The AUGUST Infertility One Thread - Page 4

[poetgirl]

Originally Posted by gumby74

Biomama: I hear ya on the scientific thinking. DH is a chemical engineer and when he first found out about it, he immediately went on the internet to research the abx and the effectiveness. In the end I am glad he did because he learned that it's important to not take the meds with prenatal vitamins because the iron messes with the absorption. It also can not be taken with fish oil.

You have such a healthy outlook on taking a break this cycle. Kudos to you

Gumby, Am I getting this right? Taking a high qual vitamin and fish oil while taking abx is not good? Please confirm! Golly, the stuff no one tells ya.

Biomama, I'm watching olympic swimming too! I'm so glad to hear your "break" is treating you well. It's pretty great to feel a little more normal for a month, like resetting with yourself before all this began. Many easy days ahead of you and lots of healing too.

Kim, I'm so happy you survived your lap and are on the mend. These procedures are hard emotionally esp. after so much other womb-intervention. Sending you healing vibes too. So glad that is behind you.

AFM~Well, I'm in an interesting place. We had done 4 failed clomid cycles, but the next step (inject/ivf) can't happen anytime soon because of the move and selling our house and being separated for a few mths, etc. SO in the wake of that, I read "Infertility Cure" and decided to do A LOT of natural health intervention. Other than low Prog., we are relatively "unexplained" and I started feeling there must be something else I could do. It's been intense but I am really noticing significant differences and for the first time in a year, my acup. says my pulses are finally normal. I feel a renewed sense of trust and at-homeness in my body. My intuition is practically screaming to me, which has been crazy. On cd 7, I "knew" we weren't going to make our IUI this month, somehow something would interfere, and then I had a weird opk situation and sure enough, we missed it. I keep having really interesting dreams too, giving birth, lying in a field filled with rising bread loaves, and last night I had my 3 animal dream--there were three unicorns running across the surface of the ocean and then three bats pollinating these huge trumpet flowers and so on. So, something interesting is happening here and I'm just kind of observing it curiously. It feels like a shift and whether anything comes of it or not, this improved health will help in future west. treatments and in the meantime, help me feel a little more vital than I have in a loooooonnng time. That's me. Today.
to all.

[kristenok18]

poetgirl- how interesting! I just started re-reading the Infertility Cure, and it's like the scales are falling from my eyes. I read (well, skimmed) it more than 2 years ago, but with all the tests/meds I've tried, my symptoms seem to have gotten worse, not better. I don't think I can afford to see a TCM practitioner for awhile (we're saving for a trip in Oct to see dh's family), but I'm going to try to implement some of the diet/lifestyle changes, and start dh and I on some different vitamins (we've both got IF issues). It's inspiring to hear all the changes happening to you! Can I ask, is your acup having you take lots of herbs?

[songbird45]

Updated to here

EastBayK - Glad to hear you survived the lap! It's a bit frustrating that they couldn't just give you a quick fix, but... there's always hope, I guess.

Lola88 - I have no advice, I have no idea how these things work. But I wanted to send a hug - these decisions are so heartbreaking.

biomama - thanks for your kind words. I'm coming to terms with it, and we'll get through it. I agree about taking a break once in a while. It's necessary to get some perspective and get off the rollercoaster.

poetgirl and kristinok - I talked to an acupuncturist who also recommended "The Infertility Cure" to me. Not sure what to think, exactly - she seemed to think I should stop eating all refined grains, sugar, and dairy. I'm vegetarian, and this doesn't leave me with any food to eat! She also said that if I like Indian food (I'm of Indian heritage) then I might as well stick to western medicine because Indian food is terrible for fertility. This doesn't seem right - India isn't exactly an underpopulated place, and I don't want to start eating meat. So I decided against the TCM route for now.. we'll see, maybe if I want a second child I'll think about it.

I had a + OPK last night and this morning, and an IUI this morning. Hopefully we'll see a temp spike tomorrow. :

[poetgirl]

Originally Posted by kristenok18

poetgirl- how interesting! I just started re-reading the Infertility Cure, and it's like the scales are falling from my eyes. I read (well, skimmed) it more than 2 years ago, but with all the tests/meds I've tried, my symptoms seem to have gotten worse, not better. I don't think I can afford to see a TCM practitioner for awhile (we're saving for a trip in Oct to see dh's family), but I'm going to try to implement some of the diet/lifestyle changes, and start dh and I on some different vitamins (we've both got IF issues). It's inspiring to hear all the changes happening to you! Can I ask, is your acup having you take lots of herbs?

Yes I've been taking herbs for about a year. They have been very helpful. If $$ is holding you back from exploring TCM, most pract. would likely let you come in once for an assessment and give you herbs from there, maybe coming back in every so often. At first that was how I did it. I had acup 1/mth and took herbs all month. Now that $5000 inject. are the next step so to speak, I decided that going to acup. every week for 3 mths was worth it before doing the inject. so that's where I'm at. GL Kristen!! I'll be thinking of you.

GL Songbird!!

Y'all I'm off on the roadtrip of a lifetime from CA to MI to move DH for his PhD program (probably collect a bfn in there somewhere but you never know). Won't be checking in until the 24th, so I really hope some of you get bfps while I'm gone.

[blueyezz4]

Originally Posted by songbird45

Updated to here

poetgirl and kristinok - I talked to an acupuncturist who also recommended "The Infertility Cure" to me. Not sure what to think, exactly - she seemed to think I should stop eating all refined grains, sugar, and dairy. I'm vegetarian, and this doesn't leave me with any food to eat! She also said that if I like Indian food (I'm of Indian heritage) then I might as well stick to western medicine because Indian food is terrible for fertility. This doesn't seem right - India isn't exactly an underpopulated place, and I don't want to start eating meat. So I decided against the TCM route for now.. we'll see, maybe if I want a second child I'll think about it.

I had a + OPK last night and this morning, and an IUI this morning. Hopefully we'll see a temp spike tomorrow. :

songbird45 - My acupuncturist also had me go on that diet as well. It kinda sucks at first, but you do find things to eat once you get used to it. I did it for awhile and still do try to avoid dairy and wheat most of the time. I like Indian food as well (haven't had it in forever, come to think of it), but had never heard that it is bad for your fertility?? Wonder why? Is it b/c they use a lot of dairy to make the sauces? Interesting!!! Good luck with your TWW now!!! How exciting!!

poetgirl - Good luck on the road trip! I sure hope you get a BFP somewhere along the way!! What a great story that would make!!! $5000 injections??? Holy crap!! What injection is that?? If i have to go that route i'll be sure to not get that one and ask for something else. Can you say break the bank!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[barose]

Subbing

My guess that Indian food is bad because of the dairy, but I'm not totally sure.

Right now, I am taking kelp and Bladderwrack for my "borderline" hypothyroid. I am also working out 5-6 days a week at an increased level (started 3 weeks ago). I remember when I did this in the past, I ovulated.

I MIGHT have ovulated this cycle (maybe CD 3) but this past weekend, I temped at 7:00 and 9:00 AM when I normally temp at 6:00AM so that can make things off.

I had tons of EWCM and OV pain before the temp shift (a first in MONTHS) so this might have been it. I wont know for a few days due to the time of mornings that I’ve been temping lately though.

[gumby74]

Poetgirl: Sorry I wasn't able to get back to you before you left. I wish I had the website to cite, but what dh found spicifically is that taking this particular abx with a multi-vitamin or fish oil causes the abx to no be absorbed correctly. I'm not sure if it applies to all abx or just this one, which is doxyclycline. Good luck with everything else you are doing. When we were ttc ds, I remember someone from San Francisco who was raving about all the great chinese acupuncturists there. San Francisco is my all time favorite city and hearing that made me want to get on the next plane and see a acupuncturist there. Acupuncture and suishi.....yum

[biomama]

poet, have a great trip! I hope you get your bfp on the way!!!

barose, do you have a chart for us to obsess over? Were you still bleeding on CD3, when you think you ovulated? That is the earliest I've heard of... I hope you caught the egg!

songbird45, GL!!! Hope the IUI went well. We're cheering for you in your tww!

about dairy: I'm confused... is dairy considered bad for fertility? In the fertility diet book, they said that women who consume whole milk dairy had higher fertility than women who consumed low fat dairy. (this is from the large scale observational nurses study). Who is saying now that dairy is bad??? Any evidence for this? I also would doubt Indian food decreases fertility because India has a very high birth rate

Lola, Kristen, others, anything new? How is everyone doing?

We have our follow up appointment with the RE about my polyp on Friday, so I'm excited to hear what he thinks and talk about our plan for what to do next. I hope he gives us good news!

[songbird45]

Right, exactly. So I guess in the TCM world dairy is a "high-hormone" food which can be a contributing factor for things like PCOS. Indian food has a lot of dairy and white rice and I guess white rice is bad too. I guess I am not willing to make such a dramatic change to my diet - never eating out again b/c I can't have refined sugar or white rice or dairy is just too extreme for me.

[kristenok18]

Originally Posted by songbird45

Right, exactly. So I guess in the TCM world dairy is a "high-hormone" food which can be a contributing factor for things like PCOS. Indian food has a lot of dairy and white rice and I guess white rice is bad too. I guess I am not willing to make such a dramatic change to my diet - never eating out again b/c I can't have refined sugar or white rice or dairy is just too extreme for me.

I would guess that the high percentage of white rice in Indian food, in addition to the refined grains in all the yummy breads, would be more harmful for those with pcos than the dairy. Have you tried just limiting refined grains (rather than all grains)? It isn't as hard as it seems, once you get going. Or switch to brown rice instead of white. I still have a hard time with that, but I started by mixing white and brown while cooking, and then adjusting the ratios as I grew more accustomed to it. I never thought I'd be able to give up refined sugars, and I still give in to cravings now and then. But since I've cut back I'm much more aware of how truly awful I feel if I eat them, which in turn makes it easier to avoid or at least limit quantity.

eta: a good compromise might be to make sure that if you are eating high-glycemic foods (such as rice), that you are pairing it with low-glycemic foods with high fiber and a good amount of protein.

[songbird45]

*nod* I've taken a moderation perspective. We eat whole wheat bread and brown rice. I try to make high-protein lunches and I snack on sunflower seeds and nuts. But I don't stress about the occasional cookie or chocolate bar, either - if I don't eat a lot of it, I don't feel crappy afterwards. I drink tea with milk and sugar, but I only put one packet of sugar in the raw, or about a half tsp of refined sugar in. Now that I've gotten used to it, more than that tastes too sweet. And every insulin and blood sugar test I've taken has indicated that I don't have insulin resistance problems, nor do I have problems controlling my weight.

The thing is, even though I believe that these things are healthier for me, they haven't actually resulted in cycles. Do I have to do something more dramatic (like drop dairy or start eating meat) to get cycles naturally? Is it really worth it?

ETA: one of the huge problems is eating at other people's homes or going out to eat. I really don't want to have to bring my own food to all these occasions because I'm on this weird diet that I can't explain to anybody.

[kristenok18]

Originally Posted by songbird45

*nod* I've taken a moderation perspective. We eat whole wheat bread and brown rice. I try to make high-protein lunches and I snack on sunflower seeds and nuts. But I don't stress about the occasional cookie or chocolate bar, either - if I don't eat a lot of it, I don't feel crappy afterwards. I drink tea with milk and sugar, but I only put one packet of sugar in the raw, or about a half tsp of refined sugar in. Now that I've gotten used to it, more than that tastes too sweet. And every insulin and blood sugar test I've taken has indicated that I don't have insulin resistance problems, nor do I have problems controlling my weight.

The thing is, even though I believe that these things are healthier for me, they haven't actually resulted in cycles. Do I have to do something more dramatic (like drop dairy or start eating meat) to get cycles naturally? Is it really worth it?

ETA: one of the huge problems is eating at other people's homes or going out to eat. I really don't want to have to bring my own food to all these occasions because I'm on this weird diet that I can't explain to anybody.

It sounds like you are doing the right stuff, and I'm confused about why your acupuncturist told you to stop eating Indian food. Did she question you in detail about what you eat, or just make a blanket statement? All the tests I've taken indicate I don't have IR either, but I have noticed significant changes in how I feel after eating certain types of foods. Do you keep a food journal? That helped me tremendously to see what proportions of fat/carb/protein/fiber I was actually eating (I also kept track of how I was feeling each day or after meals). I found that I do better (and feel better) on a higher protein diet (with similar amounts of carbs and healthy fats). Dh feels worse if he eats the proportions that work for me, since he seems predisposed to a higher-carb diet. It can get rather frustrating! Also, with journaling, you have the advantage of looking back over the course of time to see any patterns.

I hear you about being frustrated when eating out or at a friend's. I just go with the attitude that I will do the best I can with what's offered, and if I end up eating something I normally wouldn't, well that's okay. My elderly aunt is an incredible baker, and would never understand why I can't eat one of her bars or piece of pie. Not to mention she has a very fragile ego that is completely reliant upon her prowess in the kitchen!

[songbird45]

Well this was sort of an initial consult - I didn't end up going to her for acupuncture because I didn't feel our personalities meshed well. I was sort of feeling her out and deciding if I wanted to give acupuncture a shot.

What she said was something along the lines of, "I have no interest in lecturing you on nutrition, and if you're going to eat a traditional Indian diet I don't think acupuncture is going to help you and you should stick to Western medicine."

Basically she made it sound like acupuncture wouldn't help unless I totally revamped my diet in a way that sounded undoable to me.

The food journal idea is a good one. So far I haven't noticed any difference in how I feel or in my cycles, but I'm not tracking my moods / energy levels very meticulously. I do know that after eating three mini kit kat bars after dinner yesterday (which was stir fry over brown rice) I finally felt satisfied. I was full after the meal, but satisfied after the chocolate. There's more to food than nutrition, I think.

[kristenok18]

Originally Posted by songbird45

There's more to food than nutrition, I think.

I'm about to run out the door, but Omg, yes!!!!! Way more! Just the way our brains respond chemically to different foods is astounding. Makes it incredibly fascinating and a bit overwhelming, imho!

[poetgirl]

Originally Posted by blueyezz4

poetgirl - Good luck on the road trip! I sure hope you get a BFP somewhere along the way!! What a great story that would make!!! $5000 injections??? Holy crap!! What injection is that?? If i have to go that route i'll be sure to not get that one and ask for something else. Can you say break the bank!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blue, That is how much it would cost us OOP for ONE cycle of injectible fert. drugs (like gonal-f shots) which is where we're headed since Clomid bought the farm for me so to speak. Perhaps that explains why I am gung-ho full-flung into natural methods of enhancing fert. For now.

SO I am still here . Thank You Everyone so much for your good wishes for us! We got an offer yesterday. It's less than we wanted but...we need to move on and after 100 days on the market, we are taking it. I am still coming back here for Sept. to settle things but knowing I have a "way out" will make it just fine.
I am really crampy in the uterus? Like low-grade menstrual cramps.
Temps aren't wildly high. 6 dpo. We'll see...

Gumby, Thanks for the explanation!

Songbird, I agree, that acup. doesn't sound great imho. This is a great chance to have an incredibly supportive other person and a welcome break from the western docs. I hope you can find someone who is gentle and feels better. Re: the indian food thing...well, nutrition and health has always been a side hobby for me, so I consider myself fairly well read and I have never heard that before. Now if she thought you had too much kidney yang or something, she might have thought the spices would be aggravating to your system. I don't think you need to eat meat at all. Adding more whole grains, legumes, nuts, avocado, olive oil all . I know some veggie women who just added organic eggs and were happy with that, if you're so inclined.

Bio, Dairy is a conundrum. It's like they do these studies and give blanket advice, as in full fat organic dairy could be good for O in some women, but from a TCM point of view, if you have polyps, fibriods, etc. it's considered congesting and stagnating. I was doing quite a bit of organic dairy (in part to gain weight) and after the whole polyp thing, I cut back. I really think it's bad/good depending on your constitution and where your imbalances lie, i.e. I have a cold system and the chi doesn't move so well=dairy not great for me.

Kristen, I'll be curious to see where you're at with everything when I return!!! I've been esp. interested in the connection between fert. and liver health: http://www.motherlove.com/faq_infertility.php
And also I have come to LOVE kombucha:
http://www.kombucha-lm.com/what_is_kombucha.htm

Until then, happy healthy-ish eating :. As Songbird elluded, if it doesn't taste good, that's a fair marker too.

[crystal-mommy]

Eastbay k I am glad to hear you recovered quickly from your surgery! I wouldn't wish the discomfort on my worst enemy!! Hopefully you get your BFP soon!!


Songbird My hubby is also laid off! He will be going back to work soon... hopefully!

AAM Just got back from a mini vacation. Have almost returned back to normal after my lap. I never dreamed it would take me almost 2 weeks to start feeling better and like my insides hadn't been ripped apart!! (I had a gallbladder out a couple of years ago and was @ walmart shopping the very next day!!) so was really surprised I felt like crap for that long. Still have some bruising on my stomach, but I no longer look like I am 5 mo. preg and can button my pants!

Didn't really get to use my opk's cause of the traveling, not temping this month cause I knew it would be hard w/ the surg and irregular sleeping w/ vacation, and no ovulation pain this month. SOOOO, not really sure if I O'd or not... yay me!! I guess I will just have to wait and see what my progesterone level is in a couple of days.

[Lola88]

Hi All! Thank you so much for letting me know about these grea books. I am learning a lot about my diet (which definiyely needs more than a few changes!) and I am hoping that that will make the difference that we need. We have decided to forego IUI for this month, and just take the clomid and see what happens. The timing this month is just off, as I am a school counselor, and we start back next week!! Does anyone know if just taking the clomid is even a good idea, or should we just scrap everything until September? All of these decisions are making me crazy!!

Again, thanks for EVERYONE's kind words of encouragement and wonderful advice!

Good luck to all this week......

[blueRhino]

Originally Posted by songbird45

Updated to here



poetgirl and kristinok - I talked to an acupuncturist who also recommended "The Infertility Cure" to me. Not sure what to think, exactly - she seemed to think I should stop eating all refined grains, sugar, and dairy. I'm vegetarian, and this doesn't leave me with any food to eat! She also said that if I like Indian food (I'm of Indian heritage) then I might as well stick to western medicine because Indian food is terrible for fertility. This doesn't seem right - India isn't exactly an underpopulated place, and I don't want to start eating meat. So I decided against the TCM route for now.. we'll see, maybe if I want a second child I'll think about it.

I have been doing acupuncture with TCM and the woman I see specialized is IF, is Chinease, and hasn't actually brought up diet with me at all. She once mentioned not to drink too much coffee (but that was after I mentioned it had been affecting my sleep). Just saying I wouldn't rule out TCM on account of that once person because I don't think everyone would give you that advice. GL whatever route you take though.

[crystal-mommy]

Originally Posted by Lola88

Hi All! Thank you so much for letting me know about these grea books. I am learning a lot about my diet (which definiyely needs more than a few changes!) and I am hoping that that will make the difference that we need. We have decided to forego IUI for this month, and just take the clomid and see what happens. The timing this month is just off, as I am a school counselor, and we start back next week!! Does anyone know if just taking the clomid is even a good idea, or should we just scrap everything until September? All of these decisions are making me crazy!!

Again, thanks for EVERYONE's kind words of encouragement and wonderful advice!

Good luck to all this week......

I took Clomid for 2 months.. made me feel like crap. BUT @ least I felt like I was doing something productive. Are they going to monitor your cycle w/ blood work and U/S?

[EastbayK]

ARG!!! MDC just ate my long winded, philosophizing, waxing poetic post. I'll recreate it later.

Today is CD 1 for me. Time to get started again.

kim