Offensive sign at cafe - Page 2

[nancyw]

Originally Posted by MommyJoia

oooohhhh.... sounds like a wonderful place to hold a nurse in. I would love to go to Hawaii...

::

[Arwyn]

It's offensive because it implies nursing women would ordinarily NOT be as discreet as worked for them and their babies; that we're all just immature activists who get off on being as in-your-face as possible. It's offensive because I would spend the entire time wondering if I, who pull my quite large breasts out to nurse and have a toddler who likes to pop off, was being "discreet enough" (likely not; I'm not even "discreet enough" for a lot of fellow lactivists), and would likely try to not even nurse there. It's offensive because it places one group of diners and their desires (the squeamish) above another group (nursing women and breastfeeding children). It's offensive because it implies theres something wrong with glimpsing a functional breast (which is doubly ironic coming from the land of bikinis). It's offensive because it further discourages the timid nursing woman from nursing in public, thereby reducing her likelihood of offering full-term nursing to her child.

It's really, really offensive.

[nancyw]

Originally Posted by Arwyn

It's offensive because it implies nursing women would ordinarily NOT be as discreet as worked for them and their babies; that we're all just immature activists who get off on being as in-your-face as possible. It's offensive because I would spend the entire time wondering if I, who pull my quite large breasts out to nurse and have a toddler who likes to pop off, was being "discreet enough" (likely not; I'm not even "discreet enough" for a lot of fellow lactivists), and would likely try to not even nurse there. It's offensive because it places one group of diners and their desires (the squeamish) above another group (nursing women and breastfeeding children). It's offensive because it implies theres something wrong with glimpsing a functional breast (which is doubly ironic coming from the land of bikinis). It's offensive because it further discourages the timid nursing woman from nursing in public, thereby reducing her likelihood of offering full-term nursing to her child.

It's really, really offensive.

HOLY COW, ARWYN!!!!!! Now, THAT should be copied and mailed to the cafe.

[Ruthla]

Originally Posted by Arwyn

It's offensive because it further discourages the timid nursing woman from nursing in public, thereby reducing her likelihood of offering full-term nursing to her child.

That is my biggest beef with signs like this. If I still had a nursling (newborn or 3yo or anywhere in between) it wouldnt' affect my confidence nursing there- I'm strong enough to nurse wherever my child needs to nurse. But there are women who are new at this and uncomfortable, and being made to feel uncomfortable NIPing can make her hesitant to ever NIP again, which can lead to premature weaning.

[odenata]

Originally Posted by Arwyn

It's offensive because it further discourages the timid nursing woman from nursing in public, thereby reducing her likelihood of offering full-term nursing to her child.

I have to say, I'm a shy, non-confrontational person, and that sign would make me feel singled-out enough that I wouldn't nurse there. Of course, I also wouldn't step foot in there, and I would encourage everyone I knew not to go there, either. If it was a place I used to frequent, I would probably write a letter to them letting them know that their sign is losing them business.

[kriket]

Originally Posted by Arwyn

It It's offensive because it further discourages the timid nursing woman from nursing in public, thereby reducing her likelihood of offering full-term nursing to her child.

thats the saddest part, and you are totally right. You articulated what I was thinking

[Arwyn]

Originally Posted by nancyw

HOLY COW, ARWYN!!!!!! Now, THAT should be copied and mailed to the cafe.

I guess anyone who wanted to use it would be free to quote me. My giant mammaries can be famous all across the Pacific!

[mytwogirls]

Well, I could use a vacation, so let's go to Hawaii! How offensive by the way.

[LittlePeanut]

Originally Posted by Mbella

That is disappointing. I heard Hawaii is pretty NIP friendly.

I don't think judging an entire State based on a single establishment (who is clearly in the wrong here) is prudent. Just as it is not prudent to paint all nursing mamas with the same brush as they are clearly doing with that sign.

Hawaii IME IS NIP friendly and this place does need some education in the matter. I'm not sure jumping to a nurse-in/out is the right thing but certainly approaching management in a non-confrontational manner may better further the cause. Still, who wouldn't enjoy a little vacation in Hawaii?

LP

[ramama]

Even if I weren't a nursing mom, even if I weren't a mother or a woman even, I would be offended by this sign. Not only is it obviously offensive and discriminatory to nursing women and their children, it also makes the assumption that non-nursing people are too stupid to know what breasts are for and assumes that the other patrons will be squeamish about a BFing mother.

[tanyam926]

This just reminds me that at this point in history it is acceptable to discriminate against BF mothers and babies on the grounds that it makes others uncomfortable.

Well, not so long ago there were many things that made others uncomfortable (I am thinking along the lines of interracial restaurants and dating, people w/disabilities, etc) which were also acceptable to discriminate against. From my knowledge of history (and correct me if I am wrong) people did not just come to accept these things on their own. First, the gov. had to make laws protecting the rights of those affected, then ENFORCE the laws, then social views started to change. As a pp mentioned it would be terribly un PC to feel disgusted/complain about watching a mentally challenged person eat in a restaurant and there would be an outcry from society if that were to happen.

Unfortunately mamas, it is acceptable in our society to shame us, humiliate us, have public debates on whether we should be ALLOWED to BF, etc, all the while saying that BF is best.

So what do we do? Sometimes we have to push back (in a figurative sense ) in order to ensure that we are protected. Unfortunately, as the laws in most states clearly show, the gov. does not care to protect us and even when they put something that looks good in writing they fail to enforce it.

And, FTR having worked w/BF moms and babies for the last 8 1/2 yrs I have known far too many moms who are BF and feel uncomfortable doing so in public, some give bottles when out of the house bc of this (which CAN and often does cause great harm to the BF relationship and to the mom's confidence).

Sorry so long winded, I feeling wordy today!

[didkisa]

Originally Posted by meganmarie

Oh, heck. Why didn't they just write a sign that says: "dear nursing mamas: we are in dire need of a smack-down, so please hold your nurse-in outside our cafe as soon as possible"

Seriously, if I were you I'd gather up my local LLL chapter and have the next meeting right there.

:::::n ak:

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Now if that's not a roll-out-the-red-carpet open invitation for a nurse-in, I don't know what is!! More power to all of you in HI that can make it happen! I can't wait to hear an update from anyone willing to take them on.

[Night_Nurse]

Originally Posted by MommyJoia

oooohhhh.... sounds like a wonderful place to hold a nurse in. I would love to go to Hawaii...

Me too and I haven't been nursing for years. I could hold a sign though...

[julie128]

I believe that sign to be illegal. Hawaii's laws on breastfeeding:

Hawaii Rev. Stat. § 367-3 (1999) requires the Hawaii Civil Rights Commission to collect, assemble, and publish data concerning instances of discrimination involving breastfeeding or expressing breast milk in the workplace. Prohibits employers to forbid an employee from expressing breast milk during any meal period or other break period. (HB 266)

Hawaii Rev. Stat. § 378-2 (1999) provides that it is unlawful discriminatory practice for any employer or labor organization to refuse to hire or employ, or to bar or discharge from employment, or withhold pay, demote, or penalize a lactating employee because an employee breastfeeds or expresses milk at the workplace. (HB 2774)

Hawaii Rev. Stat. § 489.21 and 489-22 provides that it is a discriminatory practice to deny, or attempt to deny, the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, priviledge, advantages, and accommodations of a place of public accommodations to a woman because she is breast feeding a child.

[MaryJaneLouise]

Please report this to http://www.firstright.org/ and ask their advice on how to proceed. This is very clearly bfing discrimination.

[Rogelito's Mommy]

I just went back to the cafe and the sign has been removed...so someone must have said something. Yeah!

[littlest birds]

So discreet in whose opinion? How about anything goes except wearing a pullover dress and completely removing it to nurse? Isn't keep your shirt on at all pretty durn discreet?


I hope and expect someone reminded them, after one customer voiced an objection to a woman nursing, that breastfeeding women are equally customers they need to please as well. I am sure one offended person inspired the sign, which seems to have even attempted politeness, wrong as it was.

[mama_daba]

very glad it was removed

[Sagesgirl]

Originally Posted by julie128

Hawaii Rev. Stat. § 489.21 and 489-22 provides that it is a discriminatory practice to deny, or attempt to deny, the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, priviledge, advantages, and accommodations of a place of public accommodations to a woman because she is breast feeding a child.

Perhaps someone showed them the law. If I recall correctly, there is actually a possibility of a small ($100-$150ish) civil fine if anyone files a complaint because they were asked to stop breastfeeding. It's discrimination.

I saw plenty of offensive stuff when we lived in Hawaii. Specifically, idiot tourists who thought it was 100% appropriate to go everywhere in nothing but a bikini, not to mention all the XXX movie stores in Waikiki!

I'm very surprised to read of something like this in Hawaii. Sheesh, I sat in the front row at church & nursed through the whole service when we lived there, & no one blinked an eye! (Well, I do the same thing here in Texas too...)

[LittlePeanut]

I'm pleased to hear the sign was removed. I'd still love to hear the story behind its creation as well as its demise.

LP