Tired of negotiating with my 15 yr old HELP

[Prayingforsanity]

I need some ideas on how to deal with my 15 year old when I say "no" to something she wants to do.

I am a single mom with two teenage girls ages 13 and 15. I work at a tough job and have found it very hard to maintain control when I can't always be there.

My biggest problem is the hour long negotiations I get into with my 15 year old. When she wants to do something, like have a friend stay the night on a school night, and I say no...the negotion and pleading starts and I feel like I'm going crazy.

The worst part is I almost always end up either giving in or compromising and then I hate myself for it. Does anyone have tips on how to be strong when the teenager nags and pleads and won't stop after you say no???

She will follow me around the house begging and coming up with every excuse she can think of with why I should say yes. When I have made compromises in the past, she doesn't end up doing her part and then I get angry and it turns into an argument. For example, if I originally say no to something, she might promise to do something like clean her room if I say yes, but when I do, she gets what she wants and then doesn't clean her room.

This works both ways. When I want her to do something that she doesn't want to do, like go to church, she begs and pleads and tries to compromise (and of course she doesn't ever live up to her end of the compromise) and it drives me crazy.

I have dealt with her telling me she hates me, being extremely and embarrassingly rude in front of friends because she is angry with me, cussing at me, talking bad about me and worse. Sometimes the negotiation can last for days. I know my problem is that I am not consistent when I say no...but I need help on how to be! How do you deal with aftermath of a no? The rudeness, meanness, stress and hostility? Sometimes when I ask her or her 13 year old sister to do something, they just look at me and say no. All punishments turn into a nightmare for me...because they make me miserable by complaining, being mean or rude, or ignoring me. I can punish my daughter for a whole weekend because she refused to clean her room and she will just sit in there and still not clean it.

I would appreciate any ideas on how to handle this.

[kathymuggle]

I would start by picking my battles. For example - cleaning her room. I would definately let this go. As long as her room was not a fire hazard, or attracting bugs, let it be. A power struggle is so not worth it.

MY DS (12) does a lighter version of you DD. I used to explain myself over and over and over (in response to his cries of "why" or "why not???"), hoping he would finally see the light. It did not work. Now I explain myself once, twice maximum, and that is that. I say to him:

"We have already discussed this. We disagree, and that is fine. However, I get the final say and the answer is no".

I have been known to ignore him completely or leave rooms if he insists on barraging me. I feel mean doing so (and weird, because I really do value communication) - but I think my son had been using this "valueing communication" thing against me. In any event, ignoring him when he starts up seems to have worked somewhat.

I think what my son was doing and your DD is doing is verbal harassment. Defining that for myself helped me to find the strength to do what I needed to change the dynamic.

Finding things you can do and enjoy together is key. My DS likes people to watch movies with him. I occasionally treat him to an iced cap - with brownie sprinkles, which he really appreciates.

Lastly, remeber that it is their job to grow more independant and take control of their lives. Any way you can encourage or support her burgeoning adulthood may make the times you have to play the mommy card more bearable for her.

Good luck!

Kathy

[Ruth S]

Your daughter needs to learn that no means no. Right now she has learned that no just means she has to be obnoxious until you say yes.

Say no, explain why, and remove yourself from the situation - ie, refuse to engage with her, don't make eye contact, don't let her see you're upset. Read a book, do the dishes, take a bath.

It'll be tough and it's going to take a while, but I imagine she learned that whining eventually gets her what she wants a long time ago. Hang in there - it's worth it.

[thisiswhatwedo]

I am going through this also. It hurts because our teens don't have the proper boundries at times. It is strange for me to say "wow, my parents would have killed me if I did that" but my son is worse than I was! I am a single mom and I really wish I had the strong back up of a husband/dad/partner at these times. Lately I feel like it has gone far enough and we are getting some counseling and I am rethinking my parenting style, which went from attachment parenting talking it through and touchy feely to exhausted angry yelling banshee. I am hoping for something in between. If you can get your girls to sit down and talk through this with you, the wearing you down until you give in, and how this upsets you I think it may start to change things. In the past I use to say to my son, " Do you really think you are ready to be in charge of... if you are just show me and we can make some decisions about ..." We've regressed. It is true that if she understands there will not be a yes at the end of 2 hours of no's she will not pursue it that long.
I'd say a meeting where you come prepared with a pen and paper and have them help you chart out house rules and reasonable expectations so they are part of the rule making they will feel more involved and more respectful, and also have clear expectations.
I know this is difficult and I don't have any answers right now but I am there with you. I do tell my son when he has been going at it for too long that he is upsetting me and I need it to stop for my mental health. That gives us a break and we try to come back around to it (hopefully calmer). I do admit I have been saying "because I am the mom" stuff.

[MizLiz]

My ds (12) has often done this... I find it best to disengage once the bugging starts, after I don't give him the answer he wants to something. Like a pp said, it does feel kind of weird to disengage (either by leaving the room, or just saying that we've already discussed this so the conversation is over), because I value communication and don't want to discourage our interactions. But I found that when he'd bug me for something that that type of interaction was less than worthwhile, to say the least!

I also sometimes use a line like, "I know you don't agree with me on this, but I've made my decision."

And we do get along so much better now that the negative banter has stopped between us.

Good luck!

[Ruthla]

With my kids, if they're polite about something I might reconsider it. If they start getting abusive or "temper tantrum-y" then it's an automatic no.

You want a friend to sleep over on a school night? no. Beg and plead and follow me around the house? Definitely no, and now you've lost the chance to have your friend over this weekend.

I wouldn't make a big deal over the room cleaning- except for some basic stuff like "if I can't safely walk to your hamper, you'll have to wash your own clothes." It obviously doesn't bother HER if she can sit there all weekend staring at it and not clean it up!

Don't engage in power struggles with children. 9 times out of 10, the child will win. If you feel that her room is so messy as to be unsafe or unhealthy, then approach her with "hey, XYZ in your room is unhealthy, let's work together to find a way to clean it and keep it clean." If it's just cluttered, then let it go.
I similarly wouldn't beg and plead to get them to go to church. She's old enough to be left home without a babysitter. "I'm going now. Do you want to come with me or stay home?" If she chooses to stay home, she stays home, and you still get to go.

[redveg]

I agree with the picking your battles. Certain things I would just let go, like the room if I don't like how their room looks, I just close the door. They usually get so tired of stepping over things they clean it themselves. I have been know to ask them to clean it, and if they don't that's fine but when they ask me for something I say when your room is clean we'll talk about. If my children, who are 14, 2 dd's 1ds, ever swore at me, called me names, were mean to me in front of friends or not, my punishment would be hard. Because I don't speak to them that way, I expect the same respect in return. They would lose all that is near and dear to them for a while. Cell phone, computer, video games, you name it I would take it. I have never had to do this, but they know I would. It is much harder for you I think being a single parent, because it's them against you I think I would give in too. I think if you decide something, stand firm even though they will try to get you to cave in. When they see it's not going to work they will give up.

[2goingon2]

Yes to the advice you've received...pick your battles and also don't let your child win a power struggle. I have a 15 year old daughter and right now - she's an angel. It's my 9 year old son that acts like a teenager. In fact, we are in family counseling (just started) and one of the things the therapist stressed was you can not let a child be boss. You are the parent. Sounds like the first few times you let your daughter know you will not put up with her behaviour she will try to punish you. Well, my mother always said 'she can get glad in the same clothes she got mad in' - know what I mean? She'll get over it. Stand your ground and I agree - back talking and name calling would call for some serious punishment at my house. That is never acceptable. I treat my kids with respect and I deserve the same from them. Also at my house - no means no. My son is the one who tries to bargain and negotiate. You asked how to handle the aftermath...when you do say no; well, stick to your guns for one and stop asking them to do things for you. Tell them. If there are things that are expected of them on a regular basis, you shouldn't have to ask. Tell them it's time for them to 'xyz'. You could give them the old 15 minute warning such as "In 15 minutes I need you to fill-in-the-blank". I'll give you an example we use for my son. He loves to play the play station in the evening. I let him know when he has 15 minutes left and then tell him what I want him to do after he shuts the game off. That might be to take a shower, pick up his room, read, or go to bed. I should not have to tell him again. There is a clock for him to refer to and he knows how to tell time. At the end of the 15 minutes, if he is still on the game, I go up, tell him time is up and turn it off right then and he loses his game. I also tell him that he has lost his warning/wind down time for the next week because obviously, he's not ready for that responsibility. So, if he plays again in the next few days, when it's time to shut the game off, I go upstairs and tell him to shut it off RIGHT THEN. No if's and's or but's. Either he shuts it down (he can save it) or I reach over and shut it off and he loses his game. So far - this has worked. Not sure how to apply it to a 15 year old as like I said, my 15 year old is the easy one. Best of luck to you and stand your ground. You are the mother and you deserve respect.

[Prayingforsanity]

Thank you for all of the advice. I will try some of the things you all have written and see how it goes. It makes me feel better to read that other parents are going through the same things and I don't have "monster" children...just normal teenagers that need loving boundaries and control.

[mommy68]

Originally Posted by Prayingforsanity

I have dealt with her telling me she hates me, being extremely and embarrassingly rude in front of friends because she is angry with me, cussing at me, talking bad about me and worse.

This is reason enough to tell her WHY she can't do what she wants to do. If she has treated you this way one time it's more than enough times to use that as the excuse as to why she can not do what she wants.

My kids sometimes ask me over and over when I have already said no and they have learned real quick if they keep it up that they will have an extra chore to do or I will take away some other privilege. I won't put up with it. Kids need boundaries and rules.

[spruce]

As always, Ruthla has words of wisdom, and spoken far more eloquently than I could have managed.

I do negotiate with my 15 yo. It's a part of growing into responsibility that we look out for our own interests and needs.

HOWEVER, when I overheard my 15yo disparaging her family (and then repeating disparaging remarks *about* her family which were made by the girlfriend to whom she was speaking), we told that child, in no uncertain terms, that conversations with this friend would be monitored.

Being rude, lying, or otherwise disparaging your mother, father, etc., is not allowed in our family. You can be at odds with your mom, you can really, really find your little brother annoying, you can *loathe* the smell of your baby sister's dirty diapers...but you don't speak ill of your family.

love, penelope

[mamade6]

Maybe this will help

Dear Praying for Sanity-

I am mom to an 18,17, 1yr & baby due in 2 weeks (4)girls. I also have sons 14 & 9.
I'm going to first say that I am going to be pretty to the point. Girls are easy till they turn about 12 & then ALL HELL breaks loose if you haven't set boundaries. All children don't just need boundaries & routines they thrive off them if applied correctly. I would sit your daughter down & let her know that you are exhausted and can no longer go on the way things are. Here is what I would do.

1.) Write down house rules & have EVERYONE sign them (yes even U)
2.) Write down a list of house chores & who is responsible for what
3.) Post them in a place visible by family members
4.) Write down consequences for EVERYONE if rules are violated (for example: in our house EVERYONE has a laundry day. There are no reminders, however if you forget or make choices to do other things on your laundry day & forget you cannot wash until the next week.) & I promise you for girls this SUCKS! IT WILL ONLY HAPPEN ONCE!:
5.) One of the house rules should be that no one stays the night during the week. & you being the mom need to adhere to it
6.) Also include in those rules that everyone is to be treated with RESPECT & let it be known that if you are ever disrespected or mistreated again in front of her friends that at that very moment you ask her friend to pack her bags & YOU TAKE HER HOME. If it keeps going on You change the rules to include no overnight guests. Remember mom you ARE THE BOSS. You have to demand respect or you will never get it. But you also need to respect in return, no matter how pissed you might become. NEVER LET THEM SEE YOU SWEAT A THING!!!! You have to be the leader & that means lead by example
You might think that I am a little overboard but I have a lot of kids & have to run a tight ship. Here is a website that has been a true blessing to my family. www.flylady.net If you adhere to it it will change your life in every aspect. Try it. I'd love to hear your results & feedback. Good luck & just remember it will be hard at first they will hate you, but it gets better. Just stand your ground & demand respect! Also remember to take time & enjoy your family. Good Luck & I'm anxious to hear your results.

[spruce]

Originally Posted by mamade6

Dear Praying for Sanity-

I am mom to an 18,17, 1yr & baby due in 2 weeks (4)girls. I also have sons 14 & 9.
I'm going to first say that I am going to be pretty to the point. Girls are easy till they turn about 12 & then ALL HELL breaks loose if you haven't set boundaries. All children don't just need boundaries & routines they thrive off them if applied correctly. I would sit your daughter down & let her know that you are exhausted and can no longer go on the way things are. Here is what I would do.

1.) Write down house rules & have EVERYONE sign them (yes even U)
2.) Write down a list of house chores & who is responsible for what
3.) Post them in a place visible by family members
4.) Write down consequences for EVERYONE if rules are violated (for example: in our house EVERYONE has a laundry day. There are no reminders, however if you forget or make choices to do other things on your laundry day & forget you cannot wash until the next week.) & I promise you for girls this SUCKS! IT WILL ONLY HAPPEN ONCE!:
5.) One of the house rules should be that no one stays the night during the week. & you being the mom need to adhere to it
6.) Also include in those rules that everyone is to be treated with RESPECT & let it be known that if you are ever disrespected or mistreated again in front of her friends that at that very moment you ask her friend to pack her bags & YOU TAKE HER HOME. If it keeps going on You change the rules to include no overnight guests. Remember mom you ARE THE BOSS. You have to demand respect or you will never get it. But you also need to respect in return, no matter how pissed you might become. NEVER LET THEM SEE YOU SWEAT A THING!!!! You have to be the leader & that means lead by example
You might think that I am a little overboard but I have a lot of kids & have to run a tight ship. Here is a website that has been a true blessing to my family. www.flylady.net If you adhere to it it will change your life in every aspect. Try it. I'd love to hear your results & feedback. Good luck & just remember it will be hard at first they will hate you, but it gets better. Just stand your ground & demand respect! Also remember to take time & enjoy your family. Good Luck & I'm anxious to hear your results.

I'm on board with the respect and responsibilities, but I have to ask...what's up with no sleep-overs during the week?

We LOVE having Dd's friends sleep over. I get to know them, she gets to hang out, and they are (at 15) responsible enough to go to bed at a decent hour and get up to make the bus.

We did a family contract, as well. But a family contract is just a start...it's implementing it that's tough.

I agree that if there are issues with household guests, or behaviours on your Dd's part while she has guests, then you take those guests home. It's just *very* tough on the part of the kid being packed up and sent home.

And brava to you for making it through FlyLady. I went stark raving insane when I tried it.

love, penelope

[MCR]

I agree with the say no and disengage thing, thats what I do too.
I gave up on the clean room thing, and it is getting better.
When you start to say no and change your tactics and disengage, also remember that she will up her game too, the pleading and temper will probably become worse at first, for a while and she may be more embarrassing than ever. But if you ride it through and stick to your guns she should come around.
Also don't forget to say yes occasionally. Like the school friend sleep over, maybe say no then come back and suggest it for a different, non school night.

[Mama Dragon]

When the discussion is over and DD continues to nag, I tell her one more word and she's grounded for a week from the computer. Before it comes to this point, I have explained why not and given her a couple warnings, so it's not out of the blue that I'm being a brute. Just use your child's "thing" - Ipod, hanging out with friends, whatever.

[PikkuMyy]

I deal with similar negotiation from my elementary school students or babysitting charges and I follow the "do not negotiate" tactic as well. I answer them, I might repeat it, I'll give an explanation, but after that I either am silent on the issue or I just repeat a very short phrase in response to anything they say, "You may play with your videogame after the dinnertable is cleared.", trying to include "when what they want will happen" if possible.

[mamade6]

reply to your inquiry

Originally Posted by spruce

I'm on board with the respect and responsibilities, but I have to ask...what's up with no sleep-overs during the week?

We LOVE having Dd's friends sleep over. I get to know them, she gets to hang out, and they are (at 15) responsible enough to go to bed at a decent hour and get up to make the bus.

We did a family contract, as well. But a family contract is just a start...it's implementing it that's tough.

I agree that if there are issues with household guests, or behaviours on your Dd's part while she has guests, then you take those guests home. It's just *very* tough on the part of the kid being packed up and sent home.

And brava to you for making it through FlyLady. I went stark raving insane when I tried it.

love, penelope

Penelope-

I understand that everyone has different opinions, but for my family weeknights are HECTIC taking one child from one activity to the next & making it home for dinner, any left over homeowrk, baths & bedtime. It has never been a good idea to bring others into a routine when they are not used to it in our home. Also, I have never known girls to actually quit talking & go to bed at a decent hour any night much more a school night. I was just trying to make it easier on the mom, she states that she is single & needs solutions. You and I can give our opinions knowing that we have a partner to pitch in & help, she does not have that. We most likley have no idea how hard it is for her let alone with one teenage dd but 2 & alone. It's gotta be rough. Hopefully that explains the reason why I stated things the way I did. You know what would be nice if that maybe prayingforsanity look into the big sister program & pairing her dd a great woman whom could be her role model & give mom some well deserved respite time. Here is their site. It's worth a try. /www.bbbs.org Good luck sweetie!

[E.V. Lowi]

Ultimate teenage survival tool

http://www.gordontraining.com/parent...ning-book.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parent_...eness_Training

http://www.naturalchild.com/guest/thomas_gordon.html

[PajamaMama]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

With my kids, if they're polite about something I might reconsider it. If they start getting abusive or "temper tantrum-y" then it's an automatic no.

You want a friend to sleep over on a school night? no. Beg and plead and follow me around the house? Definitely no, and now you've lost the chance to have your friend over this weekend.

:

My teen daughter is nowhere near as obnoxious in the begging as the original poster's, but I have been saying to her for a long time 'I have needs too, and right now I need you to respect that I've said no and that's it.' You don't have to explain every feeling and want that you have to your teen...I mean, really, do you expect that of her? She is old enough to understand that you can't always get what you want, including your own way. I would definitely do the disengage thing that some other posters have mentioned in your situation.

[alllyssa]

Thank you for all of the advice. I will try some of the things you all have written and see how it goes. It makes me feel better to read that other parents are going through the same things and I don't have "monster" children...just normal teenagers that need loving boundaries and control.

Oh, I think that your girls have become monsters, but although it's not easy, it is fixable.