Elimination Diets (what, why, how, when, etc.) - Page 2

[goldfawn]

and are all vitamins to be stopped during the elimination diet? I am breast feeding a 4 mo. I guess I can only take a non dairy calcium supp? does anyone know?

[Chinese Pistache]

Originally Posted by goldfawn

and are all vitamins to be stopped during the elimination diet? I am breast feeding a 4 mo. I guess I can only take a non dairy calcium supp? does anyone know?

Since a TED is meant to be short term, there shouldn't be any harm (IMO) in stopping them for 10 days or two weeks. MANY supplements contain one or more common (and less common) allergens.

[adoremybabe]

I'd like to start this ASAP. I had a 3 year old DS, a 15 mo. old nursing DD, and myself. I will try to get DH to join in but that will be nearly impossible..... even though I think that he'd truely benefit from it.

The holiday season is coming upon us fast so the sooner the better but this weekend we were just invited to a party and next weekend we are have a b day party for my mom. How do you handle public gatherings? THis weekend we could go to the party with full stomachs and bring acceptable snacks for the kids but that wouldn't work very well at my mom's party. Should I just wait until after next weekend?

DS has had excema behind his knees for over a year now and within the past week it has spread to his under arm area.

Another concern I have is depletion of minerals and vitamins. What is after 10days, we are not yet symptom free? I don't really want to stop taking my vitamins. I take a daily, vit B complex, Cal. mag. zinc, and col liver oil. Should I be giving DS a daily vit at this time to make up for lost minerals and vits? Or will the ingrediants interfere with the ED?

Oh yes, one more question. Is there a reference somewhere on the internet that will give menu ideas for the ED?

Thanks so much!

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by goldfawn

and are all vitamins to be stopped during the elimination diet? I am breast feeding a 4 mo. I guess I can only take a non dairy calcium supp? does anyone know?

I agree with CP that you should be ok to stop the vitamins for a week or two. I've found that DD has reacted to a lot of my supplements, so it can make it confusing. But when you do start introducing them back in- TwinLabs makes a good allergen-free calcium citrate + mag supplement.

Originally Posted by adoremybabe

DS has had excema behind his knees for over a year now and within the past week it has spread to his under arm area.

Another concern I have is depletion of minerals and vitamins. What is after 10days, we are not yet symptom free? I don't really want to stop taking my vitamins. I take a daily, vit B complex, Cal. mag. zinc, and col liver oil. Should I be giving DS a daily vit at this time to make up for lost minerals and vits? Or will the ingrediants interfere with the ED?

Oh yes, one more question. Is there a reference somewhere on the internet that will give menu ideas for the ED?

Thanks so much!

The eczema sounds like a great reason to do an elimination diet. If you feel like you need to continue the vitamins, I would find some that are allergen-free (although I've even had problems with "hypoallergenic" ones). This will take some research, because many vitamins are derived from allergens even if they don't say it on the bottle. Vitamin C usually = corn, Vitamin E usually = soy, etc.

There is a recipe sticky at the top of the forum which has some great food ideas in it!

Oh- and make sure to start a food journal!! That really is the most important part of the ED.

[tooticky]

This is a very helpful thread.

I emailed our multivitamin manufacturer and confirmed that, although the label says "hypoallergenic", they actually contain corn and soy. Not sure how that qualifies as hypoallergenic!

I am wondering about cod liver oil. I have been giving it to dd to help try to heal her teeth, and see that it has "natural lemon flavor" in it. Would this send up a red flag to any of you? It the Carlson for Kids brand.

[Chinese Pistache]

I'm pretty sure the vit E in carlson's is derived from soy, though my soy allergic dd tolerates it fine (she is fine with soy oil and lecithin but not protein). The lemon flavor is actually from lemon as far as I know.

[Hazelnut]

So my ds is dairy free for about a week now, and I am dairy free and gluten free. I'm starting with just dairy with him b/c I know he is getting snacks at school that are pretzels and the like, and I don't want to deal with that yet. But is it pointless, if the two are often hand in hand? Because though its' only been a week I haven't noticed a huge difference yet.

Also, despite my diet consisting of A LOT of veggies and fruit, this is so much harder than I thought. My craving for sweets has gone into overdrive, and sometimes I never feel satisfied. I also feel like I'm eating legumes a little more and eggs at breakfast and fish at dinner, so then I worry again that this is pointless if I'm not eliminating all the biggest allergens. I don't know if I am even barking up the right tree. Very frustrating, though I know it hasn't been very long.

[kortner]

I feel ya. We couldn't tell on the dairy thing for a long, long time. I guess it can take a full 2 weeks for cow's milk protein to clear your system... And for us it took some time for symptoms to appear after exposure (48-72 hours). In any case, it is a challenge. I've read around here that for true gut-healing you *should* go gluten free as well, and in our case an ELISA test confirmed my sensitivity to it and eggs among other things. I'd suggest trying to eat more of what you can eat, and esp. good fats (coconut oil, avocado) if those feel good to you. I totally understand the sugar craving too. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

[MarineMommy]

I am terrified. I really think after reading this thread the my ds3 who is nursing has some sensitivities. He has been playing with his ears since the summer, not sleeping well at all at night. I thought it might be normal for him cause he likes to nurse, but he will rub his ears in the middle of the night. I just read that recurrent ear infections is a symptom of a food allergy. Should I get the ELISA test for him? It will be tough for me to talk DH into it. He isn't too into spending money for an ND when we have free military health care. THey will probably think I'm crazy if I walk in there and say I want an allergy test done cause DS rubs his ears right?? I don't know what to do.

Help!!

[nalo]

I haven't read the whole thread but....
for my DD, her initial allergy that we knew about was dairy. It took a solid 6 weeks of me off of dairy for her poop to stop being mucousy and green. You have to keep in mind that if your LO is having GI symptoms that it can take much longer to see any change - even if the dairy has been out of the system for a while - because healing still has to happen. I ultimately cut out gluten too to speed healing which I believe it did. So....you have to be patient when looking for symptoms to go away.

[WuWei]

My understanding is that generally baby is reacting to your improperly digested proteins, due to your/his leaky gut. (so, non-IgE, but undigested proteins in your milk)

The quandary is that baby's gut doesn't tolerate whole proteins, either undigested by his system, or undigested by your system. The fact that he is reacting at all, means that his gut needs to heal. That occurs when you remove all the foods from your diet to which you are intolerant. Baby's reactions help you to identify which foods those are.

An option is to remove your breastmilk from his diet. But, then he loses all the immune benefits which only breastmilk can provide, impacting his gut health permanently.

So, net is to provide healthy breastmilk exclusively until his gut is healed (ie. your leaky gut no longer is damaging his gut). The way to do that is to remove all foods from your diet to which he is reacting. Especially, if you intend to have additional children, I'd focus on your leaky gut now, while you have his reactions as a 'guide' to heal your own gut. The longer we have leaky guts, the more food intolerances which develop, eczema and asthma and other auto-immune dysfunctions, ultimately.

A candida overgrowth goes hand-in-hand with leaky guts and leads to all kinds of immune system issues. So, a diet low in sugars, and includes natural antifungals, PLUS whole food probiotics is the path to gut health, from all of my understanding.

Btw, classical homeopathy helps the body to heal itself. Both ds and I are on classical homeopathy and we are now able to eat many of the foods to which we were previously intolerant. And dh's allergies and asthma have been resolved with classical homeopathy. So, diet isn't the only path to healing.

Most common cause of eczema is dairy intolerance.


Pat

[tooticky]

Originally Posted by MarineMommy

I am terrified. I really think after reading this thread the my ds3 who is nursing has some sensitivities. He has been playing with his ears since the summer, not sleeping well at all at night. I thought it might be normal for him cause he likes to nurse, but he will rub his ears in the middle of the night. I just read that recurrent ear infections is a symptom of a food allergy. Should I get the ELISA test for him? It will be tough for me to talk DH into it. He isn't too into spending money for an ND when we have free military health care. THey will probably think I'm crazy if I walk in there and say I want an allergy test done cause DS rubs his ears right?? I don't know what to do.

Help!!

When I was struggling with figuring out my kids' sensitivities I looked into getting them tested and came to the conclusion that doing my own testing via an elimination diet would be more reliable and provide more useful information.

I am not saying that getting an ELISA test is a bad idea, but that you may want to research whether it would be the most helpful route for your son's specific needs.

I would tend to think recurrent ear infections was probably linked to a sensitivity to dairy or soy, and that maybe trying to eliminate foods containing those two common allergens for a month or 6 weeks would be a good starting point.

[mimi!]

I've done a lot of work around food, doing an Elimination Diet for over ten years with very little healing and eating a narrow food base. What I have discovered over much time, reading, research and eating, lol, is that candida overgrowth is the cause of a poor immune system and growing allergies.
Me and the kids are reversing our allergies by building up our immune systems through this dietary protocol.
The research on this site is amazing! Based on the work of Weston A. Price and Sally Fallon, etc.

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/

[MarineMommy]

Today, I cut out wheat, dairy, eggs from my diet and ds3's diet. He is nearly 15mo and has been eating solids since around 10mo. His ear problems started in the summer when I started giving him wheat snacks like crackers and cheerios, and I started eating dairy a lot more often I don't drink milk, but am an ice cream aholic!! I use to eat yogurt and lots of cottage cheese.
I started ds2 on his probiotics again, I am wondering a good brand for the babe and me or should we all just take the same one?

THanks,

[Karamom]

This is a good thread. Can we make it a sticky?

[Chinese Pistache]

Originally Posted by Karamom

This is a good thread. Can we make it a sticky?

It's actually linked up in the "resources" sticky, about 13 posts in

[mellowjello]

I did an ED when DD was about a month old b/c of her "colic" (which we then learned was reflux) but gave up too soon... did not know how long it can take dairy to clear your system. Also everyone was telling me it probably wasn't anything I was eating, and I wanted to believe them. But if your babe has reflux symptoms I think the odds are about 50% that it is being caused by a dairy allergy/sensitivity. My DD had both reflux and allergic colitis (spinach or pesto poop).

When she was 2.5 months I tried again, this time for real. There is no history of any kind of food allergy in either my or DH's families, so I just basically cut out the big 8 allergens and also all reflux-triggers (citrus, berries, chocolate, caffeine, tomato, etc, basically acidic foods, and spices). I think I started with turkey, lamb, rice, zucchini, carrot, spinach, chard, olive oil, herbal tea, coconut milk, and avocado. I very slowly added in foods. She was starting solids (6 months) so this meant that once every two weeks, either she or I could start a new food. Allergist said to introduce only every 1-2 wks and I was being *very* conservative. I still wasn't feeling like I had a baseline. Reflux still an issue, very "needy", horrible sleeper, very sensitive, etc. I kind of gave up getting a good baseline and just kept adding things, increasing to every week, because I needed the variety for my morale.

A few things were challenging for me:
1) Her reflux symptoms got better and her poop finally did look more normal (she felt slightly better at 4.5 months but still had significant reflux and poops didn't really look normal until about 6 months of age) but she never really was healthy enough for me to feel like I had a good baseline. So I felt really uncertain about adding foods back in without having a baseline, but decided to go ahead since we needed the nutrition, and figuring I would look to see if she got worse. This was super tricky with teething, etc. and I stressed out a lot about what I was eating. Not fun.

2) What the heck do you eat? I had to give up on the idea of what I thought a normal meal was. Ground turkey and zucchini for breakfast? Yum! This was hard because of the emotional/ritual/social aspect of food. You have to swtich gears - food is now just fuel. It is practical. DH and I did not cook and eat together anymore. He was semi-supportive but also kind of annoyed by the whole thing. Thought it was a control issue for me (was it?). This was isolating.

3) Similar to above, difficult at social events. Brought my own food and tried to keep explainations simple. I felt judged, again, as being either controlling or neurotic. You have to believe in what you are doing. They don't know what it's like for your babe.

4) My own symptoms came hugely into play. With the ED I was eating a LOT of rice products. I drank a container of rice milk a day, and LOTS of rice bread, and LOTS of cake made with rice flour. I figured it was good to have things I liked to keep up the morale. And this probably would have been fine if I didn't develop hypoglycemic symptoms! Looking back, I can see I have had mild hypoglycemia all my life and had some "red flags" during pregnancy (unquenchable thirst - my doc said I was overhydrating - peeing every hour). While on the ED I started to have heart palpitations, shortness of breath, severe headaches, irritability and **RAGE**, weakness, dizzyness, nausea, severe thirst/cottonmouth. (All testing for gest. diabetes and diabetes after her birth came back normal.) I also learned we had a candida problem. So I tried to cut out sugar, fruits were a problem for awhile, tried low glycemic grains. This compounded the "what do you eat" problem and was very very difficult (understatement!!!). It was confusing -- is this food a problem for me? a problem for DD? is it a problem for DD because it is a problem for me (ie my irritability causing her to be more anxious/wake more)? Her obvious physical reactions to foods were mild mostly, after taking out the dairy. Just mild excema. But she did get bad rashes from shrimp, garbanzo bean, and egg (all from my diet). But mostly we were looking at behavior and sleep patterns. It felt like nothing made a difference.

By the time she was 13 months I decided to try dairy again. She seemed fine with it in my diet for 3 weeks, then I tried to give it to her directly. Gulped it down at first but then refused. Started noticing arching, cramping, night waking so stopped all dairy.

Then I started her on some bread and she loved it. Said "bread, bread, bread" all the time and went ballistic if she saw some and didn't get any. We got a bread maker and started making our own. I was using some barley flour and some wheat flour, so adding extra gluten to make up for what the barley flour didn't have. Then I started noticing headaches, thirst, fatigue, depression, so stopped all gluten for both of us. This seemed to help her sleep and made me feel tons better. She does not go psycho around bread anymore.

Now that I know more and look back, I think gluten was an issue (at least for me) from the beginning because I was craving and would binge on breads, cakes, muffins. (Normally my craving is dairy, but I was surprised I didn't really crave it as much as I thought I would.) And dairy was and still is obviously an issue, too. This was what an ND told me in the beginning, (most likely culprits are dairy and gluten) but I felt like I had to go through the whole ED thing. I didn't want to believe it about gluten, because that cuts out so many foods. Partly due to normal development and partly due to being off diary and gluten, DD is starting to sleep better now. We are weaning her off her reflux meds as well and she is doing OK so far (knock on wood).

My advice:
1) Get on a good, I mean **GOOD** multivitamin. I was taking one from the drugstore and when I switched to the one I got from my ND, my heart palpitations and shortness of breath went away.
2) Know your own situation and don't eliminate more than you most likely have to. Get guidance. Looking back it is obvious to me that ours is a classic "leaky gut" story so taking out the Big 8 plus doing all the heal your gut things would have been the best course for us. I went too far, and too long, keeping things out of my diet, because I didn't really know what to do.
3) Get on a good probiotic, both of you. DD's GI specialist likes VSL (but it's by prescription only).
4) Reach out to others in forums like this. They are the only people who are going to understand you and know what you're going through, and not tell you that you are crazy.
5) As soon as you can, add in onions, garlic, celery, carrot, thyme, oregano, sage, etc. This opens up a lot of recipes. (Plus onion, oregano, and garlic are antifungals if you are fighting candida.) I ate a TON of avocados, and also am sooooooo thankful for a product called Coconut Bliss, the best ice cream substitute I have found. Bake special treats for yourself and freeze them in individual portion sizes so you have something to grab. Keep chopped veggies in tupperwares in the fridge. If you have support, ask someone to do this for you. I found it hard to feed myself well during the day with a high needs baby and would often not eat well until I could get her down to sleep, which *REALLY* wore me down and made me more overwhelmed/depressed. I know it was stupid to jeopardize my health so much by restricting my diet but I was desperate to make my DD feel better.

This has been hands down the hardest thing I've ever done. I would never have radically altered my diet like this if not for DD. This whole experience (with a high needs babe) has almost torn my marriage apart. But now, in fact, we are stronger than before. And going through this has uncovered some of my own mystery health issues. I have found that off dairy, gluten, and sugar, many physical and emotional ailments have gone away. I used to just want to hide under the covers - I thought that was just my personality - but now I feel more energetic, more vital. I am off antidepressants. How would I have otherwise found this out? I probably would not have. I have learned SO MUCH about food, health, alternative medicine, parenting, my own strength. Like others have said, this is not only a quest for better health but a spiritual journey as well. I am the better for it. Do I still want the cookie? Heck ya!!!! But I don't crave it, I am OK now without it.

Good luck and blessings to you.

[kjbrown92]

What a hard journey, but a rewarding one for you. I went off dairy and gluten with my kids and I was amazed when MY anxiety and back pain went away. I thought "how bizarre" but would I have ever known if my kids didn't have their food intolerances? It's amazing. I hope that we're all that healing path now and someda we might be able to eat everything again.

[Hazelnut]

We had my 3.5 yo son tested to see b/c he has asthma, and it came back that he's allergic to wheat, egg, and milk. The ped barely dicussed the results with me, but he knows I'm headed to an allergist, so I have to wait to get in there. How exact are these blood tests? I'm so confused. I've never ever noticed any reaction after eating these foods, and yet I was obviously suspicious b/c I was interested in getting him tested all along b/c of the asthma and b/c of my history of general allergies (just to dust, mold, etc. though I'll probably get tested too). We went a whopping two weeks dairy and gluten free, but he's in preschool two days a week and has a snack there sometimes that is often crackers, so I'm guessing that may have made it moot? I thought if we were 99% free it still might make a difference. At any rate, I'm waiting on further testing with an allergist before we go 100% and in that case I'll send him to preschool with rice cakes.

I thought I noticed some differences in behavior with my older son, but it was hard to tell, and again there were school snacks and we didn't do it more than two weeks. He was 100% dairy free the entire time, but I know two weeks isn't enough. It might sound stupid to stop after two weeks, but I finally just felt like I want to get to the allergist before I am sending them off to school with notes and really not relenting. Are certain foods more likely to effect behavior? That was my other inclination for trying an ED He can be so incredibly oppositional, even when rested, additive and articficial food free, loved, etc. Doesn't match any BD symptoms, just really really difficult and I have to just wonder if it's something he's eating, beyond just being a persistent little fellow.

I don't know how we can go without bread, so I think making bread will be a challenge. I feel like I spent more on food too, but I'm not sure how exactly b/c the rice products (milk, pasta) at trader joe's were not that expensive. What exactly do you snack on? We got a little tired of ricecakes with sunflower butter, dried fruit, fruit, nuts. At any rate I may have to start from scratch, but I think our little dry run will make it easier.

[kjbrown92]

It is moot if it's not 100%. And if your older son's issues are behavioral, I doubt it will show up on an allergy test. It's much more likely to be an intolerance, and you'll have to do an elimination to figure out the foods. We're gluten free, soy free, corn free, dairy free, (and more) and we still find an amazing array of foods to eat. But yes, it is more expensive.

Rice pasta
I make muffins, bread, dumplings etc.
candied almonds
nuts
rice cakes with peanut butter
cold cereal (Koala Crisps, Rice Chex, Puffed Millet)
hot cereal (Cream of Rice, Creamy Buckwheat cereal)
soups, stews

And just in case it's not one of the foods you're trying, start a food journal and note everything they eat and any symptoms (gluten and soy are the big triggers for DS's behavioral issues, milk causes him to wet the bed, eggs make him cry the next day, etc.).