sleep - I can't CIO, I can't co-sleep, I can't breastfeed, I can't nightwean!!!!! - Page 2

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Re: sleep - I can't CIO, I can't co-sleep, I can't breastgeed, I can't nightwean!!!!!

Originally posted by JessicaSpalding
She is waking up in bed, sitting up and crying and screaming while I am RIGHT THERE IN BED WITH HER.

I just read your OP again. I had an epiphany! My daughter went through a strange stage around a year where she NEEDED to cry before she would fall asleep. It was so long ago that I had forgotten about it. I can’t believe it. I promised myself that I would never forget because it was so hard for us to figure out.

We are so programmed, as mothers, to stop our babies from crying that I think it is really easy for things like this to go over us. Perhaps your daughter needs to cry.

For about 1.5 months my daughter would pull off the boob and turn away from me and just belt out a big cry before sighing and falling to sleep.
After I figured it out we had a great few months until she had a different need that I needed to get hip to.

We’re in the nightmare stage right now. Let me tell you that it’s different, but not much easier at 2 years.

Luckily, there is an ebb and flow to the challenges and you will soon find yourself on an easy stretch. It’s so easy to get caught up in thinking that we are doing something wrong or that we could do something to help when I think often the challenges are just there to wade though and wait out. It will be over soon even if you choose to do nothing more than wait.

My father, who’s youngest iof 5 is 11years old, tells me that parenting never gets easier…the challenges just change around. BUT you will be sleeping through the night when she’s 11 !!!

[mumsymimi]

My daughter went through a strange stage around a year where she NEEDED to cry before she would fall asleep.

HannahSims, that is such a good point. I have always fallen into the trap of thinking that I MUST stop my children's crying, that if they're crying I am doing something wrong (maybe I wasn't allowed to cry as a child?). What I have learned and have to always remind myself of, is that sometimes kids need a good cry. Especially at the end of the day. It helps relieve their tension. When they're very small, and often even when they're older, they can't just sit there and tell us with words how they're feeling or what's all bottled up inside them. So they cry. They need to vent too, like we do when we come home from a bad day at work, or have a horrible dream, or have a conflict with someone in our lives. The times I remember to just let my kids cry, to get their feelings out, while being supportive (instead of trying to fix it) we all feel much better.

Michelle

[QueeTheBean]

Not any real advice here--just extreme sympathy. Nothing feels right when you don't get your sleep & it makes the whole day miserable (if mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy).

My 2 have been fairly good sleepers, with pockets of resistance here and there (this week for example!).

I did read the book "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child"--(I forget the author's name--starts with a W??). I didn't like all of it & ignored bits of it completely, but did like the main gist of it--that putting our kids to be EARLIER--before they get wound up & overtired will = better sleep. Sounds similar to other books mentioned here. Mine both go to bed at 7:30.

Well, I am sure you have plenty of other things to read & try, but basically I just wanted to offer my support. Good luck!

[JessicaSpalding]

oh my gosh. What fabulous, wonderful, insightful comments!Thank you all so much.

HannahSims, that is really great information about the crying. And I recognize that exact "venting" with dd. In fact, DH is better about having a complete "conversation" with her in this regard: she cries, "wah wah wah" and dh replies, "yeah, wah wah wah, you played with Madeline today". She isn't really crying, she is doing the baby version of "blah blah". And he validates what she is saying with the tone of his voice. It's really sweet and they are totally communicating. He says that she pats him on the arm while they are doing this. Which brings me to mumsymimi's comments about telling us about her day. Wow, what insight!

Let's see, Beanma, I have tried to let dd stay up late. And she is a night owl, it's something she inherited from me. The problem is, I have a sleep problem. I will go to bed one hour later every night, and wake up an hour later, so I have to discipline myself to get up at the same time every day. It's just too depressing otherwise, and we were missing storytimes and playgroups and other fun stuff. And I can't do the open ended day. I need an ending. I did that for almost the whole year, and it's getting me down, with the lack of a "nap break". What you described with your dd is exactly our scene with the nap - intense "sneak away" radar.

I haven't really nightweaned. I still think it's too early, and I just hate to take something away that she so obviously loves and needs. That just seems so unfair.

So here is where we are. We didn't really plan on doing this, but this was the one thing we hadn't tried: sleeping in the "dreaded crib". She had begun to take these really long 3 hour naps. I don't think she EVER took a 3 hour nap after 3 months old. Meanwhile, I was nursing her to sleep sometimes, but when that wasn't working I would call Daddy in to rock her to sleep. It seemed that she would fall asleep easier, faster and deeper in his lap. We went through a month of this, letting her sleep on Daddy for a couple of hours. Then we started putting her down, first on the bed, then we tried the crib. The first night we got her to sleep in the crib (no CIO) she slept SOOO soundly and so well that I layed in bed and wept and sobbed because I missed her so very much. I love sleeping with her. But she slept for 5 hours for 3 nights in a row, and those days she took 1 1/2 to 2 or 3 hour naps. I just couldn't believe it. My conclusion is that she wasn't sleeping well in bed with us AT ALL. I wasn't sleeping well, either. I actually think that she was sleeping so poorly (co-sleeping) that she has been overtired, heck, maybe for months. Certainly since 7 months. It was the last thing I wanted to try, but man, it is working. And she seems to love her "little bed". Her Daddy is able to pat her back to sleep, and on a couple of occaisions, she has done her monotone "sleep moan" and put herself back to sleep!

Now, I don't know how long this will last. And while I haven't decided to nightwean, I kind of have. But she has been making up for it by needing to BF a whole lot during the day and needing to snuggle. I don't mind at all, because I need that closeness, too, now that I can't snuggle her at night

Another conclusion is that although she needed better quality sleep, she also needs her loves and cuddles. I'd bet this is true of all babies. On a side note (I know, I am rambling now) my SIL said that her 12mo ds was crying to come back into their bed (she didn't want to co-sleep) and she said, "I checked him, and he wasn't sick, he didn't need a new diaper, he was fine. He was just manipulating us because he wanted to be cuddled". She was saying that her baby's emotional needs just didn't count. How terribly sad it was to hear that.

We will see how this goes for a while, IF it goes for a while. I sure do miss her. It's so weird having breaks.

Again, thank you all for your considerable time in responding to my woes. You are all awesome Mommies!!

[beanma]

jessica,

i meant to say, having the REALLY big bed helped us a lot, can't remember if i mentioned that or not and i'm too lazy and it's too near bedtime (past midnight) for all of us for me to look.

we have a queen mattress and a twin mattress on the floor squooshed together. the twin is on a little frame of 2x4s i pounded together so it's the same height as the queen. we put a blanket over the crack so it's virtually seamless. we all sleep much better in this big bed than we did when we just had the queen. if we go out of town or have to sleep in just a queen for some reason, i can't sleep very well at all and dd tends to want to nurse all night because i'm so close. in the REALLY big bed, though, we all have our space and it works out much better.

you could try sidecarring your crib and see if that works and you get some sleep, but still get some closeness in, too.

sounds like things are working out better for you. hope it holds!!

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Hey, beanmama...

We have the same exact bed. We got Aya a twin about a year ago but just decided to move it on the floor with ours becasue we weren't using it otherwise. It's great.

JessicaSpalding...great news about the crib! Now that my daughter is 2, I have lots of days where I'm away for a while and I begin to miss her (something that didn't really get to happen at 1 year). I LOVE to miss my daughter! It fills me with love and energy to be with her fully.
I'm glad you found a solution.

[rrr]

hi, it's nice of mona to send you those threads. wish i knew how to do that.

calcium can be helpful or not, MAGNESIUM has a different purpose.

start by taking 250 mg magnesium oxide at bedtime with full water and another 250 in the middle of the night when you get up to pee.

if you can nap with baby, take a 1/2 tablet with water then, too.

even if nothing were to change with baby (but it will, of course), you will feel more rested and like you're getting more sleep.

a few of the problems addressed by magnesium:

sleeplessness, skeletal-muscular tension and pain, anxiety, depression, headache/migraine, constipation, asthma

and what i call the "nursing jitters".

you have to experiment with dose. if it sends you to the toilet, take less at a time or take a better absorbed form of magnesium, like magnesium glycinate. i would recommend starting with that, except that it's $20 for 100 tablets instead of $2.49 for 100 tablets.

if you google magnesium and depression, you'll find a guy who knows a ton about magnesium who has at least 2 sites.

let me know if this seems to help at all.

rrr

[rrr]

ideas for reducing night nursing:

1.NURSE FIRST, FOOD SECOND. or, offer food when the child is full of breastmilk. an imbalance of food to breastmilk leads the child to replace that milk at night. it takes a lot of liquid to process food, and there is no food as complex and easy to digest as breastmilk. of course, she's ready for food, just nurse first. babies will make up at night what they need.

2. PRIORITIZE AWAKE TIME NURSING SESSIONS. how can you make them more productive? are you stalling nursing if you're busy? are you offering food snacks until you can take a break to nurse? more breastmilk in the day, means less at night.

3. BREASTMILK AND WATER, NO JUICE or other beverages. she just can't get what she needs from these foods, and they can be very, very sweet. so she feels full and doesn't nurse well.

4. EVENING AND BEDTIME NURSING ARE BETTER THAN MIDNIGHT. make the most of all the nursing sessions that you are already awake for.

5. HAVE A NURSING DAY. a busy day filled with errands leads to a sleepless night, when it's unavoidable, follow up with a nursing day, where you get back on track.

when applied consistently, these actions can make a big difference.

rrr

[natashaccat]

have you tried wearing your toddler to sleep? like you could nurse your toddler and then but her some type of body to body carrier like the baby trekker.

[JessicaSpalding]

natashacat, I used to use the sling constantly when she was little, but now that she is 25lbs it's difficult to use the sling. I have two backpacks, but I would wake her up getting her out of them. I wish, wish I could still do this - she loved it and always slept.

However, I do use the sling to get her calm before bed if she seems overly excited, and that works well.

Jessica