How do I get DH to start economizing? - Page 2

[SleeplessMommy]

Originally Posted by EmsMom

Life insurance, disability insurance, emergency savings, retirment. You can probably also buy life insurance on your husband (would you assume his debts if he passed? Consult a lawyer!) and disability.

Life insurance (outside of employer-provided) is a very good idea here. YOU pay the premiums on this one, as your future financial security may depend on it.

In my experience, getting control of finances starts with the person in debt sitting down and making a list of everything owed. As you mentioned, your DH has already given up. People have paid off HUGE debts, but this requires will and drastic motivation for action... ie change in lifestyle.

I am still wondering about the $250K tax bill. How much did he make from stock options? Did he make a $500K or more downpayment on the house? Did he spend $500K or more on something else? If he owned stock, it lost money, and he sold it, there should be a loss to be applied against any capital gains owed.

Does your house by any chance have a guest cottage there you can move into? Your husband has already tapped any equity in the house for other expenses and the house is underwater? Is the data center in your house for a side business or is it a hobby? Does the side business make any money?

[Smokering]

Then I see how wasteful he can be , but he won't even try to economize. He does the most expensive option for commuting- drives 25miles to the train stop closest to work and then pays $6 for parking. That's $17 per day for gas, parking and subway fare. He has to eat out everyday. He shrugs and says "It's only a $10 lunch, no big deal" That's $50/week. With commuting, he spends probably $600/month for commute and lunch alone!!! Gas outside of commute is $80/tank for his vehicle- maybe $200/month?

Have you told him this? I mean, sat him down and showed him exactly how much his little luxuries are costing annually? Could you make it more 'real' by measuring the cost against something he wants--say, 'If you gave up Starbucks and Subway for two yeas, you could afford a motorbike' or whatever? Might make things more concrete.

[rainbowmoon]

If your husband dies his pre existing debt WILL have effect on you. also it seems as if if he stopped all his excessive spending he could put a chunk toward the tax lien, no? won't they do a payment plan you can work with?

[BabyA'sMom]

GREAT IDEAS!

Yes, yes, yes, to life insurance! I've been bugging DH to check with work about the amount of life insurance and if he made me beneficiary. He keeps hemming and hawing about it, so I am definitely getting insurance out on him that I pay for.

Yep, it scares the bejesus out of me that if he dies , I owe his debts, even if they were acquired before marriage. That's why we're not putting my name on anything. If we do not have shared accounts, it would be much harder to find out we were married to begin with. Right now, in terms of creditors,only the IRS and the county recorder know we are married. I don't even officially exist at the home address. All of my mail goes to a PO Box and my DMV is registered there too. I don;t even have my voter registration updated.

No, sadly enough, DH only got $120K cash out of stock options before everything crashed and it all went to the house. It's a complicated issue, but from what I understand, he owed tax not only for the amount he got from cashed-in stock, but also owed tax on the face value of the stocks that became worthless before the end of the year. He got the stocks on discount from his job, so the difference between what he initially paid and how much they were worth at the time of purchase is considered income. Even if they are worthless by tax time, the transaction gets counted as income.

And YES to a budget. I've already told him that when I have it I would try to put more money toward his bills, but we'd need to write everything out first.
He agreed, but the money isn't going to be coming in until we get an au pair for childcare so I can go out and make money. What I make now only pays for what I'm already doing and savings for the downpayment and monthly fees for the aupair.


In his eyes, until I can come forward and help him with his monthly expenses, then it really isn't my business how he makes ends meet. It is of course my business and he knows that's part of married life.

It's a first step, but a big one.

[Azuralea]

Originally Posted by BabyA'sMom

Yep, it scares the bejesus out of me that if he dies , I owe his debts, even if they were acquired before marriage. That's why we're not putting my name on anything. If we do not have shared accounts, it would be much harder to find out we were married to begin with. Right now, in terms of creditors,only the IRS and the county recorder know we are married. I don't even officially exist at the home address. All of my mail goes to a PO Box and my DMV is registered there too. I don;t even have my voter registration updated.

I don't think the fact that your name isn't on things helps as far as married debt goes. The first thing a creditor would do is contact public records to see if there's a spouse. The fact that the IRS and county recorder know you're married is enough. Not having your name on the accounts is no protection at all. You have to operate as though all of your DH's creditors know you exist.

ETA: In fact, the fact you're not on the accounts is a risk to you, because you have no way of knowing how much debt is involved. I'm sorry, mama. Something smells fishy to me.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by BabyA'sMom

I've already told him that when I have it I would try to put more money toward his bills, but we'd need to write everything out first.
He agreed, but the money isn't going to be coming in until we get an au pair for childcare so I can go out and make money. What I make now only pays for what I'm already doing and savings for the downpayment and monthly fees for the aupair.

I don't really understand this. If you are trying to economize, why are you getting an au pair? Paying for a foreign child minder is so very expensive. There are so many less expensive childcare options... one of which would be to simply find a babysitter that can be trusted.

I agree... everything about this situation seems really fishy to me.

[gentlemango]

Babysitters run $10-15 an hour in my rural nowhere hicksville town. If they've got a big house and can't afford a nanny, an au pair makes a lotta sense. Most people around here get an au pair because it's at least 1/2 the cost of nanny or day care.


edit: I don't htink the tax situation is fishy either. There were a lot of newspaper articles in the LA Times a while back about people who got skunked by the stock options boom in Cali a few years ago. Joe Shmoe got stock as part of his job, he hung on to it to sell later, the stock tanked, but he still owed income taxes for what the stock was worth when he got it. Some people even bought houses and cars on the projected value of their stock, then lost everything when the stock failed and the banks called in the margins. It sounded pretty ugly.

The only fishy thing IMHO is that OP's husband is concealing his finances. HIS finances which are hurting THEIR family. OP needs to demand that he come clean. He's deliberately hiding information that hurts their family.

[rainbowmoon]

Originally Posted by Azuralea

I don't think the fact that your name isn't on things helps as far as married debt goes. The first thing a creditor would do is contact public records to see if there's a spouse. The fact that the IRS and county recorder know you're married is enough. Not having your name on the accounts is no protection at all. You have to operate as though all of your DH's creditors know you exist.

ETA: In fact, the fact you're not on the accounts is a risk to you, because you have no way of knowing how much debt is involved. I'm sorry, mama. Something smells fishy to me.

not only will it not matter if your name is not on things it makes it even MORE complicated with settling the estate if your DH dies! Like for instance my DH died and my name wasn't on the house deed. My mortgage company won't even give me tax info until my name is added and the probate settled, which could take years due to existing debts (so in other words I'm SOL if I need tax info regarding my house/property,etc., other than the once a year mailing
,so if it happens to get lost in the mail I'm screwed!)
it seems to me he doesn't want to change his spending habits. is he able to make more income doing side jobs himself? (sounds like his job is pretty lucrative)

[rainbowmoon]

btw I think it's pretty shitty you are expected to go to work to support his spending habits!

[SleeplessMommy]

Originally Posted by BabyA'sMom

No, sadly enough, DH only got $120K cash out of stock options before everything crashed and it all went to the house. It's a complicated issue, but from what I understand, he owed tax not only for the amount he got from cashed-in stock, but also owed tax on the face value of the stocks that became worthless before the end of the year. He got the stocks on discount from his job, so the difference between what he initially paid and how much they were worth at the time of purchase is considered income. Even if they are worthless by tax time, the transaction gets counted as income.

The amount of this tax debt is SO HUGE, it would be worthwhile to consult a tax attorney to see if the filing was done correctly and there is any way out of the bill or to reduce it. If a lawyer was consulted, find another one. (The good news on this, though, is while the IRS can put a lien on your husbands house, they can't put a lien on you... as far as I know. In the unfortunate event that your husband passes away, you can walk away from the house and be free of the debt.)

On the other hand, what happens if your husband passes away and you want to keep the house? How will the homestead exemption apply to you if your name is not on the house?

You know his SSN, right? Have you tried getting a copy of his credit report and yours? It will tell you everything.

Income earning or no, you have the right to be informed of what is going on with his financial disaster.

[1littlebit]

is it possible that dh feels so overwhelmed by the situation that he is dealing with it by completely avoiding it? my dp does this and i find that reminding him that i love him and we are in this together.. a little relationship affirmation.. goes along way you know. perhaps he is afraid you will leave him if he tells you?

Originally Posted by SleeplessMommy

Income earning or no, you have the right to be informed of what is going on with his financial disaster.

i think this is very important. i also find it unsettling that he wont shafre his financial situation with you. the "pulling you down with me" line is a load of bs... and you know that... as does he... so whats his real reason for not wanting you to know? also would your financial situation really benefit from you working? or would it benefit more from you staying home and making your job be taking care of the finances? also.. is he still charging things to credit cards? keep in mind that he wonnt tell you his financial situation so he may be doing this w/o you knowing. you said you want your baby to have a father.. which i totally understand but look really hard at your dh the way he is right now (not the way he 'could be') is this the role model you want for your dc? and is your marriage and financial situation one that you would wish on your child? if not then change things... if hes not willing to change then leave. i'm sorry if that sounds harsh ... but your dh is acting like a spoiled child... your suffering b/c of this and your dc is now and will in the future if things dont change. he seems very defensive and secretive.. never good... i would find out why b/c this could make everything clear so you could start to work it out.

you really cant 'fix' anything until your dh comes clean about his financial situation. yk?

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by velochic

I don't really understand this. If you are trying to economize, why are you getting an au pair? Paying for a foreign child minder is so very expensive. There are so many less expensive childcare options... one of which would be to simply find a babysitter that can be trusted.

I agree... everything about this situation seems really fishy to me.

Agree. I would absolutely get a copy of his credit report. I really don't think you are being told the whole story here

[Thystle]

Ok this is going to sound harsh...



You guys dont have a "partnership". You have a roomates with bene's-ship. You also sound like you are "mothering" him, because he refuses to act like a responsible adult.


You are married and dont know his financial stuff? He wont tell you? WHAT else is he hiding? If it is much worse than you think...



So after YOU bail him out for HIS mistakes that HE will NOT own up to, which puts ALL of you at risk, what then? He hasnt learned anything. The fact he hides stuff, will buy toys he does NOT need (if you dont do it for him), wont talk about it, wont try, refuses anything........... he hasnt learned SQUAT! He wont change after you bail him out, BECAUSE you bailed him out. He hasnt done anything for himself before you got together, or knowing you would be together, or knowing he would be a dad, or having a wife, or being a father, or seeing your distress.


HE WILL PUT YOU RIGHT BACK INTO THE SAME MESS AS SOON AS YOU FIX IT FOR HIM (thats a mommy thing).





You dont deserve to live like this and have your future security and that of your childs put in CRISIS like this!



You need a REAL plan. You NEED a lawyer. YOU NEED that life insurance. HUGE hidden debt like that is a HUGE suicide risk.




Stop trying to figure out how to "save" him, and "save" yourself first.


Then get into therapy, get him into therapy, then get a good tax lawyer.



Good luck, that is a rough place to be!

[mum4boys]

Originally Posted by BabyA'sMom

GREAT IDEAS!


Yep, it scares the bejesus out of me that if he dies , I owe his debts, even if they were acquired before marriage.

Actually from what you described it is not as cut and dry as that even in a community property state since you guys have been keeping everything separate including bank accounts etc.

[gentlemango]

HUGE hidden debt like that is a HUGE suicide risk.

I had a friend who took his own life because of debt he had hidden from his family. Sad. Even more tragic that it was preventable, he could have told his family and everyone would have helped him through it.