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"not without my daughter" - Page 2

post #21 of 41
wow, it's interesting reading how those of who who are married to men from other ME countries get this too! hahahaha

I really don't get it too much, becos we have a similar background and religious background...BUT, I've had female professors who are, well-meaning but I guess just ignorant ask me stuff when I'd go to their offices to talk to them about a class...they just don't know. It's mostly just ignorance.

As a PP poster said...people really think Iran is 1 way when in reality it's very very different...Iran is a very very modern country...even more modern than India is (no village exists that doesnt have indoor plumbing and electricity) and most items we have here in the west are made in Iran-even Ketchup and mayo...i'm serious...not that ketchup makes a nation modern...but I'm just saying, they have the same infrustructures we do here.

And yes that film was very slanted and it upset the entire Irani and Persian community and those who knew about those communities and cultures as it demonizes the men, the culture and livining there...I've run into a few women IN Iran who moved to Iran w/ their husbands in the 90's to stay and honestly, don't mind...they enjoy their life there. So I guess it takes all kinds...but yeah that film is very slanted.
post #22 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by MommyJoia View Post
So I married a (non-Muslim) Lebanese man (almost 9 years and 2 babies ago) and I still get the, "not without my daughter" spiel from friends and family members...

My DD#1 was actually conceived in Lebanon during my 4th visit. My mom still mentions this movie to me periodically whenever I mention that I would like to move to Lebanon for a few years... My friend mentioned this movie to me last year after I took a 9 day vacation in Orlando and she expected me back in 7, she said she thought my husband packed us up and took us away to Lebanon. I actually didn't speak to her for several months after that...

My sister has been doing work in Afghanistan and she is constantly comparing the culture in Afghanistan to my husband... Lebanon is practically a European country... I'm sure that there are some people who are the way she describes, but I surly haven't met any...

I've noticed that there are several mommy's on this board that are married to Arabs or Persians and I was wondering if I'm the only one that hears about this stupid movie regularly even after years of marital bliss?
Well, Dh is from East Africa and his dad was a pastor and I got this garbage. And that's what it is, garbage. I just explained why it was ridiculous, then asked about how many women in this country live with their husbands who act like the character in this movie and stay forever and do you base all your stereotypes on moveis you watch and that pretty much ended the conversation.

Very frustrating to say the least. Honestly, if said person isn't even open to understanding why it's such a ridiculous stereotype, I don't spend more time with them than I have to. Life's too short.
post #23 of 41
Quote:
Well, Dh is from East Africa and his dad was a pastor and I got this garbage.
Sheer curiosity--which country?
My dh is the son of an itinerant Christian evangelist in Ethiopia, and dh himself had gone through Bible school and done a little pastoring. For the life of me I could never figure out why people jumped to the conclusion that our marriage would play out like the movie.
post #24 of 41
There are some countries where the "Not without my daughter" scenario (i.e., the local law does not allow married woman and children to leave the country without consent of husband / father) exists. Saudi Arabia, for example. Iran is governed by Islamic law, so perhaps this is the case there, too.

As for Lebanon . I think I would just ask my relatives to please visit or somehow get informed about the country before making such ignorant remarks about it.
post #25 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanGoddess View Post
There are some countries where the "Not without my daughter" scenario (i.e., the local law does not allow married woman and children to leave the country without consent of husband / father) exists. Saudi Arabia, for example. Iran is governed by Islamic law, so perhaps this is the case there, too.
Last I checked, this applied to children in the US as well. I had to jump through all kinds of hoops to get a passport formy daughter without her biological father's signature. Those rules are there specifically to prevent international kidnapping, not to keep foreign nationals in. The "not without my daughter scenario" was quite a fabrication and had a lot less to do with "Islamic law" than it did with the actual individuals in question (Betty Mahmoody, "Moody" Mahmoody, and their daughter).
post #26 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkish Kate View Post
Last I checked, this applied to children in the US as well. I had to jump through all kinds of hoops to get a passport formy daughter without her biological father's signature. Those rules are there specifically to prevent international kidnapping, not to keep foreign nationals in. The "not without my daughter scenario" was quite a fabrication and had a lot less to do with "Islamic law" than it did with the actual individuals in question (Betty Mahmoody, "Moody" Mahmoody, and their daughter).
My daughter's Canadian passport application also required her father's signature. However, once the passport was issued, I was and am free to travel with my daughter anywhere, without the other parent and without a note giving his consent. My understanding in Saudi is that even if you have a US passport for yourself and for your child, neither you nor the child may leave the country without your spouse's consent. That's a little different, IMHO.
post #27 of 41
yes but, if you have a passport from that country then you are much freer coming and going from it.

I have my own Iranian passport because my dh is intelligent and knows that at some point we'll be going back and forth probably seperately and so obviously i'd need my own. but, it's kind of a status symbol as most women in dh's family don't have their own...but then again, noone in his family has been abroad before anyway.
post #28 of 41
I was 23 getting the necessary documents for marriage abroad from my municipality in my country of origin (Belgium). My then future husband being Turkish/Kurdish and we would marry in Turkey and I would migrate to Turkey.
She was professional enough to get the paperwork done for me, but so unprofessional and offensive as to say ''you do realise that he can kidnap your children from you?''. Ahum, I would have rather expected a 'congratulations' or something like that???
Even considering people may find 23 very young to marry in some countries lest not make the decision to migrate for marriage with a 'foreigner', I find it totally inappropriate from anyone to make assumptions about your (in their eyes) 'wrong' decisions like you're not capable and/or totally naive, on the other hand offending you and your partner, your relationship together and almost a whole culture for their ignorance?
You'll never hear when you go and get your papers done for marrying a local that he's not a good man for you or that you'll sure divorce and/or 'he might take away your children'...
And when we went to get our marriage paperwork done at the Turkish authorities no-one warned my husband 'beware, your wife may take your children away from you to Europe'. Most were just doing their job and happy to help us getting married.

I found this one stupid and funny: My mom showed a friend of hers pictures of our trip to Istanbul. The friend was shocked with some of the pictures and exclaimed: 'Is she wearing a scarf????' (biggest fear for most people in non-muslim countries when you marry a muslim that you'll end up wearing a scarf or veil ) I was actually wearing a warm woolen shawl on a ferryboat on misty waters in November!

Please. Don't consider me having become muslim because my husband and his family are or want me too. Don't consider me having become muslim because I live in a mainly muslim country. Don't consider me wearing a scarf even if I would happen to have become muslim. Don't consider me having to wear a scarf because I sure am forced by my husband or his family. Don't consider me having to SAHM because I'm married to a muslim. (????) And even, what if I would (all or some of the above) mind your own business! Don't judge me not to be able to decide for myself who I can marry, where I can live, which religion or not I will apply, which religion I may turn to, which customs I may apply, really It's MY LIFE, isn't it?

I'm sure there's people who've been expecting me to be 'back' soon:.
Well, I am an atheist being happily married to my very leaning towards agnosticism muslim (does it matter?) husband in modern Turkey's capital.
Oh yeah, don't be shocked if you may find scarves in my cupboard, they're just self-made presents of my SILs. And really wouldn't you need one on entering a mosque if you ever have to be there, considering living in a muslim environment?

Really, most of it I've just been laughing away, mocking at them for their ignorance. Many comments we may have missed because they're probably outspoken behind our backs most of the time. Hoping people will learn something from our example that it's just not about stereotypes and prejudices and that you should really look a little further, you might actually learn or even like something/someone in spite of what it/the person originally 'represented' for you.

And I learned that people say these things without thinking. It's so often not even meant offending you it's just total ignorance. And most of the time they don't even realise they're actually doing that.
post #29 of 41
My parents were upset with me for marrying a chinese man 10 years older than myself. They felt it was a huge mistake and to this day talk about cultural barriers (cant spell that word) as if it is an inpenitrable thing that will never be understood! They also tried for a long time to compair me and my husband with various people they knew who married someone from a different culture and who it didnt work out for!
This is a little different, I know, but follow your heart and what you know to be true! You know your DH, and you will know if there is something to be concerned about or not. Nobody else does!
post #30 of 41
When one of my girlfriends and I watched that movie, "Not without my daughter", we both had the same reaction.

That Betty Mahmoody, was an ignorant woman who married a man whose religion and culture she did not understand. And according to the movie, he was not a religious man when he lived in America. He was drinking, and partying with her prior to their marriage.

Betty Mahmoody, also came across as marrying him, simply because he was a wealthy doctor. And when he was no longer interested in her, she decided it had to be because he was a Muslim/Iranian. What if she had been married to a White/Christian man who was abusive and did not want her, and dumped her, would she had blamed his religion or culture? When Scott Peterson murdered his pregnant wife Laci, there were not any books or movies written painting all White men, all Christian men as adulterous murderers.

In my opinion, I found the movie bias, racist, and Betty Mahmoody a loser, who profit from her racism and bigotry.
post #31 of 41

and our kids

What really irks me is that someday someone will say the same kind of crap about my two sweet, nurturing, lovely boys if they decide to get married. Who cares if they were born and raised in the US (well, one was born in the US, the other in Israel)? Because their father is Palestinian and they have decidedly Arab names, they must be little terrorists in the making.

And no one ever thinks about the fear that men in the situation have -- that their spouse will divorce them and keep their kids in the West. International marriage is not easy for anyone. My family and friends here in the US never think about the family and cultural sacrifices my husband made to marry me and have a family.
post #32 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by MommyJoia View Post
So I married a (non-Muslim) Lebanese man (almost 9 years and 2 babies ago) and I still get the, "not without my daughter" spiel from friends and family members...

My DD#1 was actually conceived in Lebanon during my 4th visit. My mom still mentions this movie to me periodically whenever I mention that I would like to move to Lebanon for a few years... My friend mentioned this movie to me last year after I took a 9 day vacation in Orlando and she expected me back in 7, she said she thought my husband packed us up and took us away to Lebanon. I actually didn't speak to her for several months after that...

My sister has been doing work in Afghanistan and she is constantly comparing the culture in Afghanistan to my husband... Lebanon is practically a European country... I'm sure that there are some people who are the way she describes, but I surly haven't met any...

I've noticed that there are several mommy's on this board that are married to Arabs or Persians and I was wondering if I'm the only one that hears about this stupid movie regularly even after years of marital bliss?

Yikes! I married a non-Muslim Lebanese man, and my mom brought up that movie when I announced my engagement! I didn't speak to her for weeks, and then I chewed her ear off! I couldn't believe it.

And you know, the thing is that my mom should know better. She's traveled, she's had many Lebanese friends, she lived in Egypt, for goodness sake. But I think all logic went out the window when she dreamed up the idea that I might lose my future children.

I haven't heard about the movie ever since, but I did once hear about it when I met a Peruvian woman married to a Lebanese man. She herself was worried about something like that happening and I didn't even know what to say to her. All I could think was that they must have had other issues if she didn't trust her husband not to do something like that.

ETA: I did tell her that anyone, from any culture, could potentially kidnap children in a custody fight. And they do, every day. I said that there was nothing inherent in ME cultures that should make her worry.
post #33 of 41
I got this from my dad's family before I married dh, who is an Israeli Jew. (Apparently, everyone from the Middle East is the same - Jews, Christians, Muslims, religious, secular, extremist, liberal, psychopaths, whatever.) Someone else told my mom that she should stop the wedding because once I married him I'd lose all rights and he would beat me. As offensive as that would be were he religious (as the commenter thought), he's completely secular.

My response is to give a look that says "you did NOT just say that!" and ignore them. It's complete ignorance and isn't even worth my time.
post #34 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkish Kate View Post
I got to hear all about this and a whole host of other crap when I married a Muslim Turkish man and moved to Istanbul.

Honestly, I feel for Betty Mahmoody's situation, but her personal idiocy does not warrant the denigration of an entire culture of fathers. Read the book, read what really happened to her, and then ask yourself what this woman's damage was? She made some very un-wise decisions and then had the nerve to write an opportunistic book slamming an entire culture for the mistake of marrying a man she hardly knew. She went to a foreign country with a man who was already showing signs of mental pathology, where she didn't speak the language, and then was a complete biotch to his family and denigrated their customs. I could go on and on, but this book did as much damage to "Persian-ness" as Midnight Express did to "Turkish-ness" and incidentally was ghost-authored by the same guy--chosen for his ability to turn a phrase and shock by Ms. Mahmoody's own admission.
I actually didn't finish the book (took it on vacation with me and left it somewhere), but I read enough to feel like Betty Mahmoody did herself no favors by the way she behaved from the moment she got off the plane.

My dh is Lebanese, too! And yes, I got that all the time about "Not Without My Daughter," but not really anymore. We've been married 7 years and have 2 kids. But in truth, I do know a woman who has had trouble with her Lebanese husband. My dh has a distant cousin who married some man she didn't know, moved to Lebanon to be him, and he was abusive to her. They have 2 kids, and she is not able to remove them (from what I understand) unless she gets them to the US Embassy, which she evidently could not do because her husband's family was always watching her. However, this is not unique to Lebanon. In the US, you need both parents' permission to take children out of the country (or at least to get a passport).
post #35 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasingPeace View Post
But in truth, I do know a woman who has had trouble with her Lebanese husband. My dh has a distant cousin who married some man she didn't know, moved to Lebanon to be him, and he was abusive to her. They have 2 kids, and she is not able to remove them (from what I understand) unless she gets them to the US Embassy, which she evidently could not do because her husband's family was always watching her. However, this is not unique to Lebanon. In the US, you need both parents' permission to take children out of the country (or at least to get a passport).
This is what I was trying to tell my friend. If the marriage has enough problems, or one of the spouses is abusive, it could happen to any couple with any combination of nationalities or ethnicities. When I worked as a journalist in NYC, I covered innumerable cases of one parent in the midst of a custody dispute taking their kids to another country. It's not easy getting them back, regardless of the country's laws.

Growing up in Mexico, even with passports, we weren't allowed to leave the country with my mom unless we had a signed note from my dad. If my mom had wanted to take us without his knowledge for any reason, she wouldn't have been able to.

So, yeah, it does happen. But that movie made it seem like it was something specific to Islam and Islamic countries, which of course it's not.
post #36 of 41
I get this all the time. Of course, my Dad knows Betty Mahmoudy... so that could be part of the reason.

But you know what?? DH gets this all the time from his relatives and friends (Egyptians). They're all afraid that if I divorce him, he would never see his kids again.

You could just educate them on the facts and say... You know, international child kidnapping is a concern of mine and every Mom. Lebanon is not part of the Hague Convention... nor are many other countries. But in 2004, the US and Lebanon signed a Memorandum of Understanding on the issue which will work to give both parents access to children.

You could also say that as a Lebanese Christian, the case would be heard by a Lebanese Christian court.

Or you could say... Yes, I saw the movie. I only wish there was a movie that addressed the issues of parental kidnapping and domestic violence in America. Seems like there are many more cases here... and sadly, the outcomes for the children don't seem to be that they get to live a long life with at least one parent. Too often, the kid is harmed.
post #37 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by MommyJoia View Post
It was sally Field.. she married an Iranian and everything was great until she moved to Iran... Then he started beating her so she went to the US embassy and they told her she could leave, but the daughter was the husband's property...
The movie was based on a true story.

The woman in the movie and in the story did NOT go to the American Embassy in Tehran. There has not been an American Embassy or Consulate in Iran since 1980.

The woman went to the Swiss Embassy instead, since they consider themselves neutral.

Lebanon is quite Western. Beirut was similar to Miami Beach years ago.
post #38 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by umsami View Post

You could also say that as a Lebanese Christian, the case would be heard by a Lebanese Christian court.
He's not Christian either.
post #39 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post

Lebanon is quite Western. Beirut was similar to Miami Beach years ago.
yes, I am aware of that. As I mentioned, I have been there several times.
post #40 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by MommyJoia View Post
He's not Christian either.
Just out of sheer curiosity--is he Druze? My DH is!
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