Please help me find info for my friend (non-vaxing)

[MrsMike]

Hi. My friend has two kiddies who aren't vaccinated. He an his wife have been anti-vaccine for the past 4-5 years. Recently, he has been questioning his choice NOT to vaccinate and wonders if he is doing the right thing. He is on a search for good solid information on the issue. He has read a lot from the pro-vaccine side that is making him question his beliefs. I'm pasting a copy of an email that he sent out, with his permission, stating what his questions are. If anyone can help with links/resources/etc. it would be greatly appreciated.

From his email:
"But lately I've been having second thoughts on the whole matter. I subscribe to several science-related blogs. None of them are specifically medically focused but they do touch on medical issues here and there. And lately the topic of vaccines has come up a lot. And almost universally these science types are totally confident in their stance that vaccines are exactly what the medical community says they are: namely that they help prevent disease and that the connection between vaccines and autism is at best outdated but really has been proven to not exist. The writers and commenters on these blogs do a really good job of batting down anti-vax responses and pointing out their apparent holes and flaws in logic. I actually got my rear end handed to me by a bunch of these people complete with sources, info and data that I realized I didn't have an answer for: http://blogs. discovermagazine .com/badastronom y/2008/05/ 12/vaccines- do-not-cause- autism/#comment- 87997

So now I'm wondering how much of the anti-vax theory is flawed. I thought I had researched this thing pretty thoroughly but apparently a lot of the ammunition in the anti-vax camp is full of redirect, rhetoric and "straw men" if the science bloggers are to be believed... and as I said, I couldn't come up with a valid argument against them.

So I guess I'm looking for input from you on both sides. What research have you looked into on both sides that prompted you to make the decision you made. This issue is going to become even more of a fight for us now because we just moved to New Jersey whose religious exemption does NOT include the "strong moral objection" clause that Pennsylvania has. So I know we're going to have to watch our step a bit more when it comes to enrolling the kids in school.

Basically I'm feeling a big paradigm challenge coming on and I just don't know what to do with it. I don't know who or what to believe anymore. I don't know if the medical people have an agenda that they are defending despite the Truth, or if it's the anti-vax camp who is covering their ears and going "la-la-la-la" to all the apparent evidence out there.

So can anybody point me to some decent research from either side because I feel like I'm starting from square one again on this whole debate."

[Fyrestorm]

Send him to www.insidevaccines.com

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

Send him to www.insidevaccines.com

:

[Free Thinker]

As someone who also reads a lot of science and truely believes IN science, I also have a hard time. IMO NEITHER side has all of the answers. Clearly I do see that some vaccines have helped us and lowered disease rates for certain virus and bacteria, but in the same thought, I see that thru evolution some strains are gaining strength. We cannot vaccinate for every bacteria or virus, it just isnt' possible. What we do when we illiminate one contaminate, we make a breading ground for the next, so we may not be reducing illness, only illness of a specific variety (ex: HiB). I also wonder b/c there really have not been any clear studies done that prove that the vaxes ARE safe, or as safe as they are claimed to be. The studies are just plain NOT THERE, so how can one make an informed decision? It's hard, we do selectively vax our kids, but the boys are 7 months old nad have'nt had a shot yet. I figure it's a darned if you do, darned if you don't type thing. There is a chance if I get a vax that my child may have a reaction up toa nd inluding death (or anything in between), adn there is also a chance if I don't vax that my child may get a disease and have to be either hospitalized or die. Hard decision and not one to make lightly. I still second-guess myself all the time and still read up as much as I can. I think your friend needs to look in depth at those studies and see if they are truely safe.

[Deborah]

I "third" insidevaccines which has a new look, by the way.

Those pro-vax blogs are very loud, but if you look hard at what they are saying there isn't a lot of real science and they aren't dealing with the real questions being raised. It is distract and distort IMO.

[Emmeline II]

I don't see it as a "side" but as a choice. I choose not to inject my children with prophylactic drugs, because I have determined that the risk of injury is greater from the vaccines that are put into their bodies, than VADs they may get.
________________________________________
1. Name of the disease
2. Description of the disease
3. Length of time from initial infection to end of all symptoms
4. Infectious period
5. Normal symptoms of the disease
6. Known serious consequences of the disease
7. Proportion of persons infected developing serious consequences
8. Transmission route of the disease
9. Prevalence of the disease
10. Treatments of the disease and efficacy of those treatments
11. Relevant research about the disease
12. Name of the vaccine
13. Company that makes the vaccine
14. Contents of the vaccine
14A. The significance of whether or not the vaccine is live
15. History of development of the vaccine
16. Known side-effects of the vaccine and rate of incidence of those side-effects
17. Possible side-effects not yet acknowledged by the vaccine maker
18. Relevant research into the vaccine
19. How effective is the vaccine at preventing the disease?
20.What is the vaccine meant to do? (Many vaccines are not meant to prevent infection or transmission).
21.Number of cases reported each year.
22.Number of deaths reported each year from the vaccine and natural disease.

Here are some sources to help you out:

Inside Vaccines

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_wk.html (download the current issue)
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...k-chapters.htm
http://vaers.hhs.gov/pdf/PackageInserts.pdf
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...40451107552&q=
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...87981735&hl=en
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...ses&deaths.pdf

[MountainMamaGC]

I watched a doc today and it just solidifies my decision.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...uCQ&q=vaccines

[Sileree]

Originally Posted by Deborah

I "third" insidevaccines which has a new look, by the way.

Those pro-vax blogs are very loud, but if you look hard at what they are saying there isn't a lot of real science and they aren't dealing with the real questions being raised. It is distract and distort IMO.

Right. And more often than not its just insulting and anger that comes out of them, not science.

[HeYunyi]

I'd recommend Evidence of Harm by David Kirby. It really gets into how shoddy the research is that was used to try and prove thimerosal safe. It specifically mentions the Denmark study that was mentioned in the blog you linked to, apparently researchers added in the autism cases from the clinic that diagnosed 20% of Denmark's autism cases the year that thimerosal was removed from vaccines, previous years didn't have these numbers included, therefore causing the numbers to suddenly jump up.

[columbusmomma]

Originally Posted by HeYunyi

I'd recommend Evidence of Harm by David Kirby. It really gets into how shoddy the research is that was used to try and prove thimerosal safe. It specifically mentions the Denmark study that was mentioned in the blog you linked to, apparently researchers added in the autism cases from the clinic that diagnosed 20% of Denmark's autism cases the year that thimerosal was removed from vaccines, previous years didn't have these numbers included, therefore causing the numbers to suddenly jump up.

This book is fantastic!!

[Lit Chick]

Nothing new to add, but there is more risk than just austism. Fine - let's say that austism is not at all related to vaxing.
What about allergy? Gut issues? The likelyhood that acute childhood illness is being exchanged for chronic adult illness?
Also - many vaxes given in infancy to avoid complications that would only occur as an adult (hi, rubella, I'm looking at you) do not last into adulthood. Why are so many kids being vaxed then, when they are not the risk group? Profit.

The biggest reason I am anti vax is the lack of transparency, studies, and accountability in big pharm. The motivation is not the greater good, but money.