Our children, marketing, and consumerism - Page 3

[KaraBoo]

It's so weird seeing a mother who wants less consumerism in her child's life be sort of stomped on while on a natural parenting website.

[Sierra]

I feel pretty confident my post wasn't stomping on anyone. I thought it was fair and balanced.

[Mom2Boy&Girl]

Originally Posted by KaraBoo

It's so weird seeing a mother who wants less consumerism in her child's life be sort of stomped on while on a natural parenting website.

See, I didn't get that all reading through the posts. I think it's safe to say that most of us on this site want less consumerism in their children's lives. It's just that I personally think that American Girl dolls aren't the biggest offenders of indoctrinating our girls into our consumer world.

Perhaps I should turn in my natural parenting ID card at the desk??

[queenjane]

Originally Posted by KaraBoo

It's so weird seeing a mother who wants less consumerism in her child's life be sort of stomped on while on a natural parenting website.

Well i guess if you consider "given another point of view" stomped on.....?

Actually, I think despite the thread title, this thread wasnt really about consumerism at all.


Katherine

[Azuralea]

Originally Posted by queenjane

Well i guess if you consider "given another point of view" stomped on.....?

Actually, I think despite the thread title, this thread wasnt really about consumerism at all.

ITA. I normally can go around saying : to velochic's posts, but this one I don't agree with.

If I saw a bunch of kids dressed up like their favorite dolls and carrying their favorite dolls, I'd be more worried about the lesson I'd be imparting to DS by calling them creepy clones and demonstrating a leap to that conclusion than about the power of Mattel. We're TV-free, we live quite without a lot of outside influence from popular culture, yet I see no reason to dump on kids who like their dolls.

[queenjane]

Originally Posted by Azuralea

If I saw a bunch of kids dressed up like their favorite dolls and carrying their favorite dolls, I'd be more worried about the lesson I'd be imparting to DS by calling them creepy clones and demonstrating a leap to that conclusion than about the power of Mattel

This is what i'm still confused about. Were the girls dressed like their *dolls* or were they just dressed like each other (and their moms)....the OP said the girls were wearing lots of makeup, highlighted hair, and bare midriffs...this doesnt sound at ALL like the AG dolls i've seen (who are dressed in historical outfits)...what were the dolls wearing?

I still think its likely that maybe the group was coming from somewhere (a dance recital?? A sleepover/makeover party??) where their outfits made more sense...i'm just having a hard time picturing this group and how every single one of them looked the same, and still trying to fit it into the whole American Doll thing. The Bratz movie, now that would fit.


Katherine

[mamazee]

If the girls were dressed up to look sexy, they weren't dressed like American Girl dolls. Those dolls' dress style is pretty darn modest. I don't doubt there were girls dressed too maturely at the movie, but that isn't due to American Girls.

I like the dolls. The movie sounds good. I'll probably take my daughter to it at some point. We don't watch a lot of movies and we just saw Wall-E so it might not be until it's out on DVD, but we'll probably see it eventually. She doesn't have an American Girls doll at this point but I wouldn't rule out her getting one in the future. They're nice dolls, and I've seen much more expensive dolls and things recommended to people at MDC so I don't see how the cost makes them any more of an issue than Waldorf dolls or something like that.

[Azuralea]

The highlighted hair, makeup, etc. is not great, and I would never permit it myself, but in terms of taught lessons to children, I think immediately classifying children as "clones" or "creepy" just because of how they look on the surface is just as bad, if not worse. Like I said, that's the lesson I'd be a lot more concerned about.

[honeybee]

Just to derail this thread a little more...

A pp mentioned how AG dolls are no more designed just to "sell, sell, sell" than Nancy Drew books were... well, do you know how Nancy Drew was originally created? The creator was a mass-marketing specialist who created concept series books with the express intent of appealing to a certain demographic and making the most copies possible. A fictional "author" of Caroline Keene was created, and a few different lower-paid ghost writers were used over the years to write the stories. When ND first came out, it was considered the equivalent of "junk" to the literary-minded, and was criticized as corrupting young minds. The series is updated every generation to make Nancy a bit more "modern." So, I would say Nancy Drew books are actually a sterling example of commercialism/consumerism. I'm sure if the creator/publisher had thought at the time to include a whole line of toys and merchandise to go with the books, it would have been done.

I still love Nancy Drew, though. And I'm sure I would've loved AGD, as a kid, too. Actually, as a doll lover, I think they're great even now.

Everything being sold is marketed to a certain demographic... including the Waldorf dolls and natural products, etc. Every product is selling "something" along with the item. At least AGD are also selling history, diversity, and a natural, age-appropriate appearance. Of course, I would want to know about how/where the dolls are made, and whether people are being exploited in their creation, which would balance whether I would spend my money there... but the fact that they were created to make a profit doesn't make them different from anything else being sold, kwim?

[Sierra]

Yeah, when I talked about Nancy Drew I was responding to the OP who said she expected the Kit movie to be like Nancy Drew, which I was pointing out also needed to be sold .

[karina5]

Originally Posted by velochic

Sorry, it just sounds like another means to allow those that can afford it to be included and those that cannot to be excluded.

We can certainly afford it. It's the principle of the matter. Like I said, I can't put my finger on it, but I just hate blind conformity! These girls and women all looked like clones from a marketing campaign.

I work in a library. I know there are other ways to encourage kids to read other than obtrusive marketing.

(Bolding mine)...But blind conformity *IS* the norm. Back in the Roaring 20's anyone cool had a bob and a flapper dress. And you've seen pictures of the screaming girls for the Beatles, right? They had their Beatles and all the stuff to go with it - records, posters, dolls, books. People conform b/c - for the most part - they want to fit in.

Even those on the fringe still look like each other. I laughed one day waaay back when me and all my punk friends thought we were SO counter culture - yet we all had on black combat boots, black leather jackets, similar jewelry, dyed hair and were diggin' on the Cure.

And all my super crunchy friends look alike, too. Heck, they even SMELL alike, lol (Dr. Bronner Peppermint soap and garlick-y).

I mean, people conform. It's not really anything new.

[Teensy]

I'm still trying to get a visual picture of what these girls looked like. I'd love the OP to give a more detailed description - Did the girls have long hair? Short? Wearing ponytails? Bows? Headbands? Were they wearing dresses? Were the girls dressed like one another? Or dressed like their dolls?

The Kit outfit sold by American Girl Kit outfit is so modest (a sweater set and pleated skirt), it hard to imagine that is the outfit that shocked the OP.

Did they all have Kit dolls? Or just 18" dolls (American Girl or My Generation or similar)? Or just various dolls?

OP seemed so shocked by what she saw, but I can't really picture it.

FWIW, I'm taking my DD to brunch at the American Girl Place in NYC next week. She and her Bitty Baby doll may be dressed alike, as they do own matching lavender dresses that I bought.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by velochic

I cannot wrap my head around this issue. I took dd to the movies yesterday. We were planning on seeing this Kit Kittredge movie we'd seen trailers for.

When we got to the theater, there were about 25 girls, all carrying these DOLLS around. I admit that we are not in touch with pop culture and I LIKE it that way. We do watch TV, but dd's favorite shows are I Love Lucy and Beverly Hillbillies.

Standing in (the very long) line, I found out that the dolls the girls were holding were American Girl dolls (first I knew of them), the Kit Kittredge is an American Girl, and that the dolls, from which there is an entire marketing enterprise, are extremely expensive - they are a status symbol for little 7 year olds. Upon further inspection, all of these little girls were dressed the same (quite provocatively for such young girls), having the same hair bands, same professionally highlighted hair, with painted nails and some even had on makeup.

I wanted to see it because the movie was about the Great Depression. Getting by on very little. Making it on a shoe string and helping each other. I just don't get it. The commercialism, consumption, and blind acceptance of marketing that is around us makes me want to :Puke sometimes.

We went to another movie. Luckily, dd didn't notice anything about the dolls.

Can I speak for myself for one minute and say, that this is my original post. It was indeed about consumerism. At first, I thought it was directly correlated with the American Girl dolls (which I didn't know much about at the time). I then said that upon further research, I was wrong and it seemed to be more of an issue with consumerism in general/ the pressures we put on girls in this society than any issue with American Dolls, and that while they are still a money-marketing machine we'll stay away from, doesn't seem to be the root of what I perceived as a very creepy situation.

Yes... creepy. Yes, it is weird, IMHO, to see little girls all trying to LOOK the same. Dressing the same was not enough. They looked the same. Obviously it has nothing to do with the American Girl dolls, (as I already stated), it's an issue with raising our daughters to think that to fit in you have to LOOK like you fit in.

I will say that I'm enjoying the thoughts and ideas expressed here. I don't feel "bashed", although some comments are harsh, I like lively public debate. Carry on...

ETA: based on last post... the dolls didn't look the same, the girls did and I didn't note every single feature of them. They simply looked the same. Some were blond already, the others had obviously highlighted hair (I know... with my grey, I've been getting my hair colored since my early 30's), some had just bikini tops on, the rest had on shirts that were tied up to show their belly buttons. I saw a lot of painted nails and eyeshadow. I couldn't tell if all of them had make up because some were wearing the big sunglasses (one little girl said hers were some "name", but I neither remember nor recognized it). The mothers looked the same.

[Hoopin' Mama]

Originally Posted by velochic

ETA: based on last post... the dolls didn't look the same, the girls did and I didn't note every single feature of them. They simply looked the same. Some were blond already, the others had obviously highlighted hair (I know... with my grey, I've been getting my hair colored since my early 30's), some had just bikini tops on, the rest had on shirts that were tied up to show their belly buttons. I saw a lot of painted nails and eyeshadow. I couldn't tell if all of them had make up because some were wearing the big sunglasses (one little girl said hers were some "name", but I neither remember nor recognized it). The mothers looked the same.

I saw this the other day too, lots of tanned skin showing, professionally done hair, etc. I commented to dh that if we had a girl that would make me crazy. Dh pointed out that the Moms looked like different Moms than me (meaning I'm a plain jane and they had manicures, highlighted hair, makeup, lots of tanned skin showing). Honestly though, I don't think that matters. They aren't trying to fit in with their Moms, they want to fit in with each other.