Partying with the kids in the house?

[OhDang]

Among other things..
Okay, so my older sister is a single mom, with two girls, (lets call them) Anna is 7 and Natalie is 6. My sister is only 22 so she had her kids very young. She acts like she is a teenager though.

The girls have grown up very fast because of the way their mom has raised them. They watch The girls next door with their mom all the time, and the simple life. (she has both seasons on DVD and thats the girls favorite thing to watch). She doesn't allow them to ever watch cartoons or little kid shows or listen to kid music because she hates it.

That isn't too horrible i guess but the things that make me ill is the way she talks to them. She talks to them like they are her 18 year old friends. She will come into a room they are in and say "Hey bitches!" She is saying this in a 'loving' way but i think it's so weird still. One of their biggest games is she will go up to them and say, "Natalie you aint shit." And laugh. Then natalie will say, "mommy i am the shit." My sister thinks this is HILARIOUS.

And since she doesn't have a lot of babysitters, she will just have a ton of people over with the girls there. Which is fine, but sometimes people get really drunk and i don't know if thats okay to see a bunch of people doing keg stands at such a young age. I have babysat them before so she could do her thing, but I can't do it everyday since i already have kids to watch.

I guess this is a rant but it's really the wierdest thing i have ever seen.

[Mama Poot]

I don't know the specifics but I think what your sister is doing is borderline abusive. I had a friend in school whose mother did this kind of stuff and she was embarrassed and ashamed of it. I stayed the night at her house a few times and one time her mom came home from work with some friends and they got totally stupid drunk. The next morning we found her mom passed out on the couch with vomit on her face. No child should have to be subjected to that kind of stuff.

[fresh_water]

I have a hard time with parents including their children in their adult lives, as well as partying (like you described) while the children are at home and the parents are responsible. Huge problem. It seems very irresponsible to me, at the very least. I have family that does this and it bugs the hell out of me each and every time.

[tallulahma]

i think that what she is saying to them is irresponsible, what they are watching is inappropriate. I think the frequency of the partying & the lack of good judgment in other areas sends up flags that these girls are being exposed to too much.

but that said, i am not opposed to have bbqs/parties that are an adult/child mix.

I remember my parents having beautiful fancy all night parties when i was young... i used to have so much fun. People were drunk, but there was always a sober person in charge of the children.

my dh doesnt drink, so if i have drinks he is in charge.

but keg stands? not so cool.

nak

[OhDang]

yeah i dont mind if people have a drink in front of kids but everyone getting wasted and doing kegstands while the kids are awake running around is NOT Okay.

Oh and i forgot, on school nights she lets them stay up as late as they want. I stayed with her for a bit, and the girls would always be soo so tired when they woke up for school that they would hardly be able to open their eyes. But she would say, if you stay up late youre gunna be tired so it's your own problem now go to school.

She is a loving mother, but she just loves them like they are 18 year olds not 6 & 7 year olds.

[Ziggysmama]

I don't see the big deal. Are they being harmed at these parties? Do the girls not like it? Really how often do these keg stands occur?
Its hard with sisters though, I totally understand.

[Jessy1019]

The only thing that would worry me would be if your sister was getting drunk while in charge of her kids. However, that's not what you described.

The TV shows, having silly little sayings that they do back and forth with one another . . . meh, she's not hurting them with any of that. Seeing adults partying also doesn't strike me as a huge thing.

I like that my children are exposed to all kinds of things, either through movies, tv, music, or just our daily lives. It gives me great opportunities to talk to them about different issues. I'm not interested in sheltering them at all.

[OhDang]

i guess i just think it's a little sad that they aren't really getting a childhood. they have never 'acted' like little girls, always much much more mature and knowing much much more than the average 6 or 7 year olds. If you heard them talk you would think they were 16 or 17 lol.
I don't know if i think it's bad or not, thats why i posted it because i wanted to see other people's opinions and views.


i know my sister never gets "wasted" in front of them but she will drink till she gets buzzed. if she wants to get pass out drunk she makes them go to their friends.

I will never say anything to her about her parenting, because it's not my place unless they are in danger. I just have never met another person who can't wait till she can get drunk with her daughters or can't wait till they start asking for peircings.

I guess the thing that bothers me most is it seems like she is trying to live through her daughters. growing up she was never the pretty one until she was much older, she was always shy and reserved. She wants her daughters to "be the hott ones in school" (her words) who get all the attention from everyone and be the most popular girls in school. She takes them to get their hair highlighted and takes them tanning (not in tanning booths just in the sun). If they feel pale they will say, ew i need to tan. and they are still so young! They get fake nails on allll the time too. idk..i guess my sister and i are just very different.

[velochic]

I don't think that drinking parties are a place for young children. I also agree that using expletives with children are not showing them any respect. They are not female dogs, therefore, the term "bitch: is not endearing. It's immature to treat and talk to your kids like they are your party friends. She needs to grow up and be a parent, not a teenager. When you have kids, you are responsible to your family first... not having drunken fun.

[mamazee]

My parents had huge keg parties when we were little, and at one of them my sister was sexually abused by one of the drunk men. Your sister can't adequately supervise her children during a party like that, especially when drunk, and I wouldn't be comfortable trusting a bunch of drunk party goers around my kids.

[OakBerry]

I don't think having drunken parties late at night every weekend is appropriate. I think a child's home should be their safe place, yk?

I remember being a wild teen and going to a party one night. The people had a 3 year old dd and she got up in the middle of the party and wouldn't go back to sleep. The mother was swearing and yelling at her to go back to bed.
People were doing lines and smoking joints around her.
It was about 1am and I spent two hours reading and hanging out with the little girl until she fell back asleep in her room. The thought of such a young child seeing and experiencing that made me feel sad and a little ill. I will never forget that!

Now, growing up, I went to many family parties with my parents where sometimes relatives got tipsy, but it wasn't out of control, and nobody was swearing, making out, doing lines or toking a fatty in front of us.

[queenjane]

I think your sister is incredibly immature. Unfortunately i see the title "Grandma" in her future in less than ten years.

having silly little sayings that they do back and forth with one another

calling your very young daughters "bitches" in "fun" and teaching them to say "I am the shit!" IMO doesnt really qualify as "silly little sayings". The sister needs to grow up.

Allowing kids to freely choose what to watch on tv is different than not allowing them "to ever watch cartoons or little kid shows or listen to kid music because she hates it". Allowing a child to choose their own bedtime is different than a parent letting them stay up because she is too lazy to parent them to sleep.

Getting "wasted" with kids in the house is NOT ok. If she is this immature/irresponsible while unwasted, i can only imagine how her judgment deteriorates while drunk (or high or whatever else she does.)

I dont even KNOW what a "kegstand" is....


Katherine

[CheapPearls]

Wow. That is so not cool on many levels. I am 22 myself so I understand being young with kids but this whole posts makes me very uncomfortable.

She needs to grow up. Can you talk to her about her behavior, especially about the partying around the kids? Someone else already pointed out that there's no way she can 100% protect her children with drunk people around. She really needs to open her eyes to the dangers she's exposing her girls to.

[OhDang]

i am going to visit them today, and if they say anything about any parties i will talk to her. i hope she doesnt get all defensive on me, but i love these kids and want them to have a great childhood.

[AngieB]

Originally Posted by mamazee

My parents had huge keg parties when we were little, and at one of them my sister was sexually abused by one of the drunk men. Your sister can't adequately supervise her children during a party like that, especially when drunk, and I wouldn't be comfortable trusting a bunch of drunk party goers around my kids.

This is what worries me!

The rest is just sad for the girls that they are missing out on a childhood.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by queenjane

I dont even KNOW what a "kegstand" is....


Katherine

I didn't either.

[LionessMom]

in my state you can get your kids taken away by CPS for any of that stuff she is doing.

[Sierra]

Yes, this is definitely concerning. As a foster parent I have been involved in helping kids reunite with parents who loved their children but were lousy parents. I have learned to accept that many parents are lousy parents, and we can't change that or rescue children without harming both parents and children in many cases. But your post brings up a very big concern that goes beyond lousy parenting. I will second this:

My parents had huge keg parties when we were little, and at one of them my sister was sexually abused by one of the drunk men. Your sister can't adequately supervise her children during a party like that, especially when drunk, and I wouldn't be comfortable trusting a bunch of drunk party goers around my kids.

Even though you have clarified and said that your sister gets buzzed at this parties but sends them elsewhere if she is going to get passed-out drunk, her ability to supervise, assess risk, manage, and support her children is going to be impaired even with just a buzz.

A lot of people don't realize how judgement can be impaired without being full-on drunk, but research (for example, on how much people have to drink before their reaction time slows while driving) has consistently showed that even a buzz generally impairs judgement.

Is the rest of your family aware of what is happening? If you are not the only one concerned (and hopefully you are not), I think the best first step after you speak directly with your sister and see where that goes, may be to make a unified extended-family plan about how to respond to your sister and support her in learning some of the parenting skills she seems to lack. This actually may involve your family members (parents and/or grandparents, other siblings, cousins or anyone else who has a relationship with her, etc.) doing some honest self-evaluation. Who is enabling her in what ways? Are there any scapegoats, etc.?

Even though you don't describe your sister as an alcoholic, organizations such as al-anon might be able to help your family devise a plan because even if alcohol ABUSE isn't involved, it does sound like alcohol USE plays a big part in the most dangerous scenario you described and generally when family members are falling apart at their responsibilites, etc....there are similar patterns in terms of family roles (such as the "enabler" role I mentioned above).

I bet if you speak with her directly, you'll get a better feel for the best plan. Does it seem like, for example, asking her if she wants to take a parenting class with you would totally put her on the defensive, or do you think she would be open to doing it as something nice for the two of you to do together? I wouldn't be afraid to mention fears that her children might be abused at such a party. See how seriously she takes her actions, and then try to devise what the next steps ought to be.

If after you speak with her, and give her a couple weeks to soak it in (give her some time to recover before you give up...especially if she reacts defensively at first, which means she feels hurt), it seems like she is still unable to make changes without a bigger push, I'd say initiate the family plan. If family efforts at pushing her don't go anywhere within a couple of months, I would honestly at least consider calling the police late one night when she was hosting a drunken party and was buzzed, and the kids were still awake. I'd tell them my sister was having a party and had already become slightly drunk, and that the party was getting really wild, and that I was really afraid for the children's safety because supervision was inadequate. If you called the police, my best guess is that they'd likely go and check in on the party and ask about the children. This would (a) possibly break up the party, which would force your sister to turn her attention the children, and more importantly (b) become another "wake up call" for your sister. Depending on her reaction to that, you could consider a follow-up call to CPS later in the week (the police might make their own report to CPS, depending on what they encounter at the party).

As a nanny, are you a mandatory reporter in your state (assuming you are in the U.S.)? If you are, be aware of when your sister's situation crosses a line from really, really shitty parenting to abusive. That's when you are required to make a report, and really have no option of waiting.

[bellymama]

Originally Posted by LionessMom

in my state you can get your kids taken away by CPS for any of that stuff she is doing.

any of that stuff? really?
you get your kids taken away by CPS for watching the Simple Life?
i need the specifics of the type of parties she is having in order to know whether this is okay or not. we have bbq's and dinners where all the adults are drinking wine and beer...we have a good time, and sometimes some people get more than just a smidge buzzed. nobody drives. everyone at the parties is close friends or family, and their are lots of kids around. so if that's the kind of party it is, you are over reacting.
if it's a party full of strangers or people you hardly know, and the your sisters kids are the only kids there, then i can see it being a bit of an issue.

to the pp who was molested. i am sorry that happened to you. but pedophiles are pedophiles are pedophiles. drunk people does not = pedophiles. someone is not going to molest a child purely because they are drunk, they obviously will already have those tendencies. alcohol does not a pedophile make. that is ridiculous to say.

[Sierra]

to the pp who was molested. i am sorry that happened to you. but pedophiles are pedophiles are pedophiles. drunk people does not = pedophiles. someone is not going to molest a child purely because they are drunk, they obviously will already have those tendencies. alcohol does not a pedophile make. that is ridiculous to say.

I can't speak for her, but I think that poster seemed pretty clear in her point, which the way I read it did NOT at all seem to be that a pedophile will abuse a child because s/he is drunk. What she actually said was that if the mom is drunk, she is not able to properly supervise her children and thus less able to protect her children in the event that someone does attempt to abuse her children.

THAT is a valid concern.

And yes, I think that a drunken party is a place where children can be vulnerable to abuse. Whether or not the family or friends are close (statistically, our children are most likely to be abused by close family and friends). Though alcohol does not cause pedophilia, lowered inhibitions and reduced judgement of all adults-- and sometimes a high level of sexual energy depending on the type of party, the personality of the adults, whether any adult is using other type of drugs, and the number of drunk folks-- can certainly place a child in the wrong place at the wrong time. Generally pedophiles are also aware of times when they are least likely to get caught, and will also take advantage of such situations.

Finally, it seems worth noting that the pp's sister's story is not isolated. I grew up at the tail end of an era when it wasn't uncommon for parents to be partying with kids in their care. Countless peers and kids just a bit older than us were prematurely exposed to sexual activity and many were abused. There are some parents who can get a little drunk and maintain proper supervision of their children, but I still think research is very clear that judgement and reaction time is poor even when a person is just buzzed, which doesn't make for the best supervisory environment.