BCG Tuberculosis vaccine at birth

[Nimm2]

Does anyone have a compiled list of reasons to refuse the BCG Tuberculosis vaccine given at birth?

I am an expat in a country where BCG Tuberculosis vaccine is given to all babies at birth, and local women do not ask any questions, so I need some reasons to explain to people why I do not want this to be given at birth.

[Mirzam]

Can't you just say you don't want it? My eldest was born in Hong Kong and she unfortunately got a birth dose of BCG (as well as HepB) and they didn't even tell me she had been given it. I am sure I could have refused it though, had I known at the time. Especially considering I got BCG as a teen and as a result had chronic sore throats and glandular issues right up until my mid twenties.

[Gitti]

Is the reason that the vaccine actually causes more TB than not vaccinating, good enough? Because that is fact.

There was only one study done ever where a huge group of vaccinated community was compared to an unvaccinated group. The vaccine used was the BCG vax.

The outcome - avoid that vaccine at all costs.

Since then the vaccine manufacturers have not tested any other vaccines in that manner.

[MissRubyandKen]

Here is the CDC link with info on TB. I agree with pp though. I would research the laws surrounding vaccinations and just decline it, never letting baby out of a family member's site. Right on the front TB page the CDC states you can still contract TB even if vaccinated(of course) and it can make the TB test inconclusive. Two good reasons right there imo. It is a live bacteria vaccine, studies haven't demonstrated efficacy, and one study showed increased TB. I can't find the ingredients list, but I'm sure there are some good reasons not to in there as well.

[Gitti]

Besides, once you are vaccinated with BCG, you are always TB positive. It is a problem when you move to another country and get tested for entry or go into a job market where they do health screening.

[Emmeline II]

I might say that you are only doing CDC recommended vaccines and either homebirth or not let your baby out of your or your dp sight EVER!!!!!!!!

[Nimm2]

Hello thanks for the suggestions so far. Any more links to studies to back up what was said would be most helpful, too. Especially that it causes more TB rather than preventing it.

I am planning/hoping to give birth at home, but I need good arguments in case of a transfer and even if there is no transfer for the actual birth because I still have to debate this with people around me to defend my point of view, including partner etc ... who will pressure me to bring in the baby immediately even if I manage to get away to stay home for the birth.

And if I don't start to make my point right away, it would happen like it did for uccomama, they would just give Hep B and BCG without asking, cause it's normal and they do not even assume anyone would reject it, it's not the culture here to refuse or question or reject anything that a doctor does.

I face uneducated opinions like "Everyone does it, you have to do it, no questions asked, if you don't you are crazy and stupid, it's dangerous, why can't you just do it like everyone else does." And unless I have some real hard facts and evidence, studies, numbers, the arguing will go nowhere and won't stop and will stress me out.

I plan to say I will do it later, but not right at birth, but it won't be good enough.

I am terribly busy with collecting facts, studies and evidence to continuously explain and defend why I like to try and stay home for the birth (nobody does it here), so I can't find the time to do all the research for the whole vaccination issue, too, so I am very happy about some spoonfed links at the moment.

[Gitti]

What I had posted came from a book called Vaccines, the business based on fear by Dr. Buchwald. (Impfung, das Geschäft mit der Angst)

[MamaRabbit]

Same country as you. My first was a hospital birth and I said no vaccines. Also definitely made sure she never went out of my sight because they were so BCG happy.

The main point that seemed to stick in the staff's brains was that the BCG made a child look TB positive and that would cause many problems later when returning to my home country.

[Nimm2]

Originally Posted by MamaRabbit

Same country as you. My first was a hospital birth and I said no vaccines. Also definitely made sure she never went out of my sight because they were so BCG happy.

The main point that seemed to stick in the staff's brains was that the BCG made a child look TB positive and that would cause many problems later when returning to my home country.

Yes, thank you, I know about that and also thought that would be a good reason to explain to them. "If you give my baby BCG, then he / she will have problems in my country later because people will think he has got TB when he / she tests positive for it, for example when applying for certain jobs or even immigration procedures".

For Hep B I also have all my arguments covered.

[Nimm2]

Update: I refused BCG and Hep B vaccines at birth.

Now the pediatritian told me that I should really do the BCG, but that he understands that I don't want the Hep B and he is ok with that.

I am really not sure what to do, and of course my boyfriend says the baby needs to be vaccinated "because everyone does it". Not possible to have any discussion with him about it.

If I was not living in Thailand, I would not consider it, but there is a lot of TB here.
Some studies show that the vaccine offers some protection and especially for the TB that affects the brain. The doctor told me the same, he asked me why I don't want it and I told him because even if you are vaccinated, you can still get TB that affects the lungs, he said yes but it also protects against the type you get in the brain and told me about a case he had of a child who caught that.

TB is treatable but it seems to involve taking drugs for 6 months.

I am worried if I think about us taking the baby to my boyfriends village where hundreds of people will come close to the baby to look, speak, cough into his face ... it just seems easy to catch and many people in Thailand have TB.

MamaRabbit, have you given any vaccines considering you live in Thailand as well?

[MamaRabbit]

We have done ZERO vaccines and I know people think we're crazy. I figure if my children are breastfed and I do as best as I can to keep their immune systems up then they should do OK even if they do catch something "preventable". We found a wonderful pediatrician in Bangkok who is totally supportive of our decisions.

As for TB, it's treatable. The vaccine is a scary one... look up what's in it!

And your doctor of course will quote the ONE incident that happened. I guarantee there were way more reactions to that vaccine than the one incident.

I haved weighed the risks and decided what's best for my family. You'll have to do the same. If I lived in a heavy TB area would I do TB? Still probably not.

[Nimm2]

I found those ingredients:

live attenuated strain of Mycobacterium bovis
monosodium glutamate (MSG), its a food additive
and polysorbate 80 (Tween-80), also a food additive

Did you find any other ingredient?

[MamaRabbit]

so a live TB virus from cattle,
MSG which can be deadly for some people,
and an icky food additive

It also has lactose (a very common allergen)

Here is one of the brands... no thank you!

TheraCysÒ - BCG Live (Intravesical) is a freeze-dried preparation made from the Connaught strain of Bacillus Calmette and Guerin, which is an attenuated strain of Mycobacterium bovis.

The BCG organisms in the product are grown on media containing potatoes, glycerine, asparagine, citric acid, potassium phosphate, magnesium sulfate, ferric ammonium citrate, calcium chloride, copper sulfate and zinc sulfate. Monosodium glutamate is added to the BCG organisms prior to freeze-drying.

Each vial of TheraCysÒ contains 81 mg of freeze-dried BCG. Prior to use, each vial is reconstituted with the accompanying diluent (3 mL), which contains sodium chloride, sodium phosphate and Tween 80. Neither the freeze-dried BCG nor the diluent contain preservative.

One dose of TheraCysÒ consists ofone 81 mg vial ofreconstituted material further diluted in 50 mL sterile, preservative-free saline. The BCG organisms are viable upon reconstitution. In vitro potency is determined by an assay of the number of colonies grown on solid medium. The reconstituted product contains 10.5 ± 8.7 x 108 colony forming units (CFU) per vial when resuspended in the diluent provided.