4 yo Bedtime Woes

[JuniperMama]

DS turned 4 yesterday! :

He's a completely awesome kidlet and I am loving this age.

The only thing is - we're having a terrible time with bedtime.

His evening routine looks like this:
* Between 5 and 6pm: home from preschool
* Get home and have a little bit of down time, snack and a 20 minute scholastic book video and then plays with us until about 7.
* 7pm dinner
* After dinner we play some more and/or have a bath
* 8:15 or 8:30: start getting ready for bed. PJs, 2 stories, brush teeth, another story told in the dark, and then lights out between 8:45 and 9:00

He used to just crash and go right to sleep. Lately however, he's getting up at least 3 times after lights out. He wants a drink. He wants to go potty. He "has to tell you something" (which is always some random thing he makes up on the spot.) He just fights and fights going to sleep. We gave up binkies with this birthday so he's adjusting to not having one and I'm sure that's a bit of the challenge but he's also just not going to bed which started before he stopped having binkies.

He does still really seem to need naps. He goes down easily at preschool and they feel that if he's zonking out he must need it. I do not want to take naps away if we can help it. Especially because I work and so get most of my time with him in the evenings.

Any thoughts on how we can help him get to sleep easier at night? We put him down last night at 9 and were still working with him at 11.

Thanks.

[milehighmonkeys]

We find this process has to be very quiet. In other words, the more we talk to her about going back to bed, the more she comes out. It's hard to do, but if they really don't need anything, there's really nothing to talk about anyhow. We just keep returning her to bed quietly. It stops being fun for them after a while and they just go to sleep. It will get better, just don't let it get to you.

Also, we do allow DD to have books in bed with her. She reads until she's sleepy and then just goes to sleep. It keeps her occupied until she's ready to sleep.

[MacKinnon]

For us, I think it's a summertime problem. It's still light out, here anyway, at 9pm. My DD, 4.5, can't settle down when it is so light out. like milehighmonkeys said, we try to not engage her in discussions and have started just letting her look at books quietly in bed. She is not allowed out of bed after the final tuck in, we make sure she has gone potty, has a glass of water, etc. so there is nothing left to do. Then she gets a big stack of books and just reads quietly until she falls asleep. We've also been encouraging her to count fireflies in the twilight, that seems to be fun and mesmerizing in a sheep counting sort of way! Good luck! This has been a battle for us since it started being light late.

[LuckyMommaToo]

What time does he get up and how long does he nap? (So how much total sleep?) Four is getting oldish for naps, IME, but if it works for you guys, then it's worth it to try and keep them.

What about stories on CD? They work like a charm for my DS, who has a hard time winding down. It sounds to me like he's just not tired enough to sleep. Hope you can find the right solution!
-e