So my best friend has to pick ONE vaccine for her ds...

[xmasbaby7]

My best friend and I share the same views on vaccinations. She has done extensive research and feels they are unnecessary for her son at this time. He is 9 months, EBF the first 6 months, still nursing strong, and has been very healthy and unvaxed so far.

She and her DH are fighting over this to the point that she is considering yielding to ONE vaccine so that they can help heal the chasm this has become in their marriage.

Although I don't vaccinate, I personally believe that a single vaccine has a far lower risk of adverse reactions for this robust little boy than his parents surviving in their marriage long-term if no compromise is made. I fully support her decision.

She thinks the one vax she would do is Hib because it is the least junky: no aluminum, fewer preservatives.

I was thinking the one vax she also could consider is the single measles vax, because if you are going to aim for "protection", aim for a disease he actually has a chance of encountering. Hib is so dang rare, and I am uncomfortable with the gut flora implications.

I don't vax and have gone to DC with this friend to lobby our congressmen on safer vaccinations for all. We don't need more non-vaxing advice. We get it.

I imagine there are other moms who have made rational decisions similar to this one who tried to identify the most benign vaccine.

Any opinions to share and why?

[Shelsi]

Well for one I don't think that it will heal her marriage in any way.

However if I had to do just ONE vaccine I think I'd probably do polio. It has a long history and doesn't have as many associated side effects as other vaxes IMO.

[captain crunchy]

I have an opinion. Your friend should consider her decision and whether she would be able to live with herself in making it. I personally don't believe it will heal anything. How in the world does she think compromising a deeply held belief at the expense of her baby son and at the pressure of her partner something that is going to have *healing* energy?

I see it only causing resentment, regret, pain, and potentially... a very sick young baby who's health is being used as a sacrifice to keep peace.

There is no way I would want to be married to someone who asked me to do something to my child that I was adamantly against. You can't *un*vaccinate, whereas you can always make that choice when the child is older and his immune system is much stronger than a 9 month old infant's.

So, there ya go. I recommend no vaccines and you friend doesn't *have* to pick anything.

Furthermore, if her husband is so adamant about vaccines, how in the *world* would getting a child *one* help anything? It just opens the floodgates to one more, then one more.... unless he wants her to choose one to somehow prove her alligiance to the marriage or something???... which, don't get me started on that...

Sorry, not much help.

ETA: I just re-read your OP and no, this is not a "rational" decision imo. I know this is your best friend and you are sympathetic to her and biased toward her... I get that... but no, it is not rational imo to be faced with an either/or decision of injecting your child with (imo) poison or lose your partner.

[xmasbaby7]

It would be great if you reserved your opinions about their relationship.

Without being in that couple, one can't make judgements. Perhaps the process alone of compromise is all that is needed, and her DH backs off about them while they are in the middle of their solution.

[captain crunchy]

I don't know their relationship I am just going by my life experience and the context clues. Someone is willing to sacrifice something they care extremely deeply about by making a choice about their infant that could have potentially harmful consequences in order to create peace with their spouse. Then I gave my opinion of that and I stand by that.

[nwmamas]

Assuming they've fought about this and that she's presented DH with evidence, stats, and all that jazz, which one does he want? If she's willing to yield for the sake of compromise, I say yield to DH's research and trust him to make this parenting choice himself.

[Britishmum]

I don't think we can judge how sensible this is for her to do, as we do not know them and the context.

The way I read it, she feels that for the good of their relationship she needs to compromise with her husband, not that he has demanded one vaccine - any old one - in order to satisfy him. I presume she wants to research, and go to him and suggest that she has heard his concerns and agrees that x vaccine is more vital than the others, so she will bend for her child to have this one. Now, her choice would not be the vaccine that she thinks is most vital, but the one that she thinks is least dangerous, but she won't put it to him like that.

Not really open and honest, but sometimes that's the reality of some people's lives. I know a lot of people who skirt around the vaccine issue by taking their children to wbv themselves and just not raising the issue with their dp. Again, not ideal, but we don't live in an ideal world where every couple agrees on every issue. Sometimes we have to make choices that are less than ideal, and nobody else can judge what is better except those in the situation.

If this is the case, and he is not just being controlling but is genuinely concerned and wanting to reach a place where they both feel comfortable, I can see it working, and I have sympathy for her in her situation.

There are many very reasonable dps out there who don't feel comfortable with non-vaxing, and imo they have a right to be heard. Their argument would be that they couldn't forgive themselves if their child died or suffered damage from a disease, which is the same as the OPs friend arguing that she couldnt forgive herself if her child died or suffered damage from a vaccine. I might think that the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease, but that is a matter of opinion, and each couple has to work their way around it as best they can.

The thought of choosing between my dp and my child having a vaccine sends shivers down my spine, but I have to say that I'd research, do all I could to minimize the risk of damage, then let my child have the shot. Then pray. A lot. But I'm thinking in my own context, of a marriage to a good man and a wonderful father. I have no idea of this mother's reality, so it's hard to comment, except that I hope she finds good info out there and that it works out for her.

[Ruthla]

Also keep in mind that, should she and her DH split up, the father could potentially take the baby to the ped alone and give a whole bunch of vaccines at once, or this could even become an issue to bring up in court, where a complete stranger (the judge) could end up making this decision for her.

There is a certain risk in "putting her foot down and allowing no vaccines in spite of what Daddy says" if there's hope of fixing the marraige with compromise. I don't know if the compromise will fix the marriage or not, if her "giving in" will end up weakening her vaccine position in the end- there are just so many factors to consider here.

I wonder if her DH would be amenable to a different kind of compromise, such as "we'll vaccinate starting at age 2" (or even age 1, and hold off a few more months) rather than starting on vaccines RIGHT NOW. It's certainly an option for her to consider. Also, has HE done any kind of vaccine research? I feel diffently about "he did the research and came to different conclusions than her" vs "she did all the research and he's just giving into external pressure and refuses to read anything."

Whoever recomended starting with Measles- I don't think they even give that one to 9mos. That one's not an option yet. I'd probably start with the Polio vaccine- I haven't heard of too many problems with that one in particular, it's readily available as a single vaccine, and it seems to be one of the "scariest" illnesses to actually contract.

[xmasbaby7]

Thanks for all of the input.

She wouldn't give the measles now, of course, but wait until 18 months to age 2, which buys more time, of course, for more news stories to come out questioning vaccine safety.

Unfortunately, she has done all of the reading, and he is less inclined. He wants to protect his child from diseases like measles and whooping cough, and she doesn't fear those diseases. He is not pressuring the entire schedule. He just feels like some must have some benefit. He's just afraid, like many new parents, of doing the wrong thing.

[eightiesbabeyo]

IF we do any vaxing, it will be after DD is at least 2 years old (to give time for the blood brain barrier to form), and we'd probably do the polio vax. This is what our dr has recommended if we were to choose to do any (she never vaccinated any of her children, so she's pretty educated in all the reasons not to vax).

[MCKH]

For what it's worth, I asked my pediatrician a similar question - "We are only going to get one vaccine at a time, which one do you want it to be?" He said that far and away his choice was to get the DTaP for the whooping cough protection.

[alegna]

This

Originally Posted by Shelsi

Well for one I don't think that it will heal her marriage in any way.

However if I had to do just ONE vaccine I think I'd probably do polio. It has a long history and doesn't have as many associated side effects as other vaxes IMO.

And this.

Originally Posted by nwmamas

Assuming they've fought about this and that she's presented DH with evidence, stats, and all that jazz, which one does he want? If she's willing to yield for the sake of compromise, I say yield to DH's research and trust him to make this parenting choice himself.

I might be inclined to make him SELL ME on one...

BUT, if the decision were mine, I would do IPV. From my reading it seems to be the least likely to cause a reaction of any sort. Of course, it is also probably entirely useless but she's not aiming for usefulness, she's aiming for peace.

-Angela

[Shelsi]

Originally Posted by alegna

BUT, if the decision were mine, I would do IPV. From my reading it seems to be the least likely to cause a reaction of any sort. Of course, it is also probably entirely useless but she's not aiming for usefulness, she's aiming for peace.

-Angela

It could be useful if they do some overseas travel to certain countries. India comes to mind. But yeah, here in the US, pretty darn useless.

IMO though if one parent is worried about their child's safety and does a bunch of research then it is up to other parent to either trust their partner's research or to research it themselves and then they can come to a conclusion together hopefully. It's irresponsible to base a decision like this on fear alone.

[Plummeting]

Originally Posted by xmasbaby7

She thinks the one vax she would do is Hib because it is the least junky: no aluminum, fewer preservatives.

I was thinking the one vax she also could consider is the single measles vax, because if you are going to aim for "protection", aim for a disease he actually has a chance of encountering. Hib is so dang rare, and I am uncomfortable with the gut flora implications.

Hib is a LOT more common in the US than measles, plus it has a much lower risk of adverse reactions, so using the "chance of encountering" logic, HIB wins, hands down. Personally, I'd do IPV. I think it's pretty harmless and it's a big disease her DH might really fear.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by Shelsi

It could be useful if they do some overseas travel to certain countries. India comes to mind. But yeah, here in the US, pretty darn useless.

Except that the efficacy of the IPV has never been tested, much less proven. I rather suspect it doesn't really work.

-Angela

[forestrymom]

We don't vax. Has she shown him the Dr. Sears book? Or the Dr. Cave book? Has she attempted to educate him on the dangers? Or is he willing to listen?

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by xmasbaby7

Unfortunately, she has done all of the reading, and he is less inclined. He wants to protect his child from diseases like measles and whooping cough, and she doesn't fear those diseases. He is not pressuring the entire schedule. He just feels like some must have some benefit. He's just afraid, like many new parents, of doing the wrong thing.

I've been there with vaccinations and homebirth with dh; the fights got very ugly. The solution is not to "give just one" because it will not end there, particularly when the other partner (almost always the father) has not done the research.

I basically said, "you cannot expect me to allow something I have found to be harmful to our child if you cannot be bothered to do the same research I have." I did not put my foot down until my second child (unfortunately), but dh did his own research and came to agree with me. He needs to do the research and justify the use of these prophylactic drugs to her. The "rational" thing to do is to research the vaccines and diseases to determine which, if any, are necessary, not to put on a blindfold and play "enie, meany, miney, moe" with their child's health.

Here is a list of questions that they should answer together for each vaccine/disease:


1. Name of the disease
2. Description of the disease
3. Length of time from initial infection to end of all symptoms
4. Infectious period
5. Normal symptoms of the disease
6. Known serious consequences of the disease
7. Proportion of persons infected developing serious consequences
8. Transmission route of the disease
9. Prevalence of the disease
10. Treatments of the disease and efficacy of those treatments
11. Relevant research about the disease
12. Name of the vaccine
13. Company that makes the vaccine
14. Contents of the vaccine
14A. The significance of whether or not the vaccine is live
15. History of development of the vaccine
16. Known side-effects of the vaccine and rate of incidence of those side-effects
17. Possible side-effects not yet acknowledged by the vaccine maker
18. Relevant research into the vaccine
19. How effective is the vaccine at preventing the disease?
20.What is the vaccine meant to do? (Many vaccines are not meant to prevent infection or transmission).
21.Number of cases reported each year.
22.Number of deaths reported each year from the vaccine and natural disease.

Here are some sources to help you out:

Inside Vaccines

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_wk.html (download the current issue)
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...k-chapters.htm
http://vaers.hhs.gov/pdf/PackageInserts.pdf
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...40451107552&q=
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...87981735&hl=en
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...ses&deaths.pdf

Once they have been through this list they will have the answer to "which one".

[laralee16]

I would do hib, or polio.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by forestrymom

This just isn't fair. Some people believe that vaccinations are helpful. I am sure he feels as strongly about vax'ing as she does about not. He probably thinks she is the abuser. I don't think this is the right attitude. While I doubt this will heal their marriage, lets give them the benefit of the doubt.

The problem is that he is ONLY feeling, not thinking. A parent who cannot be bothered to research has no right to dictate to the parent who has.

[ktmama]

It seems to me that if it was really an issue of the baby's health, that the father would come to the mother with a compelling, well-researched argument for getting this vax or that one. But to make her pick one, ANY one, demonstrates that the issue is more about his need to control the situation, not the health and well-being of their baby. If I were her friend, I would recommend that she insist that he come to HER with a recommendation and then they would discuss all of the research.