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remind me again why I don't want to circ  

post #1 of 60
7/31/08 at 4:45pm
Thread Starter 
So I was so dead set against it- but DH feels the opposite way- no real reason he just thinks it's the "right" thing to do. As time goes on I am starting to waiver and though deep inside I know it's not the best thing for baby boy I wonder if it's really "that" bad since they use anesthetic etc. Please remind me why I was so set against it and why even though DH wants it done I must protect my son?
post #2 of 60
7/31/08 at 4:52pm
I will recommend this article to begin with:

http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/fleiss.html

It IS really THAT bad.
post #3 of 60
7/31/08 at 4:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2keira View Post
So I was so dead set against it- but DH feels the opposite way- no real reason he just thinks it's the "right" thing to do. As time goes on I am starting to waiver and though deep inside I know it's not the best thing for baby boy I wonder if it's really "that" bad since they use anesthetic etc. Please remind me why I was so set against it and why even though DH wants it done I must protect my son?
Because you're taking away a useful and functional part of your child's anatomy without any good reason. You are allowing elective cosmetic surgery on a human being without their consent. There are risks involved with the procedure and the trauma itself can cause delayed bonding and problems with breastfeeding. Because it is not your body but your son's and he should be the one to decide whether he wants cosmetic surgery not you or your dh. Because you will be depriving him of major nerve endings by circumcising without adding any benefits from the procedure. And lastly, because it's a routine procedure that needs to be stopped and that won't happen until we as parents start standing up for the rights of our newborn children.
post #4 of 60
7/31/08 at 4:57pm
Thread Starter 
Thank you thank you...keep 'em coming! I was soooo passionalt about it a few weeks ago and DH is getting to me :-(
post #5 of 60
7/31/08 at 5:01pm
Because it's not your body, or your husband's body. It's your son's penis.

You wouldn't drink or do drugs during your pregnancy because of the risks of causing birth defects.

Did you know that being born without a foreskin is considered a birth defect?

Why would you spend nine months eating healthy, avoiding drugs known to be harmful, etc. only to voluntarily offer up your child to elective cosmetic surgery so that his penis will now be like that of a baby born with a birth defect?

Even if your baby gets proper anesthesia, it will still hurt like an SOB every time he pees on that open wound until it heals after a few weeks. Do you know how many times a day babies pee? LOTS. Every time you press him to your chest in the proper tummy to tummy nursing position, you'll be putting pressure on that open wound, on his poor little skinned penis.

Even with 100% effective anesthesia, you will still be hurting your newborn baby boy and he will feel pain on his penis for weeks.

Not to mention, why would you subject your baby to the risk of bleeding, infection, and even death? Or MRSA? Not to mention the adhesions that many circed boys suffer from.

Your husband is not being rational, quite honestly. He doesn't have any good reasons for circing your son. So why should "no good reason, it just seems like the right thing to do" trump "it's our son's penis, he has the right to decide, and there's no valid medical reason TO do it?"

Just stay strong. Your baby needs you to protect him.
post #6 of 60
7/31/08 at 5:02pm
It's not your penis and there is no reason to painfully remove a healthy part of a baby's body, period. And it still hurts there's no safe way to fully numb a newborn's penis plus it will hurt for days as it heals and gets peed on.

Just think about your baby being strapped down spread eagle and having someone rip and cut off part of his penis for no other reason except dad wanted it done. Your son will try to escape he will be screaming for you to save him.

And most of all it's your son's penis and no one else should sexually alter it.
post #7 of 60
7/31/08 at 5:08pm
go and watch a circ video. that ought to make you sway towards this side. (Then show your hubby as well.)
post #8 of 60
7/31/08 at 5:10pm
It always amazes me how people who don't really know the facts think that 'it's just what everyone else does, so I guess we should too'...(baaa baa baaa) just like sheep! If you can get yourself to watch that awful circ video and still think that it's 'okay' to have someone do that to your helpless newborn baby, then there is nothing I can do to convince you. I can forward links to all the data that shows how totally 100 percent unnecessary genital mutilation is...but until you put your foot down and tell your DH that just thinking it's the 'right' thing to do isn't going to cut it (no pun intended)....

Plus why is total horrible pain the 'right' thing to do? The 'anesthetic' doesn't work well at all. Why put your son through that? Welcome to the world, let's lop off part of your penis so you can see how painful life can be....

Check out this awesome website someone posted here.

I sent it to someone who said their brother thought that circ was some covenant of God...
http://www.coloradonocirc.org/pamphlets.php

Stick to your guns, you are the one who has to defend your baby from these ignorant people. Also make sure they don't try to retract him. Don't let your DH talk you into taking the 'easy' way out of conformity, because in the long run, it's the hardest road out there.
post #9 of 60
7/31/08 at 5:29pm
As someone else said, you spend 9 months doing everything you can to ensure that your baby will be healthy. You hope and pray that he will be perfect and healthy and normal. You worry about all the things that can go wrong, and wonder how you would cope if your baby was premature, or born with a deformity, or needed surgery.

When he's born you count his fingers and toes, and thank your lucky starts that everything is OK! You clutch him to your breast, sing to him, kiss the top of his head. You hold and snuggle him even when he's sleeping. Will he remember these things? No, not really - but it still seems important to hold him instead of just leave him in his bassinet. You want his every moment to be filled with love and comfort and security.

Would you put your precious newborn alone outside in a thunderstorm, even under an umbrella? Would your DH? Why not? He might get scared, cold, and wet, but he'll get over it, right? I think most parents would look at me like I had 3 heads if I suggested they do such a thing - yet many of these same parents will send their precious newborns off to the nursery, to be undressed under bright lights and strapped to a circumstraint.

Have you ever had stitches, or an in-office medical procedure that required lidocaine? My son (age 14) and I both have had lidocaine in the last year, and we can assure you, those shots STING! My son refuse additional anesthetic for the last 2 stitches in his hand, because the stitches themselves were less painful than the shots. Imagine how much more painful they are in a penis!

The best reason of all to not have your baby circumcised is because there's nothing wrong with him - he does NOT need an operation.

Hang in there!!!
post #10 of 60
7/31/08 at 5:39pm
I always think of NOT circumcising as the compromise. When two parties disagree, compromise is the way to. No opinion is off the board when you choose to let your son decide.

Plus, no amount of pain killer can take away the feelings after the circumcision. Plus you have a very high chance of meatal stenosis:

http://www.emedicine.com/PED/topic2356.htm

Which is a high chance for even more pain and possibly more surgery
post #11 of 60
7/31/08 at 5:44pm

please have your dh read this

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=822675
post #12 of 60
7/31/08 at 5:46pm
Also here:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...9&postcount=40


And other thoughts:

-why risk your breastfeeding relationship for a cosmetic surgery?
-Open wound rubbing in a diaper and being exposed to feces and urine= not fun
-Do you really want to deal with gauze changes, blood, and further foreskin remnant manipulation to prevent adhesions?
-Can you imagine your son crying and, to add to the things it could be, have to think "is it pain from the surgery he had?"
post #13 of 60
7/31/08 at 5:48pm
It is surgery, with the inherent risks of ANY surgery, but no health organization in the world recommends RIC!
If no one recommends it, why set him up for the risks. Not to mention all the things you KNOW he'll lose.
post #14 of 60
7/31/08 at 5:49pm
http://www.babyboy.info/happens.html

I think I got this link from another mama here on MDC. I have a 20 month intact boy and this reinforced it for me. Good luck!
post #15 of 60
7/31/08 at 6:03pm
I am not going to give you facts because you will get plenty here.
I will give you my experience at the hospital.

It was in the evening after having my daughter that I heard a baby crying. I thought...Oh poor thing. Sounds so upset! After a couple of minutes (probably shorter but seemed like forever) the screams started. It wasn't crying anymore. I thought maybe the baby was getting the PKU blood work done. I asked a nurse what what happening to that baby. She said he was getting circ'd. I was right next to the circ room!!! This baby screamed. His little screams literally shook. Just when I thought he was finally done PHEW!! OH NO HE WAS HOLDING HIS BREATH! He then lets out blood curdling screams with the shaking and holding breath here and there. It was the most AWFUL, GUT WRENCHING sound I have ever heard! This went on for at least 15 minutes! I cried. I am so worried that now I will be going back for this birth. I am specifically going to ask that I not be put even relatively close to that room or I will definitely leave shortly after. I can because I have a midwife. Trust me, if you heard those pitiful wails you wouldn't even consider it!
post #16 of 60
7/31/08 at 6:10pm
About a thousand reasons, which I'm sure others have and will tell you. But also, babies don't even get proper anesthesia during the surgery. It's unbelievable but true. It's a form of torture. Not something you want your own baby to experience.
post #17 of 60
7/31/08 at 6:15pm
Circumcision started in North America in the Puritan 1870s as a cure for masturbation (yes, you read it right! masturbation was considered to be evil and sinful and was blamed for all sort of illnesses including blindness, paralysis and mental retardation) http://www.noharmm.org/docswords.htm , http://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org/shorthis.htm

As late as the 1970's medical books were claiming that desensitizing the boy was good medicine as well as good morality. The idea of that, touted openly by medical scholarship with notable pride, was carefully tucked away when the sexual revolution permitted sexual pleasure.

__________________________________________________

If one wants to put their baby through this nightmare, they at least must have guts to see how the procedure is being done. As you can see on this video, the doctor claims that he uses anesthesia…well, make sure your speakers are on! http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...27632617&hl=en
(full version) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIRAN...eature=related
__________________________________________________

Penn and Teller video called “Circumcision Bullshit”. This video is funny and therefore, takes a lot of tension off the subject while saying what needs to be said. Perfect for showing to a man! It also explains and SHOWS non-surgical foreskin restoration. I highly recommend to take a look at this video.

Yahoo Video: http://tinyurl.com/23kcyc
Google Video: http://tinyurl.com/2hhud3
post #18 of 60
7/31/08 at 6:22pm
In reality, there is very little use of anesthesia on these poor babies. Don't let the notion that there is soothe you at all.
post #19 of 60
7/31/08 at 6:34pm
So what if they use anesthetic? It's not effective as they NEVER give it enough time to set in.

Not to mention that there's no anesthesia for afterwards when he's urinating and defecating all over an open wound.

Not to mention the most important fact - it's not just the surgery that's the wrong part...it's the taking away part of his body without his consent that is very useful to him and his future lovers. How would you feel if your parents cut something off you that was useful "just because"? ESPECIALLY if you're in that percentage with complications.

I hope that was harsh enough for you. I really hope you stand your ground for your son's sake and your own. If you do this, you'll never be able to justify it to yourself and you'll be kicking and hating yourself for waivering when you knew the right thing to do all along.
post #20 of 60
7/31/08 at 7:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2keira View Post
So I was so dead set against it- but DH feels the opposite way- no real reason he just thinks it's the "right" thing to do. As time goes on I am starting to waiver and though deep inside I know it's not the best thing for baby boy I wonder if it's really "that" bad since they use anesthetic etc. Please remind me why I was so set against it and why even though DH wants it done I must protect my son?
Because it is wrong. On many levels. Because you should not remove perfectly good body parts from somebody else if it is not necessary and they cannot make an informed decison. Here are some talking points:

Physicians have legal and ethical duties to their child-patient to render competent necessary care based on what the patient needs, not what someone else, including a parent, expresses.

The child has a legal right to bodily integrity. Upon reaching adulthood, the child may have a right to sue to recover damages for injuries or unnecessary surgery sustained in childhood.

The parent must ethically and legally make decisions for the child based solely on the best interests of the child.

Circumcision amputates approximately 50 percent of the heavily innervated skin and mucosa of the penis, tissue that is a specific erogenous zone. The foreskin contains three to four feet of blood vessels, 240 feet of nerves, and 10-20,000 specialized nerve endings. Excision of the foreskin renders the remaining skin taut and immovable, eliminates its protective, sensory, and sexual functions, and destroys the gliding action of the foreskin, changing the natural mechanics of normal human reproduction.

Circumcision puts the patient at risk of surgical mishap, adhesions, meatitis, meatal ulceration, infections, bleeding, and even death. The recent fast spread of MRSA in the US. is an example. Circumcision exposes the infant to risk of exposure to MRSA and other antibiotic resistent bacteria. While MRSA and other Antibiotic resistent bacteria can be spread by skin contact, they become ever more dangerous if they enter through a cut or open wound. Some recently circumcised boys have died from MRSA when their bodies did not respond to anti-biotic treatment. Others required treatment with the most recent experimental antibiotics. One boy who recently recovered now has an enlarged heart; that will cause lifetime consequences for him. The most recent statistics indicate that in 2007, more persons have died from MRSA in the US than from AIDS.

Circumcision is an extremely painful procedure with long-lasting post-operative pain.

Circumcision creates an abnormal physical appearance with a disfiguring scar encircling the shaft of the penis and the glans penis permanently exposed to drying, abrasion, and mechanical injury.

There is absolutely no reason why circumcision can not be done later, when the child is old enough to make a legally informed decision. Potentially this causes less harm to sexual function and appearance, based upon typical growth patterns and the Doctor's ability to predict outcomes before sexual maturity.

A common error made by those who want to justify infant male circumcision on the basis of medical benefits is that they believe that as long as some such benefits are present, circumcision can be justified as therapeutic, in the sense of preventive health care.

This is not correct.

A medical-benefits or 'therapeutic' justification requires that:

1) overall the medical benefits sought outweigh the risks and harms of the procedure required to obtain them,
2) that this procedure is the only reasonable way to obtain these benefits, and
3) that these benefits are necessary to the well-being of the child.

None of these conditions is fulfilled for routine infant male circumcision.

RIC is wrong morally and philosophically. If someone chooses to advocate for RIC, they must be the one to provide arguments why the advantages outweigh the moral and philosophical reasons against it. They must provide the references and you must be able to follow the logic.

The core issue is that it isn't your or your husband's penis. It's your son's penis. And your son is the person who has the right to decide how he wants his penis to look, function and feel. Not you, your husband, your relatives, or the Doctors. A newborn baby would never choose to have unnecessary surgery on himself.

Regards
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