My research: CSS - c-section syndrome (causing allergies) - Page 15

[Nanethiel]

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

Now Nanethiel says Threelac has casein in it?

I'm very upset about this, too. I had done my "research" on Threelac on the Kirkmann website. They state that it has nothing in it that's derived from milk (and other common allergens) and that it does not contain casein.

I then ordered it from a website that was a little cheaper and when I got it the other day I was so frustrated seeing that it lists casein!

Now I have a packet here and don't know what to do with it!

[kjbrown92]

So if I have the oregano, wormwood/black walnut, Threelac (when I get it, and I still need to know dosages), and I'm already doing natural sauerkraut (2 Tbs./day) as my enzymes, high potency Fish Oil (4 capsules/day), probiotics (I'm on the abx support kind, plus we do coconut milk yogurt mostly 1x every 2 days), we do bone broth (both chicken and beef) at least 4 times a week. And I go on the anti-yeast diet. Is that enough? Or do I need to get Nilstat as well? I haven't found the Oxygen Elements or the L. Rhamnosus either. And what should I expect when I start? And I'm not breastfeeding, but have 2 children with food intolerances. Should they be getting the same stuff (different dosages)? One was vaginal, one was c-section. Unfortunately, I have to stay on the abx during this time, so is it even going to work? Or is it pointless? I'm in a vicious cycle right now, I can't be off the antibiotics to start the healing without getting another infection which will need more abx. I'm stuck. Or am I?

[FireWithin]

Originally Posted by Calm

Yes. It does contain casein.
http://www.ghthealth.com/autism/

I don't see where Fivelac contains casein. I don't see it on the box, but it does contain lactose.
but please don't take my word for it.

[Nanethiel]

Pretty sure we were talking about ThreeLac earlier - Fivelac might be different. I have a box right here in front of me (Threelac) which says it contains Casein. Casein is not listed in the ingredients, but there's a separate sentence underneath the list of ingredients that says: "Contains an ingredient derived from milk. (12ppm Casein)"

Originally Posted by Mammo2Sammo

I don't see where Fivelac contains casein. I don't see it on the box, but it does contain lactose.
but please don't take my word for it.

I did some more research on the manufacturer's website and I might be able to do the "Flora Five" as a probiotic, depending on their answer what the lecithin in it is made of.

Still trying to decide if I should give it a try with the Threelac or not. I took a normal probiotic for a few days a couple of months ago and my son was reacting to it (badly!). Seeing how small of an amount 12ppm is and that there's been improvement in general is making me contemplate if I should give it a try or not..

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

So if I have the oregano, wormwood/black walnut, Threelac (when I get it, and I still need to know dosages), and I'm already doing natural sauerkraut (2 Tbs./day) as my enzymes, high potency Fish Oil (4 capsules/day), probiotics (I'm on the abx support kind, plus we do coconut milk yogurt mostly 1x every 2 days), we do bone broth (both chicken and beef) at least 4 times a week. And I go on the anti-yeast diet. Is that enough? Or do I need to get Nilstat as well? I haven't found the Oxygen Elements or the L. Rhamnosus either. And what should I expect when I start? And I'm not breastfeeding, but have 2 children with food intolerances. Should they be getting the same stuff (different dosages)? One was vaginal, one was c-section. Unfortunately, I have to stay on the abx during this time, so is it even going to work? Or is it pointless? I'm in a vicious cycle right now, I can't be off the antibiotics to start the healing without getting another infection which will need more abx. I'm stuck. Or am I?

Any chance of adding kombucha? It has Saccharomyces boulardii, even GT Dave's does. And add some kefir? It has 37 microbials in symbiotic balance, vs. yougurt has only a few. Ecoli, listeria, and salmonella can not even grow in kefir. http://tmc.dergisi.org/pdf/pdf_TMC_279.pdf

I'd also increase the saur kraut and yogurt significantly.

Then consider, in the future, getting agreement from your doctor to bring a weekly (or monthy) urine sample for culture and sensitivity to test for any bacterial concerns, while OFF antibiotics. Resume antibiotics at the first indication of any concern for the 5-10 days, and reculture the urine. I'd suggest a 1 month full court press on consuming the probiotics, before stopping the antibiotics though.

This is common practice with grade 1-IV VUR (Vesicoureteral Reflux) in children even.

Wormwood or black walnut has some risk/issues, I don't recall which. I think it is the wormwood. Check about that.

And frankly, I'd rather take a dose of nystatin than be on antibiotics constantly.

But, I don't believe continuing the microflora killers along side the probiotics long term, off antibiotics is optimal, as you kill the probiotics too. Perhaps, consider doing the OoO, Threelac, Nystatin, or the myriad of other natural alternatives on a periodic basis, monthly or weekly initially while off antibiotics, not constantly, just as a 'clean the slate plan'.

There is always a way. There are not only two options, "on antibiotics" or "off antibiotics".

But, I'd do anything to get off daily antibiotics.

Also, this yogurt has Lactobacillus rhamnosus. http://www.stonyfield.com/Wellness/M...cfm?moos_id=60

Have you read the probiotics links about viability in the marketed brands? Basically, most marketed probiotics are not viable all the way to the gut. Whole food is.

Are you taking antacids? (don't) Could you add raw Bragg's apple cider vinegar? I know Calm and I disagree about this too. LOL

Also, for health, I'd add organic coconut water and green juices to your diet. Better yet, I just found this coconut water vinegar. http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/or...er_vinegar.htm

A simple alternative is Coco-Biotic drink. http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/or...er_vinegar.htm


Pat

[waluso]

I'm going to jump in here as well. I suspect I may have a yeast issue (took birth control pills for 15+ years, had antibiotics numerous times for bronchitis, took steroids numerous times for asthma, took advair for asthma for years, had a c-section with antibiotics, etc) and would like some advice on treatment.

DD is 5 months old and EBF so I need to make sure whatever I do will not harm her, and will not adversely affect my milk supply. I am still on a TED and up until this weekend was taking no supplements. DD has GI issues (very gassy, green mucousy stinky poop, sometimes with blood) and mild exzema and I just can't get her fully to baseline.

So here is what I am now doing as of this past weekend:

- Eliminated all sugar and fruit from my diet (I am using some stevia)
- Taking Candidase (2 pills 3x a day, 2 hours after meals)
- Taking Kirkman Labs pro-bio defense probiotics (2 pills a day, with breakfast/dinner) (I am switching to pro-bio gold because I realized the pro-bio defense is not labeled hypoallergenic but haven't received my order yet)
- Drinking 1 cup bone broth a day (plus using it to make quinoa)

Here is what I am planning to do going forward:
- Make kombucha and water kefir (my order should arrive in the next few days)

Questions:

- Is there anything I am doing wrong so far?
- How much kombucha/water kefir should i drink daily?
- I am thinking after reading this thread that I need to add nystatin, pau d'arco, threelac, or something like that. I would like to avoid nystatin because I don't think DD's pediatrician will prescribe it (she wants us to just use homeopathy - we have been doing that for a few months and will keep doing it but I think we need to do something else too).
- Should I give probiotics (or anything else) to DD?
- The Candidase bottle says for best results to take Virastop each time Candidase is taken. Would this be helpful?
- I have been taking the Candidase for almost 2 days and so far only feel thirsty at night and have had a mild headache on and off. Sounds like others had much more extreme reactions. Does this mean I may not have a yeast problem?

Thanks so much for your help! This thread has been really eye opening.

[Nanethiel]

It's made from Soy.

Originally Posted by Nanethiel

I did some more research on the manufacturer's website and I might be able to do the "Flora Five" as a probiotic, depending on their answer what the lecithin in it is made of.

[kjbrown92]

Originally Posted by WuWei

Any chance of adding kombucha? It has Saccharomyces boulardii, even GT Dave's does. And add some kefir? It has 37 microbials in symbiotic balance, vs. yougurt has only a few. Ecoli, listeria, and salmonella can not even grow in kefir. http://tmc.dergisi.org/pdf/pdf_TMC_279.pdf

I guess I have to research kefir and kombucha to see what's in it. My yogurt has streptococcus thermophilus, lactobacillus bulgaricus, and lactobacillus casei. My "Abx Support" has: saccaromyces boulardii, lactobacillus rhamnosus, bifidobacterium bifidum, and bifidobacterium breve (2x day).

I'd also increase the saur kraut and yogurt significantly.

I can do that easily enough.

Then consider, in the future, getting agreement from your doctor to bring a weekly (or monthy) urine sample for culture and sensitivity to test for any bacterial concerns, while OFF antibiotics. Resume antibiotics at the first indication of any concern for the 5-10 days, and reculture the urine. I'd suggest a 1 month full court press on consuming the probiotics, before stopping the antibiotics though.

I can buy the test strips in bulk from a medical supply place (the same one the doctor's use and test my own urine, every day if I want to. The reason this seems to be better (being on abx all the time) is that I'm not becoming resistant to all the antibiotics. Last time (after DS and before DD) the bacteria was becoming more and more resistant and I kept having breakthrough infections (those HAVE to get cultured to even find out if you have an infection). Since I've been on the Augmentin (for 2 years) I haven't had a single breakthrough (knock on wood). But that's why I'm trying to figure out if I can start healing for a certain length of time (like a month or 2 months or whatever) then going off the abx while increasing the healing and testing when I need to.

There is always a way. There are not only two options, "on antibiotics" or "off antibiotics".

For me those seem to be the options with the UTIs, unfortunately. So far, in the last 2.5 years, I get one within THREE DAYS of going off the abx. So yes, I don't have to be on it ALL the time. I can have 3 days off every once in a while!!

Are you taking antacids? (don't) Could you add raw Bragg's apple cider vinegar? I know Calm and I disagree about this too. LOL

I don't take antacids. All calcium makes me nauseous (even Tums). Not sure why. And I'm supposed to be taking 600mg/day at least (osteopenia). I can tolerate the Vital Nutrients 200mg calcium-magnesium, but that's about it. I could take apple cider vinegar I guess. What does it do? Just curious, since the yeast free diets say not to have vinegar....

Also, for health, I'd add organic coconut water and green juices to your diet. Better yet, I just found this coconut water vinegar. http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/or...er_vinegar.htm

I actually have coconut water to use in case DD gets sick (as her Pedialyte alternative). But what does that do? I use coconut oil and coconut milk already.

Do I assume my kids have yeast issues too? And what do I do for them (can they take all the same things)? They are 3yo and 8yo.

[joybird]

I don't know the answers to all your questions, but IMO if you are going to be drinking coconut water it needs to be cultured. Otherwise it has too much sugar.

The problem I see here is that as long as you are on abx, it is all but pointless to do a yeast treatment. Okay that is not completely true because you may be able to at least control it somewhat, that is all. But every single probiotic you take or consume is being killed immediately by the abx in your system. That's what abx do, they kill bacteria, good and bad. So that is a lot of precious time and money that is going nowhere. I'm not sure what advice to give you though. I know that if I had to go on abx for some reason, I would make sure to take Nystatin while doing so, or at the very least OoO or GSE. This would be to control the yeast in order that I'd have more luck re-populating the gut with beneficial bacteria after the abx. Gosh, your situation is tough. I wish I had more advice to offer.

[FireWithin]

Originally Posted by Nanethiel

Pretty sure we were talking about ThreeLac earlier - Fivelac might be different. I have a box right here in front of me (Threelac) which says it contains Casein. Casein is not listed in the ingredients, but there's a separate sentence underneath the list of ingredients that says: "Contains an ingredient derived from milk. (12ppm Casein)"
I did some more research on the manufacturer's website and I might be able to do the "Flora Five" as a probiotic, depending on their answer what the lecithin in it is made of.

Still trying to decide if I should give it a try with the Threelac or not. I took a normal probiotic for a few days a couple of months ago and my son was reacting to it (badly!). Seeing how small of an amount 12ppm is and that there's been improvement in general is making me contemplate if I should give it a try or not..

oh I know, I don't think I was clear. I was just stating that I don't think fivelac has casein. Just and FYI for those who might be looking for an alternative.

[Nanethiel]

Got it.

Originally Posted by Mammo2Sammo

oh I know, I don't think I was clear. I was just stating that I don't think fivelac has casein. Just and FYI for those who might be looking for an alternative.

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by joybird

But every single probiotic you take or consume is being killed immediately by the abx in your system. That's what abx do, they kill bacteria, good and bad.

I don't think antibiotics are absolutely detrimental to every bacteria. Otherwise we wouldn't "need" (oxymoronic choice of words, coming from me, lol) different types of antibiotics: Sulfonamindes, Macrolides, Penicillins, Cephalosporins, Fluoroquinolones, Tetracyclines, Aminoglycosides. Each antibiotic is effective only for certain types of "infections". http://www.emedicinehealth.com/antibiotics/page2_em.htm

In fact, the pharmaceutical companies are working to invent an encapsulated form of probiotics to be co-marketed with antibiotics to replace beneficial gut flora (to the best of our ability) during concurrent administration.


Pat

[joybird]

Okay, let me correct myself. Almost every single probiotic that enters a body riddled with abx will be killed. Any amount that manages to survive the annihilation bomb that abx is will not be significant enough to encourage re-population of healthy flora.

I'd certainly believe that the drug barons are looking to market a product like the one mentioned. They know some of us are catching on to them. Too bad it probably won't work, considering that it would be administered at the same time as their other product that kills the healthy organisms that it would contain.

[kjbrown92]

What I want is to kill off enough of the yeast so that I CAN get off the abx. And then do major treatment. If I could get off the abx for 2 months without getting another infection, I could do major kill off right?

So if right now I'm doing:
Abx Support (probiotic)
Saurkraut (1/2 c./day or can do more)
coconut milk yogurt (I'll try to do 5 oz./day)
High Potency Fish Oil (4 gelcaps/day)
Anti-yeast diet (you all convinced me yesterday that the time to start is NOW)

Then when I get my order in, I add:
Candex
Oil of Oregano
Black Walnut/Wormwood
Threelac

And do that for a month, go off the abx and increase something? or just stay the same? And see how long I can go without a UTI? Does that sound like a plan? I don't know what doctor I'd go to to get Nystatin. My allopath would look at me like I'm crazy (though maybe not since he's tested me for MS, heavy metals, and other things just because I'd bring in a study, because no one has answers for my back pain or UTIs) and my naturopath said I didn't have a yeast problem. So can I do it all without Nystatin?

I was reading this thread in dribs and drabs all along, and missing some. So today I read over the whole thing again. And I'm so glad I finally have a plan (and my two allergy kids have always had cradle cap, and actually my first DD - no food allergies - had it for a long time too).

[Panserbjorne]

I would also point out that allopaths not only test differently, but they read the results differently than alternative care providers. I wouldn't accept any of those answers, personally. I have seen the difference on many occasions with many results. It's amazing what allopaths DON'T learn in terms of interpretations. Also, allopaths run tests that DON'T work...like testing metals through blood. They only show in your blood if you are currently being exposed, not if they are lodged in your tissues. You can be severely toxic and not have it show up on those tests. Not trying to scare you, but don't assume you have the answers just because you were at one point tested, you know?

I worked with someone who got their lab results back and they got the green light from their physician. Everything was fine. I was shocked-this person wasn't at all fine. I asked to see the labs. I showed them to an ND and they were in awe. Their were so many things wrong with the patterns on that test, but the doc said it was fine because no one thing was out of the range of normal. I am not even done with school, but there were alot of red flags which subsequent testing showed to be a pretty big issue. That person never would've got subsequent testing if they had just gone with the first opinion.Wow. Just. Wow.

[kjbrown92]

I brought all my test results to the naturopath and she didn't see anything wrong either (she also said because my TSH was fine there was no issue with my thyroid -- I said what about the other numbers -- if I already have a multi-nodular goiter, shouldn't I be getting my FT3 and FT4 checked? She said no. A few weeks ago I went to an osteopath/endocrinologist, she just me put on thyroid medicine from my symptoms and because I already have the goiter -- she said they should have put me on it just so it wouldn't get any bigger). And I take my naturopath test results to my allopath. I'm covering all my bases!

[Panserbjorne]

Wow. Have you had your iodine levels done? And just so I know that I'm reading this right....your ND said that because your TSH was fine no further testing was needed in the presence of a multi-nodular goiter?

[kjbrown92]

Originally Posted by firefaery

Wow. Have you had your iodine levels done? And just so I know that I'm reading this right....your ND said that because your TSH was fine no further testing was needed in the presence of a multi-nodular goiter?

Yup. And this naturopath came very highly recommended (by my half-brother who went to her after a massive heart infection and the doctors said they couldn't do anything and she cured him). I have not had my iodine levels done. I was wondering about that since we switched from iodized salt 2.5 years ago to sea salt because of DD's corn intolerance. The goiter was found by accident when they did an MRI of my neck to see if there was anything mechanically causing my back pain (they'd already done a mid-back one and a lower-back one and figured they'd do a neck one to make sure they got them all). Then they did an ultrasound to check the thyroid. That's why I don't know if some of my stuff is thyroid vs. yeast (thyroid can cause UTIs and muscle pain and so can yeast). The endo. put me on a low dose thyroid and said it might not do anything but they have to increase it slowly. I go back to get my levels checked in a month. But I'm impatient. If it IS yeast, then I want to start the healing now. It is funny, today I followed the diet to the letter, and increased my sauerkraut and everything else I'd already been doing. I am normally a sugar addict. Tonight, my neck/back hurts, I have a wicked headache and I started getting a rash under my engagement ring (which I've been getting on and off for the last few months). Can just that little thing have made a difference (the no fruit/no sugar etc.)? And if my back pain is going to get worse again, I don't know how I'm going to take it.

[Calm]

K, if you are considering going of abx, I would like to know a little more, if that's ok. You can share here so others (lots of readers) can get something out of it, or you can PM me, or you can decline altogether, no harm done. But I'd like to know what else you have been diagnosed with, that may be unrelated. Anything "big", like diabetes etc? Anything smaller or even tiny that comes to mind?

Do you have any blood test or other test results in file at home? I ask for and keep all mine, even now when they come electronically I still get print outs, but not everyone does. If you do, could you list your most recent results, as you see them in print? If you have too many to list, like a general blood chem test, I'll get you to just list those that are "out of range".

However, if you could also see any results that are close to out of range, list them. For instance, hypothetically, insulin "in range" might be 7 to 15, and your result is 7 or 8, write that - even though you are technically in range. This is because the ranges as they set them are not tight enough for a naturopath. A person can show "normal" on a test, enough to satisfy a regular doc, but be close enough to be significant clinically for a naturopath. If you have nothing like that, that's ok.

There are many pieces of a chronic health puzzle to put together, and in real life it's hard enough but online, when we can't even see you, it's ten times harder. All the info we can get helps, even if you think it is irrelevant - often those little tidbits are the clincher.

Sorry for not addressing previous posts.. again!... but I'm rushing about today and when I saw K is considering going off a med, I had to quickly post this.

[chlobo]

Ok, I guess I need to get off the stick, so to speak. Here is what I've been doing for several weeks:

Digest Gold or zyme pripme with meals
Candidase at night between meals
No fenol in the morning before eating
Fermented CLO (1 tbsp)
Kimchi or pickle juice when I can

I have some home made water kefir. I"m not sure if I made it right but I can start drinking that. I can also buy kombucha from the store. I'm still breastfeeding. What should I use for a yeast killer? I have no way to get a script for Nystatin at the moment. I've also had supply problems in the past so I'm not willing to use something that might impact my supply.

What is the best probiotic? I take a pharmax one but it isn't heavy duty. Just multi strain.

I'm also taking a bunch of supplements for adrenal fatigue. They include: Immuno Plus, Adrenal Support, biotin (500mg) & quercitin.

Should I be treating my son at the same time? He is 14 mo & hardly eats anything. How do I get anything in to him to help?