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5 yr old playing doctor! WWYD?  

post #1 of 55
Thread Starter 
my 5 yr old DSD has been molested by an older girl. she was pressured into letting the older girl lick her...

now she says a neighborhood boy was her boyfriend. at first it was ok. they kissed a couple of times and said they were getting married. it was actually kind of cute.

yesterday her 4 yr old sister came home and said that the 5 yr old was laying on top of the boy kissing him and she kissed him on his privates (he had his clothes on). this is concerning to me.

we told her it was not something she should be doing and told the other parents about it. they didnt seem too concerned. DH thinks they were just experimenting and doesnt want to make too big a deal out of it. we decided she cant go inside his house anymore and cant have boys in her room.

am i making a bigger deal out of this because of what happened with the girl? i am thinking that she wouldnt know about this stuff if she hadnt been exposed. i was much older when i decided i wanted to play house. DH said he started around her age. What is normal? is this normal? help!!!!!
post #2 of 55
I don't think that my response was MDC appropriate.
post #3 of 55
Has she had any therapy? Given her history I would say that's a must.

-Angela
post #4 of 55
For what it's worth I did similar things with my "boyfriend" at that age and I had not been abused in any way.
I do however think it's important to pay attention to how this situation makes you feel, if it feels really wrong to you then pay attention to your instincts.
post #5 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by LionessMom View Post
my 5 yr old DSD has been molested by an older girl. she was pressured into letting the older girl lick her...

now she says a neighborhood boy was her boyfriend. at first it was ok. they kissed a couple of times and said they were getting married. it was actually kind of cute.

yesterday her 4 yr old sister came home and said that the 5 yr old was laying on top of the boy kissing him and she kissed him on his privates (he had his clothes on). this is concerning to me.

we told her it was not something she should be doing and told the other parents about it. they didnt seem too concerned. DH thinks they were just experimenting and doesnt want to make too big a deal out of it. we decided she cant go inside his house anymore and cant have boys in her room.

am i making a bigger deal out of this because of what happened with the girl? i am thinking that she wouldnt know about this stuff if she hadnt been exposed. i was much older when i decided i wanted to play house. DH said he started around her age. What is normal? is this normal? help!!!!!
isn't this making a big deal out of it?

I don't know all the details but is being licked by another child really molestation? really? (I was molested by a babysitter and also played "house" with friends at that age, I would not put them in the same category though!)
post #6 of 55
Thread Starter 
the older girl was at least 10 and DSD was just 5.

the boys parents were home when she was over there. it is the only house she was allowed to go into because his mom is her babysitter. she wasnt babysitting at the time but she said they could come play. she said she keeps an eye on them, but obviously...

so she isnt allowed in their house anymore. i just wanted to know if you thought it was normal or not.

my DSDs do play outside. i can see them when they are outside and keep a close eye on them. like i said, they asked to go to their friends house.. apparently their friends mom doesnt watch close enough.
post #7 of 55
normal.
post #8 of 55
I don't think the question is "what is normal" because that is a transient thing.

The question is how do YOU feel about this and what message would you like to send to your child? Also, what is the role you have in her life, if she is your step child, are you supposed to be letting her bio parents make the decisions for her? Because if that is the case, then your options are severely limited.

Personally, talking about sex and sexuality, for us anyways, is an ongoing conversation. My son (age 1.5) knows what his penis is and how to say it. He knows that he urinates with it and we talk about that. When I wash him I say the names of all of his body parts. I also talk with him about PRIVACY and how his penis is a PRIVATE PART. When he touches his penis I say "oh, that's your penis!" in a totally calm way, as if he had brought me any other thing and I was identifying it for him.

DD is 3. She knows her body in a very intimate way. She knows she has a vulva, she says the word. She is aware that she has a urethrea which she pees out of and a vagina, which is where a baby is born. She also is aware of her clitoris. Sometimes I have happened upon her feeling it and laughing and smiling and I say, as I mentined before "oh, that's your clitoris."

Now, I also stress with her that this is her Private Part and that this is something that just belongs to her and it's just for her to see and touch and not anybody else. No shame about it, but a sense of holiness about it. I also try to model things like when her brother is on the toilet, I try to tell him to push his penis down into the toilet before doing it myself (he doesn't get it yet) I will also add, when ds is old enough he will do that himself cause that is HIS private part and it's not even for Mommy to touch.

When she is with her friends and they both have to pee outside or something like that, I stress that they are PRIVATE PARTS again and try to encourage modesty by having rules like "no leaving the house without clothes" or "no running around the house without your underwear. WHen dd asks why, I tell her because these are her private parts and we need to keep them covered for modesty because they are private. I also tell her that they are very special parts that we must keep very very clean and underwear protects them from the dirt and other grime from outside and inside that she might sit on or encounter.

When she is reaching down her pants, I tell her that she needs to wash her hands both before and after because it is an area that harvests bactera easily and we need to keep it clean.

Of course all of this is true, but I"m also trying to teach her (and my son) that these body parts aren't like the others and special care and consideration must be taken when they are involved.

dd has asked if she can touch ds's penis...washing it or changing his diaper. I've told her that she may not because it is his Private Part, that only I can do that and as soon as he is able (like she is) to deal with bathroom (washing, using the toilet) himself it will be ONLY him who can touch that.

So I suppose I would start there for a young child. But at this point, I don't think that those conversations are remiss. Espically after the molestation, which I'm not sure how you handled, but presumably a lot of this was dealt with then. About how these are Private Parts and how others can't touch them and we shouldn't touch others and only later on when there is a certain level of sophistication do we start talking about sex and then you can frame it as you wish. For our family, that will be something like, "one day, when you get married..." and it will be framed in that way. For someone with different ideas about sex that might be framed differently like "when you feel ready" but of course, I don't agree with this lifestyle choice, so I wouldn't be the one to comment on it.

At any rate, I think until that time, and certainly age 4 for a previously molested child, there would be a much more delicate way of handling the situation using words, books, pictures, and really stressing the holiness and importance of these very private parts.

So in summation, I would say, decide what your values are. And then respond accordingly, provided you have a say at all with a step child.
post #9 of 55
Sounds very normal, and I agree with a PP -- not allowing her over there or allowing boys in her room is definitely making a big deal over it. I wouldn't do that at all. Besides, girls are just as likely to play doctor/experiment with other girls.

I think you're reading too much into it. What did your husband want to do about it -- without your influence? It should be up to him, and her mom, if she's involved.
post #10 of 55
I wouldn't keep her from playing over there. 5-year-olds don't need to be constantly watched, and kids that age are curious about this kind of thing. My daughter and a friend have wanted to "look at each other's butts" before, and I've told them to keep their clothes on when they play. I have the door open and check in every so often. About a year ago, when I saw them looking at each other's butts (and that's exactly what they were doing) I asked why, and they said they wanted to see what they looked like, and I said another girls' butt looks just like yours, and they said they couldn't see their own because it was their butt. *sigh* So I said, "OK now you know what a butt looks like. Keep your clothes on from now on." I told the other mom and she just laughed.

Anyway I don't think this is a big deal. I'd just tell your daughter to keep her clothes on when she plays, to not put anything under anyone's clothes or her own, and to not touch anyone's private areas or let anyone touch her's. There isn't a power differential between two 5-year-olds so it isn't the same as someone older doing it. It's just experimentation. If you punish her for it (and punishment might not be your intent but keeping her from playing at her friend's will feel like punishment to her) it will just make her afraid to talk to you if something truly inappropriate happens again.
post #11 of 55
In preschool this happens a lot even for kids who haven't been molested. Many kids see adult movies with this type of thing or they see their parents kissing and stuff and it is really normal for them to try it out, even the ones who don't see those movies learn a lot from their friends about it and are naturally curious. I think you should talk to her about private body parts and tell her that kids can hug but not kiss each other's private body parts. I would also not let the two of them be unsupervised together for a while. It may help to get her some books about bodies and talk openly about them together so she can get through her curiosity in a way that is okay with you. When kids learn from their friends they tend to get some strange ideas about bodies.
post #12 of 55
I'm kind of wondering why she would kiss him on his "privates." Kissing on the mouth wouldn't send up red flags for me, but that might. Was that what happened when she was molested?
post #13 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowmoon View Post
isn't this making a big deal out of it?

I don't know all the details but is being licked by another child really molestation? really? (I was molested by a babysitter and also played "house" with friends at that age, I would not put them in the same category though!)
I was when I was 4 and it was a huge deal to me. it was totally humiliating and I had no idea how to react. she told me not to tell anyone because they wouldn't like me anymore. I was already shy.

I ended up doing the same kind of stuff described by you & other pp and while it always freaks the adults out, none of that haunts me the way the other girl did. I think it depends on the kids and the intent of those involved
post #14 of 55
I always thought the developmentally normal "playing doctor" was just like, comparing anatomy. And playing house was like, you pretend to be the husband, I'm the wife, now we kiss on the lips and hold hands. I didn't think any kind of graphic sexual roleplaying was usually seen as normal among 4 year olds (yeah maybe they saw it in a movie, but that's not to say they emotionally are ready to handle seeing that kind of movie in any way!) let alone oral contact. That really seems outside the range of normal to me. And especially if a child is *known* to have been molested, I don't think I'd just brush it off as meaningless.
post #15 of 55
I think you are 100% right by not allowing boys in her room and by not allowing her to go over to that house anymore.

I played "doctor" between ages 5-7 with the older neighborhood kids, as well as kids my own age. We wound up naked and probed--almost everytime I went over to play. I never told anyone. That is exactly why MY daughter will never have that opportunity--she can play at MY house in the main living area so I can keep an eye on her. That age is too curious...and things happen. Bad things.

OP--follow your guts. Keep DSD away from that house and don't let them have "private" (doors closed) play at your house! Kids aren't so innocent sometimes...it's up to us, the parents, to protect them.
post #16 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by harrietsmama View Post
I was when I was 4 and it was a huge deal to me. it was totally humiliating and I had no idea how to react. she told me not to tell anyone because they wouldn't like me anymore. I was already shy.

I ended up doing the same kind of stuff described by you & other pp and while it always freaks the adults out, none of that haunts me the way the other girl did. I think it depends on the kids and the intent of those involved
I think it's either a big deal or not. (the incident at hand of course being molested is a big deal!) the OP doesn't sound so sure either way about the current incident. the other parent isn't so concerned,correct? yet is was her DSD that was doing the kissing? it's hard to say without details and knowing the child WWYD, yk?
post #17 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
Has she had any therapy? Given her history I would say that's a must.

-Angela
:
post #18 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowmoon View Post

I don't know all the details but is being licked by another child really molestation?
Depends on exactly what body part. Certain body parts, then yes, that is molestation, definitely.
post #19 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by A&A View Post
Depends on exactly what body part. Certain body parts, then yes, that is molestation, definitely.
I think there is a fine line between experimenting and molestation. especially with children so young! don't you? but at what what age is that line drawn?
post #20 of 55
I guess that the difference between exploring and molesting depends on the age difference and how "coerced" it is.

For me, I played with some boys at preschool and in the neighborhood between age 4-6. It involved me lifting up my dress or pulling down my pants to show them. Sometimes they touched my butt and vagina. At first, I was too young to think anything of it. Later, I liked the attention and the "rush of showing" but I was a bit embarrassed that they didn't show me. I also did some mutual exploring with another girl and fondled a baby boy.

The boys were only a year or so older than me and didn't really know what they were doing, so I wasn't really traumatized, but I was a bit embarrassed when I showed but they didn't (I remember a couple times they told me that they would pull their pants down if I would but I had to go first, but they went back on their words....)
I must admit though that I did enjoy the attention when they were watching me and giggling.
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