So what are we doing wrong?

[PiesandAbrosmama]

I came on here today after I read about the KY woman's ordeal at MCDonalds. Seriously ladies I just want to cry! Why are we not making progress? My local news just aired a story this week about why KY ramks so low in breastfeeding the worst in the country, and we have billboards up thanks to WIC that rock, so many news blips about business getting us upset and having to deal with nurse in's because of employees asking women to leave or cover up, or nurse in changing rooms. So what is being lost in translation? Why are we so obtuse in this culture to promote the fact that breastmilk is best and then treat us as second right citizen's. I just feel so disgusted with my culture and world that discriminates against us. What are we not doing? Why are we STILL educating the public about a very publicized and legal right's of nursing mama's. I dunno just a rant of sadness in my heart, seems like it's gotten worse in the 7 years I have been a nursing mother. :

[aaronsmom]

We're fighting against multi billion dollar conglomerate formula companies. In this country money=power.

[jillc512]

I think we have two big problems:
1. the formula industry and its marketing machine on tv and in parenting magazines, and who still have access to HOSPITALS and DOCTORS (oh, and influence over government promotion of breastfeeding )
2. a culture that doesn't want to make anyone feel guilty.

re: guilt, other public health issues don't seem to have this problem. It's ok to make smokers feel guilty, or people who don't buckle up or use carseats, or people who drive drunk, or people who don't vaccinate (perhaps you're aware that Amanda Peet called us "parasites" ). To really make a big change in public opinion (and, subsequently, breastfeeding initiation and duration rates), we need to spread the truth about the risks of formula far and wide, whether it makes anyone feel guilty or not.

[aaronsmom]

re: guilt, other public health issues don't seem to have this problem. It's ok to make smokers feel guilty, or people who don't buckle up or use carseats, or people who drive drunk, or people who don't vaccinate (perhaps you're aware that Amanda Peet called us "parasites" ). To really make a big change in public opinion (and, subsequently, breastfeeding initiation and duration rates), we need to spread the truth about the risks of formula far and wide, whether it makes anyone feel guilty or not

.

[Rhiannon Feimorgan]

I don't know. I think the power hungry money machine is certainly a factor but I think that in some ways this is the "getting worse before it gets better" phase.

There are some people who are just so far removed from the world of new moms that breastfeeding and the facts around it are just not on their radar. If one of those people is working in a public place and happens to encounter a mother breastfeeding they are likely to not know what to do and not know all the facts that we take for granted. Then things like this occur. At the same time, the nursing mothers themselves are more informed. They know their rights and while 20 years ago a woman harrased for nursing in a store might go home and cry or tell a few friends, now she gets on the internet and contacts the media. So we hear about the incidents more often than we used to.

I'm hopeful that we really are making progress. Of course I have to be or I'd go crazy!

[aaronsmom]

Originally Posted by Rhiannon Feimorgan

I don't know. I think the power hungry money machine is certainly a factor but I think that in some ways this is the "getting worse before it gets better" phase.

There are some people who are just so far removed from the world of new moms that breastfeeding and the facts around it are just not on their radar. If one of those people is working in a public place and happens to encounter a mother breastfeeding they are likely to not know what to do and not know all the facts that we take for granted. Then things like this occur. At the same time, the nursing mothers themselves are more informed. They know their rights and while 20 years ago a woman harrased for nursing in a store might go home and cry or tell a few friends, now she gets on the internet and contacts the media. So we hear about the incidents more often than we used to.

I'm hopeful that we really are making progress. Of course I have to be or I'd go crazy!

I never thought about it this way. Sort of like we took a little detour for half a century but as humanity in general becomes more knowledgeable we'll get back to our "roots", so to speak. I like this outlook.

[mjg013]

If I didn't post on message boards I wouldn't even be that aware of breastfeeding discrimination to the extent I've seen online. I have breastfed 6 children including my twins for a total of more than 6 years. I've never had a single bad experience NIP. The hospital where I had my 2nd child and the first I breastfed, I had cracked and bleeding nipples and wanted to give up. My nurse wouldn't hear of it and she gave me the support and tools I needed to continue. I was completely supported in pumping when I returned to work. I have nursed at restaurants, the zoo, the park, walking through the grocery store and never gotten a single rude comment or even dirty look. I live in Atlanta and the South isn't exactly known as being super progressive. I thought that it was the norm. My sister had a baby a couple years ago and I realized that we haven't come as far as I liked to believe when her midwife told her to pump all the milk from her breasts after every nursing session or the milk would stagnate. ? But recently I met a group of women from a message board at a local restaurant for dinner. There were 4 or 5 currently nursing moms in this group of about 15. They were all nursing their babies at dinner and we had several servers taking care of us and no one batted an eye. I don't think all is lost. There are definite signs of progress and acceptance and even encouragement in many places. So, take heart, we have to keep pushing on and change will come.

[PiesandAbrosmama]

I agree about getting back to our roots, i guess that's what i mean when i said what are we doing wrong, because I feel like we should be getting farther along with this. I do really think the message is getting out there that breast is best, that is should be done and women are getting braver and more public about being harrassed and the news is covering this big issue, but it keeps happening! I mean even ABC covering cross nursing, the information is getting out to the mass public. So that's what i mean what is getting lost in translation here? Sure the big push of bussiness is a factor, but I guess I am thinking who are these working people individuals of the public still giving a mother a hard time, and further more why are my rights as a paying customer not as important as the uncomfortable customers? Ladies I pray when my daughters have babes and nurse they will be applauded or better yet not even noticed because it's just the normal, but lately I have been discouraged because my own mother was wishing these same dreams for me and yet here we are going around and around this crazy moutain

[Rhiannon Feimorgan]

I think though, for a segment of the population that don't have kids, aren't planning on having kids or had there kids a long time ago when things were different, when the breastfeeding stuff comes on tv or radio or billboards or whatever they think "Oh that's about breastfeeding, that doesn't apply to me" and they just don't pay attention.

[treehuggermama]

Originally Posted by aaronsmom

We're fighting against multi billion dollar conglomerate formula companies. In this country money=power.

This makes me think about the formula bags given to new moms at the hospitals/clinics...How many women who were on the fence about bf been swayed by these bags?

I too agree with pp that it seems to be getting worse rather than better. I have NIP'd for almost 5 years and never had issues until the last couple of years.

[Swan3]

Originally Posted by PiesandAbrosmama

What are we not doing? Why are we STILL educating the public about a very publicized and legal right's of nursing mama's. I dunno just a rant of sadness in my heart, seems like it's gotten worse in the 7 years I have been a nursing mother. :

We're all doing everything we can, it WILL get better, the more nurse-ins, the more women just "pop it out" on the bus or anywhere else. This is just one more struggle women will look back on through a rear-view mirror as the past!

[Artemnesia]

The problem? The fact that most people (even many of the supposedly pro-breastfeeding ones) pussyfoot around the issue in order to conform to a twisted and watered-down standard of what is politically and socially correct, or "polite." The facts are sacrificed and the full force of the truth doesn't come across. It seems some people can hardly say something positive about breastfeeding without following up with a reflexive "Oh but some mothers formula feed, and that's just fine too..."

But is artificial milk really "fine?" Not really. It's a poor substitute for the real thing since it's deficient and does not perform many of the major functions that breastmilk is designed to accomplish. Using it risks illness and death. Breastmilk isn't special or "best" as if there's a reasonable choice to be made, as if one were choosing between two different plans for decorating the nursery. Nursing is normal for the species. Feeding an artificial substitute is not.

Until more people GET all that, really really know it, and stop trying to hide it all or apologize for it, then nothing else is going fall into place. Yes it's going to hurt some people's feelings to hear that but failing to pass on those facts comes at an even HIGHER price to society and ultimately other women. If attitudes and beliefs don't change, then things are going to stay the same. Medical professionals won't be held accoutable for the widespread ignorance about breastfeeding, and formula will remain its standard "solution" for breastfeeding problems. There won't be enough milk banks. NIP will be seen as an unnecessary display of what society considers the private playtoy of adult men.

In short, the movement needs to start focusing more on the serious dangers of feeding a substitute for breastmilk, and stop worrying so much about upholding the comfortable illusion that formula isn't all that bad. Nope it's not rat poison. But it sure isn't real human milk.

[aaronsmom]

Originally Posted by Artemnesia

The problem? The fact that most people (even many of the supposedly pro-breastfeeding ones) pussyfoot around the issue in order to conform to a twisted and watered-down standard of what is politically and socially correct, or "polite." The facts are sacrificed and the full force of the truth doesn't come across. It seems some people can hardly say something positive about breastfeeding without following up with a reflexive "Oh but some mothers formula feed, and that's just fine too..."

But is artificial milk really "fine?" Not really. It's a poor substitute for the real thing since it's deficient and does not perform many of the major functions that breastmilk is designed to accomplish. Using it risks illness and death. Breastmilk isn't special or "best" as if there's a reasonable choice to be made, as if one were choosing between two different plans for decorating the nursery. Nursing is normal for the species. Feeding an artificial substitute is not.

Until more people GET all that, really really know it, and stop trying to hide it all or apologize for it, then nothing else is going fall into place. Yes it's going to hurt some people's feelings to hear that but failing to pass on those facts comes at an even HIGHER price to society and ultimately other women. If attitudes and beliefs don't change, then things are going to stay the same. Medical professionals won't be held accoutable for the widespread ignorance about breastfeeding, and formula will remain its standard "solution" for breastfeeding problems. There won't be enough milk banks. NIP will be seen as an unnecessary display of what society considers the private playtoy of adult men.

In short, the movement needs to start focusing more on the serious dangers of feeding a substitute for breastmilk, and stop worrying so much about upholding the comfortable illusion that formula isn't all that bad. Nope it's not rat poison. But it sure isn't real human milk.

Beautifully said!