"Partial Birth Abortion" Ban - Page 7

[Potty Diva]

Well, the picture is originally from a book that I own! It's called "A Child is Born" and talks about the developement of the fetus, etc....

This particular picture I found on a site after searching google for "When does life begin?"

Don't get all sappy on me..I'm still very much pro-choice.

Though I have gone done the adoption road and know it is not a fun one to travel.

[joesmom]

i have been called many thing in my day... sappy is not one of them!

this is one topic where it is pretty certain that no one from either side will change her views. trying to debate it is like

but, it is late, & i must & get to bed. i am babysitting my two nephews tomorrow so my mom & sister can decorate for my other sister's fetus shower. & i will need to be VERY well rested, i can tell you that!

[Potty Diva]

Originally posted by joesmom


but, it is late, & i must & get to bed. i am babysitting my two nephews tomorrow so my mom & sister can decorate for my other sister's fetus shower. & i will need to be VERY well rested, i can tell you that!

I'm sorry it IS late, but I just have to :LOL :LOL over this..fetus shower :LOL

[lotusdebi]

*

[Greaseball]

I just cannot see any woman having a partial birth abortion unless she absolutely felt that was the best thing.

It's true, she probably feels it's the best thing, but she may have been misinformed. Just like women who have a c/s "for the sake of the baby" because they think they can't give birth to a 9-lb baby. They are misinformed. For each reason given for PBA, there are ways around it that save the mother's life and have a chance at saving the baby too.

Lotusdebi - You probably know more about hospitals than I do. I used to work in one, but that's nothing like being put in one. The kind of experiences you had there are not the kind that help suicidal people find reasons to live, that's for sure. People often kill themselves in those kinds of places. I found that pregnancy improved my mental health, but perhaps that's not so for all people.

[barbara]

Originally posted by TiredX2
Are you serious? Abortion providers are pro-choice because they want the money? Uhhhhm, as they are medical doctors, if they are in it for the money, it would be much, much more profitable to push those same people into the major costs associated with prenatal care, labor & delivery (plus all the well baby, etc...). Why would they possibly, unless they believed in a womans right to chooose very strongly, would they choose a very inexpensive disgusting proceedure over such a money maker like OB

I beg to differ. I think it is very much about money. Abortions are done quickly and the doctors spend no time with the patient outside of performing the abortion. He con go in and do a dozen or more and then off to his regular OB/GYN or other pratice.

With the amount of abortions that are performed in this country each day, don't tell me they are doing it all out of the compassion in their hearts. Somebody is making a lot of money.

[barbara]

I point to my belly and say "baby," not "embryo."

I think that says it all!

[momto l&a]

How many babies have survived late term abortions? Anybody know?
I found a site that has a few stories from those who have survived. http://www.gravityteen.com/pregnancy/kickin.cfm
Read the stories of those who survived, heart breaking and to me most amazing that a human could could survive anything like an abortion.

[MotherNatrsSon]

Originally posted by Greaseball
It's true, she probably feels it's the best thing, but she may have been misinformed. Just like women who have a c/s "for the sake of the baby" because they think they can't give birth to a 9-lb baby. They are misinformed. For each reason given for PBA, there are ways around it that save the mother's life and have a chance at saving the baby too.

Well from the information that I have gathered, most of the women that have partil birth abortions performed are women that want the pegnancy to end with a baby in their arms. If I were a woman and wanted a child and my OB told me my child was dead inside me, I think I would seek a seond, maybe even a third opinion about the pregnancy before I went ahead with a partial birth abortion.

I am willing to bet that there are some women that are misinformed as to the likelihood of their baby beig able to be born and live in certain circumstances as well.

Originally posted by joesmom


but, it is late, & i must & get to bed. i am babysitting my two nephews tomorrow so my mom & sister can decorate for my other sister's fetus shower. & i will need to be VERY well rested, i can tell you that!

I am part Lakota and have family on Pine ridge and it is considered very rude and disrespectful to give a pregnant woman a gift for a child while she is pregnant. Maybe that is why "fetus" showers are given to women at such a late point in the pregnancy. Although anything can happen, the liklihood of anything going wrong is greatly diminished after a certain point.

Originally posted by barbera

I beg to differ. I think it is very much about money. Abortions are done quickly and the doctors spend no time with the patient outside of performing the abortion. He con go in and do a dozen or more and then off to his regular OB/GYN or other pratice.

With the amount of abortions that are performed in this country each day, don't tell me they are doing it all out of the compassion in their hearts. Somebody is making a lot of money.

With the insurance that an OB now has to carry being as expensive as it is and the fact that the need forthe abortions is as great as it is, do you blame an OB for making a "few" extra dollars providing a needed service? Here where I live in OhiO, the women's clinic charges for an abortion on a sliding fee scale because the majority of women that have abortions are POOR and cannot afford the cost of having one performed to begin with. I'd say they are not really making much money at all. I have a friend that volunteers there and they are the "oly" place around to get one done and they only do them in the mornings 2 days a week and each is an average of one and a half hours. That isn't very many. Mostend up costing the woman less than $100 because of the fact they are POOR.

MNS

[RidentMama]

Well, I've managed to make it to the end of this discussion. It took me a long time, with numerous breaks because I just couldn't take it all in one dose.

I believe in pro-choice: It is your choice to have sex. Should those moments of pleasure result in a pregnancy, you have lost your choice and are now responsible for the innocent life that you carry within your blessed womb. Choosing to abort a child at any stage is choosing to commit murder (IMO). So to answer the original question of whether or not PBA should be considered illegal, yes--I firmly believe it should be illegal for all of the reasons that I have read up to my post: c-section the woman at the latest possible time (preferably when she goes into labor) and allow the dead or dying child (because no matter what problems it may have genetically or physically, it is still a child) to pass away wrapped in his/her loving parents' embrace; place the "viable" CHILD up for adoption and screen prospective parents beforehand--from what I understand, babies have a much greater chance at being adopted; and we can all do our part to provide mental and physical support for scared women who believe that their only option is murdering the precious life within them in order to continue living their life to some degree of normalicy.

Children are no longer looked upon as gifts; instead, they are now considered a luxury item ("I'll use it in my spare time" like a car). Look around at the world and tell me that this is not so. How many children do you see in a daycare from the time it opens to the time it closes, just because the parents do not want to take the child home earlier? How many children are abused, molested and neglected? For every story you hear on the news at night about a child who has died from a beating or has been sexually molested by his mother's boyfriend--how many more children is this happening to that we don't hear about?

People no longer want to take the time to raise their child. Sure, we talk about breastfeeding advocacy, about not injecting our children with vaccines with who-knows-what side effects, about gentle discipline and co-sleeping. But how many people actually do this--look around your town and ask yourself that question. Instead, society values STUFF--the cars, the television sets, the game consoles and plastic toys. We're closer to the friends on the television shows than we our to our next door neighbor.

Children take time. They take energy. They steal us from our sleep and demand our constant attention. But they also smile at us to let us know of their love, they turn to us for solice from a nightmare, and my daughter now pats my cheek as I breastfeed her. Every child is a one-time priceless gift. When you're given a priceless gift from a true friend, do you destroy it with an "I can't cope with the responsibility of taking care of this" or are you thankful that your friend trusted you with such a possession?

[3boys4us]

Needless to say that I could not read this whole thread - but being very pro-choice I am thoroughly disgusted with the PBA ban. We have a family member who went through it - not because the fetus was a "luxury item" but because the fetus was suffering such deformaties it probably would not have lived anyway, it was a huge emotional/financial drain on the couple plus they had two other children to take care of.

This is not a walk in procedure. This is a rarely performed procedure that usually occurs when the fetus or the woman is at risk. It is stupid to make anything more out of it.

most of the women that have partial birth abortions performed are women that want the pegnancy to end with a baby in their arms.

This is correct.


This is a nation being hijacked by our own religious fundamentalists - our own Taliban.

[liz-hippymom]

"Knocked up college students wanting a way out don't have late term abortions. It's very hard to get one."

i stopped reading the thread at this post just to make a point-
how many of you know someone who has had a partialbirth abortion?
i know a girl who was 16 ,got pregnant, and waited and waited and waited...and ended up having an abortion at 6 months. i am not sure, but i believe at that point it is usually a partial birth abortion?
anyway- no matter what this situation sickens me because at that stage that baby is almost viable, why couldnt she have given birth and given the baby to someone who would love it???
now i am pro-choice, but also extreamly pro-child. abortions for birth control reasons are wrong IMHO, but i would never vote to make abortions illegal because sometimes it is nessasary.
i think it is a matter of opinion not for the courts to decide, its for each woman to deal with on her own, because it is her who is effected most.
that being said i still think its wrong, and BTW i am not christian.

[MotherNatrsSon]

Originally posted by momto l&a
How many babies have survived late term abortions? Anybody know?
I found a site that has a few stories from those who have survived. http://www.gravityteen.com/pregnancy/kickin.cfm
Read the stories of those who survived, heart breaking and to me most amazing that a human could could survive anything like an abortion.

That is a "nice" sensationalistic type story you linked to. It doen not give any details as to why the woman in question was having an abortion in the first place. Sounds to me like she was having a "late" abortion for birth control purposes to me.

Being sure to put the doctor's name in that article is also kinda weird. Do the people that run that site want some pro-life freak blowing up his office or shooting at him?

Just because there are those that abuse the procedure does not mean that it should be banned for all.

There was also no abortion performed on the child. The only thing I can see the "seaweed like" substance would have done is softened the cervix or possibly allowed dialation to begin. The child died, not because of the abortion, but because it could not survive out of the womb at that early stage of development. It wasn't a "survivor".

Why did she want an abortion done in the first palce?

MNS

[tara]

dupe!

[tara]

I haven't been around these parts for months and months, but I happened to stop by and see this thread! I've read the whole thing, and here is my .02...

Take a look at this site: http://www.house.gov/judiciary/216.htm It is the testimony before the House of Representatives of Coreen Costello, a Christian, Republican, Pro-life woman who has had a late term abortion. Powerful, moving testimony.

My doctor arrived at two in the morning. He held my hand, and informed me that they did not expect our baby to live. She was unable to absorb the amniotic fluid and it was puddling into my uterus. This poor precious child had a lethal neurological disorder and had been unable to move for almost two months. The movements I had been feeling over the last few months had been nothing more than bubbles and fluid. Her chest cavity was unable to rise and fall to stretch her lungs to prepare them for air. It was as if she had no lungs at all. Her vital organs were atrophying. Our darling little girl was going to die.

We asked if there was any way that Katherine could be born alive. He looked carefully at the ultrasound, measured her head and explained sadly how large it was, and said that there was no way it could fit through my cervix without draining some of the fluid. He also explained that due to the difficulty of the position she was in, they would have to go inside my womb and for that, I would be put under heavy anesthesia. With her heartbeat as irregular and slow as it was already, he did not think she would survive the anesthesia.

This was the safest way for me to deliver. This left open the possibility of more children. It greatly lowered the health risk to me. Most important, it offered a peaceful, painless passing for Katherine Grace.

Please read the entire page, there is a lot more there that anyone who thinks this procedure is never necessary or is always horribly cruel should read. Another page with stories from women who have had late term abortions: http://www.korrnet.org/choicetn/late.term.html There is a story here of a fetus without brain tissue (whose diabetic mother would have difficulty healing from a C-section), a fetus without a stomach... Sad, tragic stories that represent the reality of late term abortion.

These are not viable babies. All this talk about babies who would live if only allowed a c-sec delivery is so much sensationalism. These are babies who will die, some of whom are not truly alive in utero. And c-section will not save these babies, it will provide greater risk to the mother.

I'm not going to claim that late term abortion never happens without clear medical cause, but I believe it is rare. Many states already have laws restricting it. You could probably find a pro-life site that claims the opposite. Guess what? That means that the truth is somewhere in the middle. And for me that just doesn't justify taking the choice away from women like those mentioned.

[candiland]

To me, the issue is black and white.
If the mother is going to die, and/or if the baby is severely deformed and will not live, anyway, it is a personal decision that the gov't has no place in.
If the woman is having a PBA simply because she does not want a baby, she needs a mental hospital that can take care of her and give the baby up for adoption after it is born.
There is no difference, in that case, between giving birth to a baby and then killing it or a PBA "medical procedure".
It seems pretty logical to me.

[Tigerchild]

Originally posted by liz-hippymom
"Knocked up college students wanting a way out don't have late term abortions. It's very hard to get one."

i stopped reading the thread at this post just to make a point-
how many of you know someone who has had a partialbirth abortion?
i know a girl who was 16 ,got pregnant, and waited and waited and waited...and ended up having an abortion at 6 months. i am not sure, but i believe at that point it is usually a partial birth abortion?

That's incorrect. It's not 'usually' a PBA at that point. There are a few different options at that point. PBA is a very, very specific TYPE of late-term abortion, used in very specific circumstances.

I believe people are confusing late-term (anything after 16 weeks) abortions with the D&X procedure. There are several kinds of late-term abortion, D&X is one of them. It is not the only one.

As I said in my post, I was pressured to get ready for selective reduction from 16 weeks on. From support groups, I know quite a few people who have had late-term abortions, but only one who had the D&X and that was because she found out her baby had no brain tissue and a HUGE head. That procedure allowed her to hold her baby boy in her arms, instead of never seeing him (in pieces). The nurses were able to put a cap on him (they do that frequently with babies with incomplete skulls, even when their head is not swollen, so that the parents are not shocked by the appearance).

How many times have you been put in the position to consider a late term abortion? How many people do YOU know that have had them, and specifically the D&X?

If it's none, then I suggest you not dismiss my experience and other's pain just because they're inconvenient to your opinion on this matter.

[Potty Diva]

I am kind of offended at the flippant nature in which the word adoption is being used. Adoption is not as easy or as pleasant for anyone, INCLUDING the adoptees, as people seem to believe.

[shelley4]

Originally posted by Potty Diva
Using emotionally charged words doesn't change the scientific fact that embryos are NOT children.

i think embryos are children.. right from conception, everything was there that made my child who she is... every hair on her head, every laugh, every milky smile... it was all there. so what if she couldn't breathe on her own.. she was still herself.. just smaller.

[liz-hippymom]

kitty-
let me just say "EASY KILLA!" back off...sheesh
i wasnt incorrect because i ASKED if it was a PB abortion or not. it wasnt presented as a fact.

"How many times have you been put in the position to consider a late term abortion? How many people do YOU know that have had them, and specifically the D&X?"

ummm well i havent - BUT if i had i wouldnt chose it-,
and i dont know anyone who has had one unless the girl did have one and she might well have, i dont know...i didnt ask "how many people know someone who has had one" to make you get all
i was seriously ASKING not giving a condisending question which is what you are giving back...
there is no reason for you to flame me...go back and read my post again - im not saying ithe bill SHOULD be passed at all. so take a chill pill.