a lying and indignant eight year old

[forrestguy]

My son has started lying quite a bit. That's not what's really bugging me, though. It's the fact that he denies that he's lying and, in fact, gets very indignant about it. Like, how could I DARE to accuse him of lying. At first I would believe him when he would say he wasn't lying, but I have caught him in lies over and over again. And, still, as he's being caught he's acting offended that I'm saying he's lying. And then he's goes on and on about wanting me to take back that I said he's lying. The lying is one thing, but this attempt at manipulation is what's really getting to me. BTW, I never say he's lying unless I'm absolutely sure. Like, he tells me he brushed his teeth and the toothbrush has not moved, is not wet, and the toothpaste hasn't been squeezed. Or that he's washed his hands and there is absolutely no water in the sink.
Help?

[j924]

My dd now nine is just coming to an end of this phase. You are going to want to bang your head against a wall repeatedly but just let it go. Trust me on this no matter how much evidence you come up with you will not win. You know when your child is just learning to walk and you have to make the whole house child proof? Think of it in these terms again but make your relationship lie proof. With the teeth, instead of "Did you brush your teeth" it is "I see your toothbrush is dry let's brush our teeth and then we'll head out". If you see a story is taking a run into the imaginary change the subject.

Also during this time we did a lot of family times on honesty, trust etc. This was with all the kids so she never felt singled out. It took a very long time but like with everything else it did pass or is close to passing.

Is your ds very bright? None of my other kids had the same problem with this but this dd tends to be very smart and incredibly intense. So it seemed par for the course with her.

[forrestguy]

Yes! He's so smart and very intense, even a little bit nervous, if that's the right word. Kind of fidgity, maybe. That's nice to hear it's a phase. I'll try to let it go and not take it too seriously.

[EnviroBecca]

I agree, drop the accusations of lying (especially, stop using that word, because it's putting him on the defensive so he's not really listening to you or thinking about his behavior), don't test him (by asking if he did something when you can see that he didn't), and focus on what you see and what needs to be done. Maybe even put on a detective act: "Hmmm, the sink tests negative for water droplets."

I have found with people of all ages that REPEATEDLY pointing out their communication problem leads to lengthy drama about the communication, while the real issues (brushing teeth, etc.) get neglected. I know I find it irritating when someone does it to me! Of course you have a right to be told the truth (or be spoken to in a pleasant tone, or not be interrupted), but when someone is doing it over and over after you've explained why you don't like it, that means he's having trouble avoiding it. Resist debates about whether or not he lied, and steer the conversation to what needs to happen next.

[anywaybecause]

Originally Posted by EnviroBecca

I have found with people of all ages that REPEATEDLY pointing out their communication problem leads to lengthy drama about the communication, while the real issues (brushing teeth, etc.) get neglected.

Not sure I entirely agree about this part-- it seems to me that the issue is actually the lying, not whatever was lied about. But that just may be me coming from a different angle. I'm on vacation this week. lalalala

I do agree, though, that the more you get distracted by the lie in the heat of the moment, the more off-track you get wrt whatever you essentially want done. Deal with the habit of lying separately from the individual task being lied about.

I can't help but think, though, that if you start pointing out that there's no water in the sink or on the brush, or that the toothpaste hasn't been squeezed, etc., that *could* lead to more elaborate forms of deception (crumple the toothpaste tube, splash some water around the sink & wet the brush, etc. and the "evidence" says he did brush his teeth.) Why not do something like say, "Well, humor me and do it again" as you stand in the doorway (or swap out the towels, clean the toilet, change the paper roll, etc.) That way, the teeth get brushed, and you can discuss the lying later, when you can sit ds down and get more focused attention from him.

[forrestguy]

Thanks for the reminder. I have done that before and it seems like if I don't make it a big deal then it doesn't become a big deal. He just does it.