phimosis after circumcision - help!

[whimsymom]

My son was circumcised when he was 2 weeks old. I did not want to have it done, but it was important to my husband. I now really regret letting it happen.

My son is 5 weeks old and his foreskin is growing over the penis. The doctor who did the circumcision had never seen this happen before. She first prescribed antibiotics because it looked a little swollen and she wanted to be sure there wasn't an infection. We went back yesterday for a follow up and it's only gotten worse. The opening is now down to only the size of a pin, but he can still pee. The doctor had talked with a pediatric urologist who recommended a steroid cream. We are now using the cream and are going to see the urologist Monday. If the cream isn't working, they will have to do surgery to fix it

Obviously, I'm really wishing we hadn't done the circumcision at all, but I would like to find out as much as I can so we can make an informed decision on how to treat it now and I can't find anything. Has anyone experienced this or heard of it happening? I did find one article that indicates this occurred in 2.9% of the circumcisions done at one particular clinic over 5 years:
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retri...22534705636129
If it is this common, I can't figure out why there isn't more information. I would appreciate any help or personal experience.

[alegna]

As long as he can pee- LEAVE IT ALONE.



-Angela

[DocsNemesis]

It sounds like his penis is just trying to reattach the foreskin to the glans the way it was meant to be. Its actually VERY common with circumcision. His body is simply trying to repair what was done-the foreskin is normally fused to the glans in an infant and its seperated during circumcision. His body is readhearing the foreskin is all. Leave it alone, unless he CANT pee (the opening is usually very small). Do NOT try to retract it and keep it from readhearing as that is very painful and causes even more scarring. Dont let a doctor do it either. Just clean the outside of the foreskin and leave it be-the good thing is, when its fused like that it keeps it clean and helps prevent infections

[InDaPhunk]

Sure she hasn't seen this before . This happens all. the. time.

NO more surgeries. Stop seeing the dr that did the surgery and find a DOC Dr. She has no business having anything to do with penises.

Doctors Opposing Circumcision

[dinahx]

I agree with PPs completely. Seems like there is still this obsession with having an exposed Glans in your family. His Penis is trying to heal. Why subject him to MORE meddling??? The glans should naturally have a foreskin adhered to it until your son is between 4-15 years old.

And just a gentle FTR, I don't buy 'my husband made me do it'. I just encourage you to look inside your heart, because you may have done it because YOU think a penis should look/act a certain circumcised way . . .

Please let your son HEAL!

[DocsNemesis]

Oh yeah-I forgot to mention that. It will naturally seperate, just like if he hadnt been circ'd, when he's older. He might even be an older teen before it happens, totally normal (my ds is 8.5 and still doesnt retract, nothing to be concerned about). Dont retract until then and once HE can retract it, teach HIM how to clean it (retract, swish it in plan water, put the foreskin back-its very complicated!! lol). Please dont get him recirc'd-you should be very thankful that he does have so much foreskin left

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by DocsNemesis

It sounds like his penis is just trying to reattach the foreskin to the glans the way it was meant to be. Its actually VERY common with circumcision. His body is simply trying to repair what was done-the foreskin is normally fused to the glans in an infant and its seperated during circumcision. His body is readhearing the foreskin is all. Leave it alone, unless he CANT pee (the opening is usually very small). Do NOT try to retract it and keep it from readhearing as that is very painful and causes even more scarring. Dont let a doctor do it either. Just clean the outside of the foreskin and leave it be-the good thing is, when its fused like that it keeps it clean and helps prevent infections

I 100% agree.

Please MAKE SURE NO DOCTOR trys to pull his foreskin back, it is VERY important.

And PLEASE leave his penis alone already, he was sexually assaulted/mutilated just three short weeks ago; let his mind and his body heal.

This thread has alot of good info/studies/videos, please show it to your husband, just so he knows better next time http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=822675

[bscal]

We had our DS circ'd. It was not something that I had given much thought to, quite honestly. All my friends irl had their sons circ'd so I didn't think it was a big deal. Until my son's 4 mos checkup when the doc said "oh, he has a penile adhesion" and forcibly retracted the skin. OUCH! Poor baby was quite sore and I felt so horrible for him. We went through months of using globs of Vaseline at every diaper change to keep it from happening again. Until I got tired of doing it and started reading more about it. Now I'm rather thankful that the doc who did his circ left so much skin and we just leave it alone. I remind his ped at every visit to leave it alone as well. (It was NOT our normal ped who retracted it.)

We plan on having more children and if we are blessed with any more sons they will not be getting circ'd.

Hugs to you, op. I know how it is to do something just to go along with DH... that's what I did. I figured he has one so he should know all about it, right? His reasons are also cultural. I really didn't have an opinion about it, kwim. Now though I do have a rather strong opinion and I refuse to put any more sons of mine through it.

Beth

[whimsymom]

I didn't even know that at this point it was an option to leave it be or that it would eventually retract on it's own. I know that would have happened if it had never been cut, but that is no longer an option for us. Does anyone know someone who has had this same thing happen, left it alone and it did retract? Or is there medical information somewhere that indicates this is an option? It has closed in fairly quickly and how do we know it won't close over completely without further intervention? It's not that I don't trust your advice, but it doesn't give me much ammo to reason with my husband and a doctor when we discuss options for treatment on Monday. I would be so relieved to just leave it be, but I'm anticipating that I will be told lots of reasons not to do that.

InDaPhunk, the link you posted to doctors who oppose circumcision isn't working for me. We are seeing a different doctor who has treated many cases like this. Maybe he'll be happy to just let us leave it, but I just don't know what he'll say until we get there & I would like to be prepared.

Thanks so much for your post, Beth. After crying considerably while reading some of the more judgmental posts, it really helped to hear that others have gone through the same thing & understand the turmoil I've been through. I really did not want to have him circumcised in the first place, but I wasn't as informed as I should have been and since my husband was male, I felt he was more qualified to make the decision in this case. I do want the best for my son & I know my husband does as well. Neither of us had any evil intent. I'm not defending the decision to let him be circumcised, but I've already beaten myself up enough about it. None of us are perfect parents. Right now he is a very content, happy baby in spite of what has been done to him. I believe everyone posting here is well-meaning & I hope that you will keep getting the word out there so people can make more informed decisions than I made. However, no amount of anti-circumcision info at this point can undo what has been done. I'm just trying to be more informed now, so I can avoid making more bad decisions.

[Fellow Traveler]

Originally Posted by whimsymom

I didn't even know that at this point it was an option to leave it be or that it would eventually retract on it's own. I know that would have happened if it had never been cut, but that is no longer an option for us. Does anyone know someone who has had this same thing happen, left it alone and it did retract? Or is there medical information somewhere that indicates this is an option? It has closed in fairly quickly and how do we know it won't close over completely without further intervention? It's not that I don't trust your advice, but it doesn't give me much ammo to reason with my husband and a doctor when we discuss options for treatment on Monday. I would be so relieved to just leave it be, but I'm anticipating that I will be told lots of reasons not to do that.

InDaPhunk, the link you posted to doctors who oppose circumcision isn't working for me. We are seeing a different doctor who has treated many cases like this. Maybe he'll be happy to just let us leave it, but I just don't know what he'll say until we get there & I would like to be prepared.

Thanks so much for your post, Beth. After crying considerably while reading some of the more judgmental posts, it really helped to hear that others have gone through the same thing & understand the turmoil I've been through. I really did not want to have him circumcised in the first place, but I wasn't as informed as I should have been and since my husband was male, I felt he was more qualified to make the decision in this case. I do want the best for my son & I know my husband does as well. Neither of us had any evil intent. I'm not defending the decision to let him be circumcised, but I've already beaten myself up enough about it. None of us are perfect parents. Right now he is a very content, happy baby in spite of what has been done to him. I believe everyone posting here is well-meaning & I hope that you will keep getting the word out there so people can make more informed decisions than I made. However, no amount of anti-circumcision info at this point can undo what has been done. I'm just trying to be more informed now, so I can avoid making more bad decisions.

I agree it's time to put what has happened behind and figure out the most conservative way to help whimsymom. I have some thoughts, not sure if they've been mentioned yet, but here it goes. First, my guess is that the swelling which looks like infection (for which you got the ABX) is simply the penis trying to heal itself after being torn away from the glans. So it is readhearing. There has been trauma to that part and it is like a fat lip swollen perhaps a bit sore and red but not necessarily infected. Usually to diagnose infections we suggest that you have your pedi do a culture/swab. I don't think there is any chance of the foreskin sealing itself as you describe and I would say that so long as he is urinating fine there is proabably little reason for direct intervention. I suspect that he will proabably develop along the line of an intact boy and eventually the foreskin will separate. Though I have no personal experience along those lines.

I would also suggest if you want a more authoritative answer, in addition to anyone who might post here having been through a similar experience, you could consider calling NOCIRC or DOC and speaking them. They should be able to either reassure you that the treatment being suggested is correct and/or the least invasive or refer you to a pedi/urologist who is more 'intact' friendly. Their contact info can be found on their web page www.nocirc.org and don't worry they'll do their best to get you through this if you chose to call.

Hope this helps you out.

[pantufla]

Whimsymom, I'm sorry you were met with such judgment. Hang in there.

[calngavinsmom]

Originally Posted by whimsymom

Thanks so much for your post, Beth. After crying considerably while reading some of the more judgmental posts, it really helped to hear that others have gone through the same thing & understand the turmoil I've been through. I really did not want to have him circumcised in the first place, but I wasn't as informed as I should have been and since my husband was male, I felt he was more qualified to make the decision in this case. I do want the best for my son & I know my husband does as well. Neither of us had any evil intent. I'm not defending the decision to let him be circumcised, but I've already beaten myself up enough about it. None of us are perfect parents. Right now he is a very content, happy baby in spite of what has been done to him. I believe everyone posting here is well-meaning & I hope that you will keep getting the word out there so people can make more informed decisions than I made. However, no amount of anti-circumcision info at this point can undo what has been done. I'm just trying to be more informed now, so I can avoid making more bad decisions.

s to you and your sweet little boy Momma. I am also sorry you got treated harshly here. Neither you nor your son deserves any more grief:

I don't know if this link will help or not but I thought I'd post it in case:
http://www.rogerknapp.com/medical/circ_incomplete.htm

This site is also searchable so you might want to try looking for more info here:
http://www.cirp.org


Oh, and if you click on "scars" in my siggy, you might get a better idea of what your son actually has(it is a list of circ complications with photos)

Good luck to you guys,
Take care,
Tara

[nini02]

Hugs to you and your son mama. I'll agree with the others that say I would probably just leave it alone at this point as long he's peeing fine. Here is a quick link about adhesions: http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/ponsky2/

RESULTS: We enrolled in our study 254 boys 1 month to 19 years 8 months old. Only 7 patients had a history of treatment of adhesion, of whom 3 had recurrent adhesions at evaluation. Patients were divided into groups based on age, including younger than 12 months (61), 13 to 60 (78), 61 to 108 (51) and 109 months old or older (64). In these groups we noted an adhesion rate of 71%, 28%, 8% and 2%, respectively. The rate of adhesions more severe than grade 1 was 30%, 10% and 0% in boys 12 months old or younger, 13 to 60 and 61 months old or older, respectively. The oldest patient with grade 3 adhesions was 31 months old. Skin bridges in 6 cases involved the circumcision line in 4.

CONCLUSIONS: Penile adhesions develop after circumcision and the incidence decreases with patient age. Although there is debate on whether to lyse these adhesions manually, our findings suggest that adhesions resolve without treatment. Based on our results we do not recommend lysing penile adhesions, except perhaps those involving the circumcision line.

Also, here is the corrected link to DOC

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/

[dinahx]

I am sorry you feel judged, but you are STILL trying to side with the doctors and your husband over your SON. PPs have provided TONS of resrouces. This is not something that has to be fixed by MORE circumcision . . . A urologist who peforms Circs for a LIVING has NO objectivity on this issue . . .

My point was just that you have to change your heart before you can change anyone's mind . . .

DHs are NOT penis experts just because they have them . . . Do you own a car? Are you an auto mechanic because you own a car?

[carriebft]

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...13&postcount=2


pleeeasseee read this!

[Yulia_R]

I'm sorry...

I’m so sorry, mama for my harsh response. It wasn’t judgmental though. It just breaks my heart to read stories like yours and I cry for every baby who had to bear the horrible consequences of this horrific practice. I’m so deeply sorry.

I can only imagine how much pain you’re going through right now . As a mother who deeply regrets vaccinating my first child, I know guilt feeling all too well . It’s so hard to forgive ourselves, I was driving myself crazy with all those “this helpless baby’s well-being was depending on me and I failed him”, “it was my responsibility to do my homework and I didn’t” . But the simple truth is sometimes you just don’t know that you don’t know. If you don’t know that something is missing, you just don’t look for it.
I still deeply regret over the shots my son got, but I had to learn to forgive myself with time. We all make mistakes .

[whimsymom]

Originally Posted by dinahx

I am sorry you feel judged, but you are STILL trying to side with the doctors and your husband over your SON. PPs have provided TONS of resrouces. This is not something that has to be fixed by MORE circumcision . . . A urologist who peforms Circs for a LIVING has NO objectivity on this issue . . .

My point was just that you have to change your heart before you can change anyone's mind . . .

DHs are NOT penis experts just because they have them . . . Do you own a car? Are you an auto mechanic because you own a car?

Actually, there were no resources in the posts before your original post and my second post except the link to DOC that did not work. I don't know how it works at your house, but here my husband and I both take responsibility for parenting decisions. When we disagree either one of us has to persuade the other or we agree to disagree and find the best compromise we can. I wouldn't be here asking for information if I didn't want what is best for my son. If you have never had your children circumcised, how can you know that this will resolve itself and not cause further complications? I've already said that I would love to leave it alone, but I need more than just my desire and a few other opinions to know that it will be the best for my son.

Thanks to all the rest of you for the resources and support. I am going through them right now!

[thixle]

First of all Where I'm from, circ is usually reguarded as normal and pain-free as cutting the umbilical cord... so, I really do know there is very little IRL info, doctors just cut it off and don't know what to do from there because they were never taught, either. Just another one of societies failures there.

Originally Posted by whimsymom

I wouldn't be here asking for information if I didn't want what is best for my son. If you have never had your children circumcised, how can you know that this will resolve itself and not cause further complications? I've already said that I would love to leave it alone, but I need more than just my desire and a few other opinions to know that it will be the best for my son.

I only have a daughter (like Yulia, we vaxed our DD, and I regret it horribly... anyway, can't change the past, even though I feel horrible about it),... but I'm pretty well read on circ. I fell into the rabbit hole and was just so horrified by it all that I read everything I could get my hands on, became a regular here and a couple other "foreskin related" sites.

THE DOCTORS USUALLY DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT FORESKIN. Urologists are paid to cut the "pesky" foreskin off, not try to save it. All they learn in med school is to cut it off. Really, maybe 3 paragraphs in a textbook. Doctor's Opposing Circ would be the absolute best place to start for foreskin-friendly doctors. They will take a conservative route and try to keep your DS from further damage or amputation.

The doctor who did the circ said she had never seen the foreskin heal back to the glans before??? Has she ever done a follow-up on a boy she circ'ed??? There is a bond between the foreskin and glans at birth. It gradually breaks down until the foreskin finally detatches, making it possible to retract, if the opening of the forskin is also loose enough. The bond is like the bond between your fingernail and nailbed. Okay-- now, in order to be circ'ed, the surgeon has to break that open and retract the foreskin. That leaves an open wound (just like if you rip off a fingernail). Now, if you think about your fingernail and imagine that your fingernails were supposed to painlessly come loose during puberty... Well, would you use steroid creams that mimic puberty hormones on an infant? It is just rushing a process that will happen on it's own time... Now, if you let that bond heal to itself (the foreskin is NOT going to grow over the ureter {pee} opening, there would have to be a wound created on that area for it to fuse), it will grow right back almost as good as it was origionally. Just like if you have ever had a fingernail rip up underneath. There are a few studies floating around about how those adhesions heal and release on their own, *just like an intact foreskin.* As long as he can pass urine, leave it alone. Really. It sounds bad, and sounds like it should be illegal, but MOST DOCTORS HAVE NO CLUE WHAT TO DO WITH FORESKIN EXCEPT CUT IT OFF. As your son is now, he should have enough shaft skin to prevent "marital" problems later in life. If they keep messing with it, trying to retract (open that bond again and again), it will most likely end up in "true adhesions" aka scar tissue. Another surgery will remove nerves, blood vessels and leave scars. Scar tissue has no feeling in an area meant for extreme feeling

Crap, brb...

[InDaPhunk]

Originally Posted by whimsymom

InDaPhunk, the link you posted to doctors who oppose circumcision isn't working for me. We are seeing a different doctor who has treated many cases like this. Maybe he'll be happy to just let us leave it, but I just don't know what he'll say until we get there & I would like to be prepared.

Sorry that didn't work, I have no clue why it didn't . It's correct now.

Also, contact Marilyn Milos if you can (I think you can find her info if you do a quick MDC search or maybe someone else can post it here). Talk to her and a DOC dr before you make any decisions. Please. I wasn't kidding when I rolled my eyes that the dr hadn't seen it before because what you're describing is probably the number one complication for circumcision (except for maybe meatal stenosis which is also v.v. common). I agree with PP that maybe it's just because the dr never sees a penis post circumcision bc really, this happens allllll the time. Go to a mainstream circumcision board and search "adhesions" and you'll see what I mean. Surgery will not fix adhesions and the last thing your DS needs is more skin taken off.

It truly does come down to "if he can pee then leave it alone". That is all you need to know at this point- other than it will resolve itself over time.

I feel bad for you that some people here acted "harshly"- not that I think they were wrong but that you feel it was throwing salt in a wound. I can explain why they did- I think. The thought of someone cutting even more skin off of your DS's penis scares the absolute shit out of them. It's so terrifying to think that it may happen again....it truly is just upsetting to us *for* your son. If we could get on our hands and knees and beg you to not let them touch your DS's penis with a knife every one of us would do it. So please know that the harshness came from a good place, even if it felt terrible to read. The fact that you're still seeing the dr that did the surgery and that you're going to a urologist recommended by this person makes us think that the advice you're getting is extremely biased. And if the urologist "has seen many cases like this" then how could the initial dr not know that this is a common result of circumcision? Clearly, it happens often. Remember that they stand to make money from surgery, therefore their agenda is not the same as yours and they may not have your DS's best interest at heart. But then thixle said everything better than I could.

Please continue to come here for discussion. We want to help you through this. I know it is difficult .

edited to add: Oh yes, and as for the dr being "happy to just let us leave it".... you must remember that this is your son, you make medical decisions for him and you don't have to go by his recommendations. He doesn't have to "let" you do anything. You can get as many second, third and fourth opinions as you want. DS is urinating normally so this is not an emergent case so take your time. As much as you need.

[Devaskyla]

There are several studies which show leaving it alone is less traumatic & has better results than tearing it back, which is likely what the doctor will want to do. Either that or they'll want to cut more off, which will make it even more likely to cause your ds problems as an adult.

I'm sure someone has the link to at least one of the studies.

Here's a link to a post that seems to have some info that might help you
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...44&postcount=6