Anyone care to discuss herd immunity?

[AMum]

So, I got the "well you have the luxery of not vaxing b/c everyone else does" guilt trip the other day. So, talk to me about this, share your responses when people bring this up.

Thanks,

Ashlea

[Ophelia]

One of the main things is that some vaccines don't prevent transmission, so 'herd immunity' is moot for those. People who don't research this stuff think that ALL vaccines contribute to herd immunity. Ones I can think of that don't:

DTaP (not sure about diptheria part but think that is same)
Polio
?

I like this for explaining herd immunity:

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/?p=149

[alegna]

First- as mentioned, not all vaxs can create herd immunity.

Second- The ones that do, I really wish they didn't. MMR seems to work quite well. This has skewed what used to be childhood diseases into adulthood and created all sorts of problems.

Personally, I think our society would be healthier overall without mass vaccination.

-Angela

[wunderbubble]

none of my decisions were based on the theory of herd immunity

anyone who does do research on vaccines ....does not base thier decision on herd immunity

doctors like to tell thier patients that the 'bad or non vax' mothers don't vax because of herd immunity because it's an easy way to end the conversation without giving any real info and make non vaxers look bad, but it is not the truth...if the doctors truely believe that that is the reason people aren't vaxing then they are too stupid to have a medical license as far as i'm concerned.

[Scattershoot]

Originally Posted by AMum

So, I got the "well you have the luxery of not vaxing b/c everyone else does" guilt trip the other day. So, talk to me about this, share your responses when people bring this up.

Thanks,

Ashlea

I think it is important to note that this herd immunity/you are sucking off the good parents approach to getting people to vaccinate is the most recent attempt by a movement that is dying to stay afloat. Since so many people trusted the "experts" and their children ended up severely damaged, the movement is in trouble. People don't just jump when they say "jump" any more. Now the tactic is guilt. When people resort to guilt, I see that as pretty pathetic.

If someone mentioned herd immunity to me I'd tell them this:

1. A number of vaccines don't prevent transmission. I like what a previous poster said, and I'd ask them if they knew which ones. This is just to show them that they really don't know anything, and they shouldn't be challenging my decisions for my own children.

2. This is most important for me. The childhood diseases such as chicken pox, measles, mumps and rubella are NORMAL. They are developmental stages for the immune system. This is where I'd bring up chicken pox. Most people still recall how harmless it was when they had it. Of course a generation or two from now it will somehow be remembered as a horrific disease that laid waste to children.

3. A number of the other vaccines are just silly. It's just stuff they came up with and then put out a p.r. campaign to get parents to be afraid. Of course someone might say, "so you think polio is silly?" No actually I don't, but I do know several people who had polio, which they called something else, who had all received their polio shots.

[applejuice]

The herd theory is actually a very old theory. Someone tried to lay that guilt trip on me over thirty years ago. Obviously I did not buy it.

I am surprised that this canard is still being floated around by the pro-vax community. Can't they come up with something new?

For the record, my youngest unvaxed child did get measles, so much for the herd theory. He probably got it from a recently vaxed child who was shedding. I, unvaxed, got whooping cough from all of my vaxed classmates at age six and I passed it on to my unvaxed five year old sister.

[Attached Mama]

I'd say "Even if I lived prior to herd immunity (because I prob won't convince them it doesn't exist) I'd still choose to not vaccinate. With modern medicine, these diseases are not dangerous. By the 1950's pretty much noone was dying of things like measles, mumps and rubella. And I mean chicken pox... PULEEZ... it was a right of passage when we were kids. Noone was afraid we were going to DIE from it. And for my mom, it was the same with things like measles. It was simply a minor inconvenience and childhood right of passage and getting it actually strengthened the immune system. I'd far rather have my child go thru that than to inject them with formaldehyde, mercury and aluminum and bits of diseases derived from aborted fetal tissue!"

That's about what I'd say.

[AMum]

Thanks all, I actually got this gem from a friend who created and followed her own selective and delayed vax schedule. I was really caught off guard. It seemed to me that her delivery was somewhat wry and smug. Her kids have pretty bad allergy/asthma issues. She did as a child as well. Could be hereditary, could be vax related.

[Attached Mama]

Originally Posted by applejuice

The herd theory is actually a very old theory. Someone tried to lay that guilt trip on me over thirty years ago. Obviously I did not buy it.

I am surprised that this canard is still being floated around by the pro-vax community. Can't they come up with something new?

For the record, my youngest unvaxed child did get measles, so much for the herd theory. He probably got it from a recently vaxed child who was shedding. I, unvaxed, got whooping cough from all of my vaxed classmates at age six and I passed it on to my unvaxed five year old sister.

Wow - you are the first person I've heard of who has gotten whooping cough and was not vax for it. Which brings up another point. I'd also mention how most everyon I know of who has gotten chicken pox and whooping cough were already vaccinated against it. So not only do vax not create herd immunity, they often don't even create individual immunity.

[AMum]

I like that AttachedMama. I knew there was a reason "herd immunity" was bogus, but it has been so long since I'd done research on vaccines I'd forgotten.

My kids had a well visit today with our family doctor and she recommended I read http://www.amazon.com/Saying-Vaccine...8246416&sr=1-1

Why would that book be $55?!?! I hope the library has it.

[applejuice]

Originally Posted by Attached Mama

Wow - you are the first person I've heard of who has gotten whooping cough and was not vax for it..

It was 1960-1. I also had a classmate with a brace on her leg from a bout with polio. I did not get that disease.

I also had a teacher whose husband had polio during WWII; he had a slight limp from it.

[AMum]

Originally Posted by Attached Mama

Wow - you are the first person I've heard of who has gotten whooping cough and was not vax for it. Which brings up another point. I'd also mention how most everyon I know of who has gotten chicken pox and whooping cough were already vaccinated against it. So not only do vax not create herd immunity, they often don't even create individual immunity.

Huh, all three of my non-vax kids had whooping cough when my youngest was a newborn, three years ago.

[Attached Mama]

Oh, I'm sure people get it when not vax. Just that I've found it rather ironic that up until now the only people I knew of who had gotten it were vaccinated against it.