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Deep Breaths... Need to vent and cry :( - Page 2

post #21 of 50
WOW !! Hugs to you. Your heart is in the right place. Only you can know the course of action that is right for your situation. If you can stick it out until you feel that you can have an impact, kudos to you.

Often talking about it relieves the stress, and I stongly encourage you to post your story anywhere you can. Consider: www.genitalintegrity.com/blouch/ . The outside world needs to see this barbaric custom for what it is.

Bless you, and hang in there !!
post #22 of 50
This is the exact reason that I no longer work in any sort of L&D situations. I am a nurse and to me, the $ is just not worth it. And while I totally commend you for wanting to change people's minds as a RN. In reality, at my old hospital anyway, there was nothing that could be done. The nurses could NOT mention their personal beliefs on the subject to the parents.

Sounds like you do want to keep the job though. If I were you I would sit down and talk with the nurse manager. Tell her that you can't assist with circs anymore. Arrange help with another PCT or something. If you can't do that, then honestly, I would ask for a transfer to somewhere else in the hospital.

Could I do this for 3 years while keeping my mouth closed about it?? No. No. No.
post #23 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppyFluffer
Holding my newly born baby boy in a sling and looking at his sweet face as he sleeps snugged against my body .....it's a really horrendous reality to think that this happens to babies today...still.

Your post was very difficult to read. I really want to close the thread and pretend that I didn't read this but I can't.

While it's the parents that select to have this done to their children, it doesn't happen without the medical personel's willingness. While you think you have no power now, I suspect you may. There have to be others who feel the same way you do but who are silent about it. I think your voice is important. I also believe that by passively participating in the process you are passively approving of it.

I think that the people that are close to this have turned themselves off to the horror of it. One has to in order to keep participating. I don't think dealing with this amongst your coworkers is an effective place to address it because they are numb and in denial I suspect.

What impact would it have to record, either video or simply voice recording, the procedure and take it to the medical ethics board or patient advicate or another high level of administration? I see two issues here. The horrendous nature of the procedure and how it impacts the infant and the emotional damage it does to those who participate with it. You have a right to work in a job environment that does not leave you with post traumatic stress disorder.

I also question how effective you will be as a RN in swaying the opinion of parents regarding circ. I've read many posts about how nurses are to care for parents and follow doctors orders. Your job is not to educate parents to not do procedures which are lucrative for the doctors and hospitals. I think you will find your hands tied just as much as a RN as you do now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nummies
This is the exact reason that I no longer work in any sort of L&D situations. I am a nurse and to me, the $ is just not worth it. And while I totally commend you for wanting to change people's minds as a RN. In reality, at my old hospital anyway, there was nothing that could be done. The nurses could NOT mention their personal beliefs on the subject to the parents.

Sounds like you do want to keep the job though. If I were you I would sit down and talk with the nurse manager. Tell her that you can't assist with circs anymore. Arrange help with another PCT or something. If you can't do that, then honestly, I would ask for a transfer to somewhere else in the hospital.

Could I do this for 3 years while keeping my mouth closed about it?? No. No. No.
Yes to both of these posts. Please don't think you have to suck it up because you will be able to help these babies down the road as an RN. Torture or assisting in torture should not be part of anyone's job description. You have the right to stop assisting in torture and you may have the ability to change things for the better at your hospital.

Please contact Marilyn Milos for her advice.
post #24 of 50
I am really really sorry that you have to be in this position. I can't imagine. And a shout out, since you are kind of a 'neighbor.' Quirky is right, maybe the job isn't worth it. Hugs and support, mama.
post #25 of 50
Thread Starter 
Thank you to those with comments of support, especially to yarn goddess and paphia, your words really do help. I was afraid that by me posting I would get attacked and labeled as "one of them" but as fearful as I was I posted anyway because I had to get it out SOMEWHERE. I had to let it all out somewhere where everyone didn't think I was "being overdramatic" or a "wimp".

As far as starting a "chain reaction" of other people refusing to do it-- in the time I have been working there, I have been on the lookout for anyone who might feel the same way as me, and I have yet to find any possible candidates. If I remember correctly, I think my state is in like the top 3 for circ rates. All of the nurses are for circ, and if the the rare boy does manage to get out of there unscathed, the nurses will joke and mock about it. There is even this SICK song I've heard them joking sing that goes something like "whack whack whack my dick" (sung to row row row your boat) It's absolutely disgusting. There is this one nurse I especially hate. I swear she is obsessed with circumcisions. She goes on and on about how doc's so-and-so do "such pretty circs". She always assists with the circs if she is working that day. One time I heard her and a doctor talking while they were in there doing one, and I think they were joking about the size of the baby's penis or something.... There are different sizes that they use (1.1 or 1.3) and all I remember hearing is the doc laughing and saying to her "that poor baby, he should have been a 1.1 but you made me stretch him to fit the .3
I secretly plot to kill her....

But there is no one else there who feels the same way. If I refused right now I would get NO respect and they would probably laugh. Especially since I am the "new guy" yet to earn any respect, and because I'm only a cna and therefore have "no training or knowledge like THEY have". So right now, my opinion means nothing to them.
If I were to refuse it as an RN, I would be seen as an equal and they would take my stance more seriously. I wouldn't be brushed off and laughed at like I would now (or at least have less of a chance)
Also, I WOULD be able to talk to the parents more about it. Right now, I have no contact with the parents at all. The closest I have gotten, is when it's been my job to round up all the babies for the pedi rounds in the am, I will tell the parents of the boys that they will be circed at this time. I'll slip in something like "you know that this is an elective procedure and you don't have to do it? You've read on the consent sheet that it is a cosmetic procedure only, and not recommended medically?" I've found that lots of times, I will be the one taking the baby BACK to mom after pedi rounds, and the mom didn't know that baby was to be circed at that time. I just think that since they probably made the decision and signed the papers before baby was born, there might be a chance that once baby is actually here, they might change their mind. But if they are only told it's done after the fact it is too late for any second thoughts.
So far, I've had none change their mind though..

But as an RN, I could really go over it thoroughly with them before signing the consent. It is part of the standard checklist to go through with the parents. When I got to the circ part, I could REALLY stress the facts about it (leaving out any personal info). I would create the tone that it was something that is disapproved of, and that I thought they were weird for wanting it done. I would go over what the procedure entails VERY thoroughly. Etc etc etc.
The nurses are SUPPOSED to be doing that (giving informed consent) but most of them do a really piss poor job of it.

As far as posting my "story" in other places..... I really don't know. I didn't write it for the purpose of spreading it to parents...It was just something I needed to get out to vent. It seems like it would be a little too "dramatic" or "one sided" for any parent to take seriously. Don't know if that makes sense, but I have just seen so many times where people will completely dismiss information that is "too hard for them to swallow" or seems like is "out there". If something seems biased at all, they will think that person just has an agenda and is exaggerating.

Maybe I will look over it again and see how I can reword it to be more suitable for posting on those types of sites. At the VERY least I need to go back and clean up my grammar. When I typed it, everything just kind of poured out so fast for me to care about the grammar or proper sentence structure, etc. Going back and reading it, actually, it sounds like it's coming from someone with little or no education
Like I said, maybe I will look over it again and try to come up with a better way of writing everything so it is more clearly written and organized and submit it to a couple of those sites.

Thanks again to all of you for being here spreading the word and having this site available
post #26 of 50


I don't really have any words for this. I am so sorry you are going through this.
post #27 of 50
You need to share your OP with a lot of people, on mainstream lists. At least what you're going through could have an impact then.

I couldn't stand there and watch. I have nightmares. I heard a circ once, at a pediatrician's office in a supposedly anesthetized baby. I can't ever bring myself to watch a video. I know I'd have nightmares, hearing it was bad enough. It has to go against every instinct that you have....and I have to think these moms, if they knew what it was really like would do whatever they could to stop this from happening to their little boys. Maybe that's where sharing your story could help.
post #28 of 50
I don't think it's healthy for you to be profiting (a.k.a. employed) to do something that you find unethical. You only have to answer to yourself (and perhaps God if you believe in him). What your coworkers think doesn't matter in the long run.
post #29 of 50
~Ryleigh's Mommy~, just saw your post, and I'm sorry you are having such a hard time at work--what a hostile environment! Is there a way you can transfer to a different floor (Antenatal or Peds or something)?

Why aren't you allowed to talk about work outside of work? Confidentiality dictates that you can't discuss specific patients or name names, but you certainly discuss generalities and upsetting situations! Does your hospital have an EAP? Are there any RNs or supervisors you could discuss your concerns with? Being low on the totem pole is one thing, being totally disregarded is another entirely!

Hope your situation improves
post #30 of 50
I'd find a new job.
Just reading this post is difficult for me...there is no way I'd do a job that I morally and ethically oppose to. I think it could be harm to you to see that and be there for something you cannot stop.
If there is anyway you could go discuss the procedure with the parents before it's performed to give info. and/or answer any questions...maybe tell them what your job will be. Not like "Do not circ." but give info. so they can make a more educated decision...maybe encourage them to attend the circ. if that's what they choose.
I feel for you and really think there must be a different position you can find.
post #31 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Ryleigh's Mommy~ View Post
If I refused right now I would get NO respect and they would probably laugh. Especially since I am the "new guy" yet to earn any respect, and because I'm only a cna and therefore have "no training or knowledge like THEY have".
Being the new guy and being a tech doesn't mean you have no respect on the floor. As I said before, talk to your nurse manager. Let him/her know that assisting makes you uncomfortable. Three years is a long time to suck it up and stress over what your job entails. It's not worth getting up and going to a job you dread. RN school is going to physically, mentally and emotionally kick your butt even without the added stress of your job. If you can't talk to your NM about not doing circs at all I would seriously suggest transferring to another department.

Quote:
Also, I WOULD be able to talk to the parents more about it. Right now, I have no contact with the parents at all....But as an RN, I could really go over it thoroughly with them before signing the consent. It is part of the standard checklist to go through with the parents...I would create the tone that it was something that is disapproved of, and that I thought they were weird for wanting it done. I would go over what the procedure entails VERY thoroughly.....The nurses are SUPPOSED to be doing that (giving informed consent) but most of them do a really piss poor job of it.
I bolded that line above because no, our job is not to give informed consent. Informed consent is the job of the MD. I can have the patient sign the consent after the doc has explained everything but I cannot be the one who explains the procedure because as an RN it is not in my scope of practice. Before any of my patients sign a consent I ask "Did the doctor explain everything to you clearly? Do you have any questions regarding what procedure is going to be performed?" If they say that they understand, I have them sign. Some times I get "The doctor never said anything to me. I don't know what exactly is going on." Then I will either call the MD and let him/her know that the patient has questions for him/her and needs more explanation or (in the case of one GI doc who never talks to his patients) I send the unsigned consent down plain as day and tell the patient "Ask to speak with Dr. X, they can't do anything until you talk to him." The docs hate it and I really don't care. I'm not doing their job for them.

As an RN you are the voice of the patient. That means respecting their decisions no matter if they agree with yours or not. I hate getting tiny, frail, 90+ year olds with a family says "Mom's a full code. Do everything you can...." because the thought of doing chest compressions and breaking the ribs of that little old lady breaks my heart. But that is their wishes and I have to respect them. If they are unsure of their decision I can have the MD talk to them about options but it is not my job. I can provide "patient education" about a disease process or a procedure but ethically I cannot make it known what I prefer in my personal opinion, you can't push your beliefs on your patients. I'm their to support the patient and family, not change their minds.
post #32 of 50
I am so sorry for you. Can you write a letter of objection and then continue to be available in an emergency? I would do anything I could to not be a part of this procedure, tho of course I understand your need for a job etc etc. It sounds like your co-workers need some education and you stating your position might allow others to talk with you. Especially if you still "do the job" even after a stated objection. I have to defer to all the experienced posters here with lots more info than me, but it seems scary to me that you are involved in something you obviously believe to be wrong.
I have to admit I have never seen a circ video or heard anything. I honestly believe I couldn't handle it.
post #33 of 50
So sorry! This is the exact reason why I don't work in that dept. once I become an RN! I wouldn't be able to handle it. I seriously just sent this to my brother. Him and his wife are expecting a boy in Sept and are going to circ.
post #34 of 50
Thanks for sharing your story. I definitely think you should post it other places too. People don't realize how horrible it is, and your words carry a lot of weight because you have been there.
When you're an RN you can join Nurses for the rights of the child http://nurses.cirp.org/
post #35 of 50

just remember...

it doesn't have to be about you stating YOUR opinion on the matter. You can show them facts: sensitivity study published in the BJU International (British Journal of Urology) in April 2007, foreskin function movie done by DOCTORS opposing circ, history of circ in North America http://www.noharmm.org/docswords.htm , etc. Remember, you've got FACTS in your hands and they got NOTHING!
post #36 of 50

Out on a limb here...

I WISH SOMEONE LIKE YOU WOULD HAVE GIVEN US PROPER INFORMED CONSENT!!!




Better yet...





I WISH NO ONE HAD EVEN ASKED US IF WE WANTED TO CIRC!!!













I'd be giving you flowers : and be THANKING YOU: for saving my baby from this atrocity. That may sound cheesy, but its deemed very appropriate.
post #37 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruitful womb View Post
I WISH SOMEONE LIKE YOU WOULD HAVE GIVEN US PROPER INFORMED CONSENT!!!




Better yet...





I WISH NO ONE HAD EVEN ASKED US IF WE WANTED TO CIRC!!!













I'd be giving you flowers : and be THANKING YOU: for saving my baby from this atrocity. That may sound cheesy, but its deemed very appropriate.
I second this!!
post #38 of 50
Thread Starter 
just wanted to say, I've gotten a few pm's asking permission to copy and paste, that's fine with me even though I didn't gear it towards that purpose and I probably could have done a lot better job writing it if I knew it would be shared.
But I guess it doesn't bother me, other than making me a little embarrassed
post #39 of 50
Thank you for sharing Ryleigh's. The way your wrote your OP you could tell it came from the heart without over thinking it and it is perfect.
post #40 of 50
Wow, that's a powerful story. It def. made an impression on me. I concur with the other posters. You should post this somewhere else on the internet. I think it would open a lot of people's eyes. Perhaps, if you object to participating and spoke out, you would find other nurses with a similar stance in your hospital. I don't know about your relations with some of the other nurses in your department, but if what they say makes you feel uncomfortable (I certainly would not be able to stand them), perhaps you should say something. But obviously don't do anything that may hurt your position. In any case, thanks for posting this and I would def. post it somewhere else.
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