The Thyroid Thread (Part II) - Page 9

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

Anne, could you add the reference ranges too? Esp for something like free T4, I don't remember, but I think healthy, feeling good people are in the upper third IIRC. Also, yes, that TSH looks high to me.


Jacqueline--wish I could kick her a$$ long-distance for you. At least my midwife believed I felt horrible and had turned hypo, but we couldn't figure out how to get help (my doc blew me off, her doc looked at my labs and said they weren't bad enough for him to treat even though I had symptoms), but just the support was huge. Can you avoid appointments with this one midwife (sounds like a practice)? Avoiding negative people really helped, I didn't have the extra energy to fight, I just needed to get through each day (preferably without yelling too much at my toddler : ). It feels never-ending, but you will get through this, and there will be some things you can take from it that will be good.

*Both* of the mws are blowing off the hypo symptoms (and one has hypo herself). They defer to my doctor, who apparently defers to the lab reference ranges. Luckily, I'm going to see my ND in a couple of weeks who *was* doing my thyroid stuff before. If worst comes to worst, I'm probably going to increase my meds 1/4 grain myself to see if it helps. I'll get in crap from the medical professionals, but hey, they're not the ones who have to live in this body. My feet (plantar fascitis) are killing me, I'm exhausted, my hair's falling out again, my skin is dry, my sex drive (which I had finally had a semblance of before I got pregnant) is non-existant- even though I *want* to have sex with DH, I cannot get my body to respond appropriately (the only time I've been like *that* is when I'm hypo). Bleh.
The problems with the one mw are her stance on bfing in pregnancy and her beliefs about when m/s is a problem. I basically just ignore her.

ETA: Oh and yes, from what I recall, the T4 should be in the upper third.

[ChristSavesAll]

Originally Posted by Daizynee

Hi everyone,
I haven't been diagnosed with anything (well, haven't seen a doc) just having suspicions that perhaps my thyroid is overactive.

I had a baby 10 months ago (my second), I lost all the baby weight pretty quickly and in the last couple months have lost an additional 10-12 pounds - I guess this is what has me thinking about a thyroid prob because I have not tried whatsoever through diet or exercise. I used to exercise at least 4 times a week to try to lose/maintain. and now it seems the weight just keeps dropping off while I do nothing. I am still nursing so maybe I am just lucky? It is just weird for me as this has never been my 'problem'. I have always had to 'work' to keep my weight down. I am pretty average - about 5'5" and now about 120 pounds. My average was around 132. I did get down to 124 when I had circumstancial depression a few years ago.

I do have some other possible symptoms:
Frequent bowel movements - talking 3 or 4 times each morning - usually very loose.

Fatigue and Insomnia - Throughout my life I have had bouts of insomnia though and the fatigue could be attributed to being at home with my 2 girls.

Concentration - some days I just can't get my words out, can't focus, feel like I don't know how I can get through the day. Also used to have a really good memory, now CRS.

Dizziness - throughout my life I have had dizzy spells sometimes accompanied by hot/cold flashes. I have mentioned it to doc's and they have blamed low blood pressure.

Mood swings/depression = I do suffer these, however as mentioned before I have had circumstancial depression which the circumstance is something that kind of lingers at times in my life.

Neck pain - Not sure if this is even worth mentioning but I almost always have a sore, tense neck. No bumps or goiters or anything though. I think it is just wear I carry my tension.

So...I am not sure if this is something I should bother going to a doc for or if I should just consider myself lucky that I have been able to bounce back to my teenage weight.

Should I be concerned?
TIA

you need iodine and some adrenal support like siberian ginseng. naking but will post info links later

[ChristSavesAll]

Originally Posted by llnmaw

I went to see my care provider and got my labs. I was surprised to see that my testosterone has tanked! This is sorta funny to me because I do still have a fairly decent sex drive...just to exhausted to do much of anything about it!

Labs:
Thyroglobulin Auto Antibody: <20 (range:0.0-40.00)
Thyroid Peroxidase Auto Ab: <10 (range:0.0-35.0)
TSH Reflex: 1.79 (range:.040-5.00) **This was 0.9 in Jan 08**
B12: 549 (range: 247-911)
Folate: >24 (range:5.4-24.0)
Free Testosterone:0.8 (range:5.0-40.0) Egads eh??!?
Rheumatoid Factor: 24 (range <20)
Free T4: 1.1 (range: .07-1.5)
Cyclic Citrullinated Peptd AB:3 (range: <20)

Is the thyroglobulin the one that would indicate Hashimotos?
I think we missed the free t3?
Is there anything missing from my list (re: thyroid eval) that I still should get?

Sadly I came away from my appt. feeling a bit like a dork. Not really my care providers fault, just how I felt I guess. I did put together my list and I nearly chickened out and kept it in my pocket because it felt like a goofy list of complaints! Is that totally lame of me or what? In the end I'm still not on anything for my thyroid because....drum roll please....my labs don't indicate a need for it! ::: She said that we would just keep watching my labs and when my TSH starts to move then we could get started on a low dose and wait for my numbers to really shoot up to adjust it.

By far my biggest complaint is fatigue - well that and a giant thyroid with a nice fat and happy growth - and the more we discussed my fatigue we are in agreement that I'm not sleeping well. Which I'm not. So I got a prescription for something and really hesitate to take it! I want sleep. I need sleep. I don't want to take a pill to help me sleep! I truly believe if my body was functioning as it should sleep would come much easier.

A final question. Should I ask for a referral to an endo? When my RA factor came back indicating RA she quickly and without hesitation referred me to a rheumatologist. If she thinks I'm having a thyroid disease why not send me to a person that has this as a specialty too?

Time to grow a spine and ask for something for my thyroid and a referral - right?

~L.

Oh honey you poor thing! Please tell me SOMEONE has told you about iodine?!! Get your levels tested!!!

You need iodoral, selenium, vit e, zinc, fish oil, and something for your adrenals like licorice root(only for 6 weeks max then switch to) siberian ginseng(two weeks on two weeks off I think it is).

[ChristSavesAll]

Originally Posted by kdegroo

Wow, I am so grateful for this thread. Already, I don't feel so alone!

After several docs and way too much energy advocating for myself, I was diagnosed with Hashimotos (tsh 117 unmedicated!) and adrenal burnout. I've been on Armour for 8 months and feel much better.

Right now, though, I am REALLY struggling with rage at my husband and no patience for my poor dd.

I just had my tsh tested and it was 1.9. Should I raise my dosage? Does anyone else have experience with rage symptoms and subtle lab results?

I just want to feel joy;(

Thanks everyone. And big hugs to you all.

Here is a link with tons of other links regarding iodine deficiency and connections with other things...


Here is a link with a list of iodine deficiency symptoms

Remember things like fluoride, chlorine, bromide, lead, and mercury inhibit the uptake of iodine...

However with a high dosage of iodine it can help your body detox these heavy metals, by excreting it through your urine.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by ChristSavesAll

Remember things like fluoride, chlorine, bromide, lead, and mercury inhibit the uptake of iodine...

However with a high dosage of iodine it can help your body detox these heavy metals, by excreting it through your urine.

Isn't mobilization of toxic chemicals (including heavy metals) not a wise idea without proper support for detox pathways?

[ChristSavesAll]

Originally Posted by gardenmom

Frannie, your dd's symptoms sound exactly like mine (except back pain).

I've been reading along, and have some questions:

For those of you taking Armour, what time of day do you take it? I got my Rx in the evening and started right away 30mg 1x/day, but my friend who has been through all this said to definitely take it in the morning, so I skipped one evening and am now taking it in the morning. I now feel like I'm crashing around 4pm again, so will probably need a higher dose when I go over this with my Dr or need to split the dose and take it twice a day. Any thoughts on timing or split dosage? (The package insert had nothing to say on when I should take it, by the way.)

Also, can you OD on iodine? The day I went to the ER with the whopper of a case of vertigo, I had just started supplementing with kelp iodine (two days in a row, 225mcg tablet) then had a very large shellfish dinner on the second day, and woke up with severe vertigo (vertigo was definitely related to a sinus infection, though other factors are at work here). I was wondering if I should try it again, or wait for more input. It seems like a very basic/no worries type of supplement, but I'm wondering if anyone has had problems with it.

You should be careful when taking kelp as it also has arsenic in it as well as bromin which inhibits the uptake of iodine... one can only "overdose" on iodine once your body has reached sufficiency (highly unlikely unless you've been supplementing 50mg a day for a year) and still take 20mg per day... Once sufficiency has been reached you should be consuming at LEAST 12.5mg of iodine a day. I have an Iodoral source for 33 bucks for a 180 pill bottle! Each pill has 12.5 mg in case you don't know about iodoral, so thats a 6 month supply!

I'm waiting for mine in the mail! Can't wait till it gets here, the whole family will be getting their daily dose.

[ChristSavesAll]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

Yeah, I don't know how many times this pregnancy I've had my blood sugar tested and been tested for anemia because of my symptoms. One of the mws in my practice doesn't believe nausea/vomiting's a problem before 20weeks ("Lots of women lose weight in the first and early 2nd trimester." and, of course, the tiredness is from being pregnant. ("Every pregnant woman is tired. It's normal." REALLY? Every pregnant woman can sleep for 12 or more hours a day and wake up still feeling like an unwiped a$$?!!)
Sorry. I'm getting a little tired of this song and dance and you guys (here on MDC) seem to be the only ones that listen to me at all. I'm going to go and cry now.

Did you know the first two months during pregnancy the baby uses your thyroid to get the hormones it needs? By the third trimester they have grown their own and are relying on that, but they pick up any deficiencies that you have unfortunately.

[ChristSavesAll]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

Isn't mobilization of toxic chemicals (including heavy metals) not a wise idea without proper support for detox pathways?

Unfortunately I've got two 5 year olds to get off to bed and a 5 month old needing some attention since she's teething so I dont have time to provide links... BUT "support for detox pathways"? Iodine moves the heavy metals out of your body primarily through your urine, some unfortunately(happens without supplementation) in your breastmilk. Taking high doses of iodine to detox will cause you to experience symptoms of bromine toxicity but it subsides after about a week ( longer for some people or with higher dosage) and you feel waaaay better afterwards.

Here is a blog about one womans journey using iodoral to detox

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by ChristSavesAll

Unfortunately I've got two 5 year olds to get off to bed and a 5 month old needing some attention since she's teething so I dont have time to provide links... BUT "support for detox pathways"? Iodine moves the heavy metals out of your body primarily through your urine, some unfortunately(happens without supplementation) in your breastmilk. Taking high doses of iodine to detox will cause you to experience symptoms of bromine toxicity but it subsides after about a week ( longer for some people or with higher dosage) and you feel waaaay better afterwards.

Here is a blog about one womans journey using iodoral to detox

Yes, support for detox pathways- the manners in which your body actually gets rid of toxins ie your kidneys and urinary tract.
If there isn't enough of the vitamins to keep these organs functioning optimally (there's more to it than just your kidneys and urinary tract but I haven't been able to do as much research on the particulars of detoxing as I'd like), then much of the toxins mobilized through an iodine increase will actually resettle into other organs and tissues *increasing* the damage you have from them. At least, that's how I've understood what I've read so far on the subject.

[ChristSavesAll]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

Yes, support for detox pathways- the manners in which your body actually gets rid of toxins ie your kidneys and urinary tract.
If there isn't enough of the vitamins to keep these organs functioning optimally (there's more to it than just your kidneys and urinary tract but I haven't been able to do as much research on the particulars of detoxing as I'd like), then much of the toxins mobilized through an iodine increase will actually resettle into other organs and tissues *increasing* the damage you have from them. At least, that's how I've understood what I've read so far on the subject.

I will have to find the link but iodine should be in every cell of your body, unfortunately the heavy metals previously listed take the place of iodine in your body. Sooo when you do supplement iodine it is constantly pushing the bad out and replacing it with the good (iodine). There is no resettling, its constantly moving out.

here is a link about bromide

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by ChristSavesAll

I will have to find the link but iodine should be in every cell of your body, unfortunately the heavy metals previously listed take the place of iodine in your body. Sooo when you do supplement iodine it is constantly pushing the bad out and replacing it with the good (iodine). There is no resettling, its constantly moving out.

here is a link about bromide

The problem is that your major organs store and require more than just iodine. They are storage centers for multiple vitamins and minerals and, if you don't have enough of the other vitamins and minerals which those organs store and require, you *will* have resettlement of the toxins into the storage centers of the other vitamins and minerals. So making certain that you know the "path" a toxin follows to leave the body is absolutely essential in order to prevent that resettlement. It's not as simple as "I'm only clearing out the iodine receptors so if I just keep pushing iodine, it's all good."

[KatWrangler]

Originally Posted by WuWei

Also, some Bach Flower remedies are your friend.

Adding Natural Calm will help significantly. http://www.calmnatural.com/product/18340500004

As well as some Bach Flower remedies. They are all natural, safe remedies for stress, upset, fear, depression, etc. You can select those that best suit based upon reading about each one or taking the quiz at the remedy finder (first link). You can choose up to 5 or so and mix a few drops of each in water and sip as needed, or take straight in the midst of a stressful situation.

Guaranteed to help. :

http://www.ainsworths.com/remedy/default.aspx

http://www.bachcentre.com/centre/remedies.htm

http://www.bachflower.com/38_Essences.htm

I love Rescue Remedy.

The big thing is to increase your health status. Increase consumption of CLO, CO, magnesium, zinc, vitamins A, B, C, D, E, bone broths, whole food probiotics: yogurt, kefir, kombucha, fermented vegetables.

Epsom salt baths will help with stress!


You have a busy and challenging month ahead.


Pat

Are all these safe while breastfeeding? I'm going to see if the Rescue Remedy is available locally.

ETA - If I get the Natural Calm, what dosage?

Is there anything to help with all this weight I have gained?

[gardenmom]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

The problem is that your major organs store and require more than just iodine. They are storage centers for multiple vitamins and minerals and, if you don't have enough of the other vitamins and minerals which those organs store and require, you *will* have resettlement of the toxins into the storage centers of the other vitamins and minerals. So making certain that you know the "path" a toxin follows to leave the body is absolutely essential in order to prevent that resettlement. It's not as simple as "I'm only clearing out the iodine receptors so if I just keep pushing iodine, it's all good."

When dd was a baby I read a lot on lead poisoning, and recall reading (it's been a while so I'm rusty) that if you detox lead or other heavy metals from your body, but are still exposed to those in the environment, that you may end up with more of a problem as there will be more openings for the metals to bond to your cells, unless you have sufficient iron in your system to fill those "spaces" when the lead is removed.

While I'm certainly a newbie at this iodine thing, I think it could be problematic to start any course of detox without being sure that the other micronutrients are in good supply, particularly those that will help block reabsorption of the toxins.

[gardenmom]

Originally Posted by ChristSavesAll

You should be careful when taking kelp as it also has arsenic in it as well as bromin which inhibits the uptake of iodine... one can only "overdose" on iodine once your body has reached sufficiency (highly unlikely unless you've been supplementing 50mg a day for a year) and still take 20mg per day... Once sufficiency has been reached you should be consuming at LEAST 12.5mg of iodine a day. I have an Iodoral source for 33 bucks for a 180 pill bottle! Each pill has 12.5 mg in case you don't know about iodoral, so thats a 6 month supply!

Thanks for the kelp info. I assume Idoral is a safe/pure brand? I'd love if you would PM with your source, please.

My local friend with the Hypothyroid has used medical iodine (liquid that they use for surgeries), and told me that she paints it on her belly, it will absorb into the skin--almost totally disappear--she keeps reapplying it until her body stops absorbing it when it has what it needs.

Anybody else heard this?

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by gardenmom

Thanks for the kelp info. I assume Idoral is a safe/pure brand? I'd love if you would PM with your source, please.

My local friend with the Hypothyroid has used medical iodine (liquid that they use for surgeries), and told me that she paints it on her belly, it will absorb into the skin--almost totally disappear--she keeps reapplying it until her body stops absorbing it when it has what it needs.

Anybody else heard this?

There are a fair few mamas here who do this. I believe the brand is Lugol's.

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by KatWrangler

Are all these safe while breastfeeding? I'm going to see if the Rescue Remedy is available locally.

ETA - If I get the Natural Calm, what dosage?

Is there anything to help with all this weight I have gained?

The Bach Flower remedies are in a brandy alcohol foundation. So, if grapes are an issue, that might not work for you. Otherwise, I'm comfortable giving the 1-2 drops to a baby directly. And definitely comfortable with taking while pregnant and/or nursing. Most natural food stores or natural health markets will have RR. It is much cheaper online, about 1/2 the price, ime. We order any supplements from Vitacost. com. But, it takes a week.

The Natural Calm is a powder. Start with 1/2 tsp and gradually increase to bowel tolerance. The dose on the canister says 1-3 tsp. So, maybe 1/2 tsp twice a day for a few days, then increase to three times a day. Then 1 tsp twice a day...

If you get loose stools, slow down for the day and start back on the last dose. Take ongoing. I take it daily, as our food stores (and soils) are depleted of magnesium. If it makes you lazy or sleepy, consider taking it just at bedtime. And a smaller dose during the day.

I don't know about weight issues. Except that as our metabolism slows, we burn fewer calories. Also, if our foods are not nutritionally dense or nutritional absorption is impaired (leaky gut), we consume more to get the nutrients we need. There is some new info about specific bacteria in the gut determining the ability of the body to adequately get nutrition from foods. The studies indicated that folks with xyz bacteria didn't have weight issues. But, folks without xyz bacteria did. (No, I don't know which bacteria.)


Pat

[WuWei]

We need Panserbjørne to chime in about detox issues. My understanding is that as mercury is "released" from wherever it is stored in the body, some of it resettles in the other organs and brain, unless it *binds* with something to carry it out of the body.

My primitive understanding is that vit C, selenium, magnesium sulfate, zinc, Chlorella?, vit E, pascalite clay, glutathione, Zeolite bind and transport heavy metals which are "freely" released in the body.

I'm not doubting the benefits of adequate iodine intake. I'm just not clear on the *interconnected* relationship to what else is happening in the body. If ONE thing alone could "cure", we'd all be doing it. So, I imagine there are more "yes, buts" and "but, ifs" than just supplementing iodine.

It sounds like the iodine displaces and replaces the heavy metals (I've not read the links yet). But, WHAT HAPPENS to the released heavy metals is the concern. It doesn't all go through the kidneys and breastmilk. It seems to me, that the key would be adequate intake and stores of the other vitamins and mineral stores before releasing heavy metals. I believe that heavy metals are stored in our bones also, and perhaps displace calcium?? So, all of the minerals are interconnected.

I also believe that kelp food sources and supplements could be tested for arsenic.



Pat

[KatWrangler]

Okay, I just ordered RR and Natural Calm. I called our local natural store and they were alot higher. Especially on the NC.

[gardenmom]

Originally Posted by WuWei

I believe that heavy metals are stored in our bones also, and perhaps displace calcium??

Lead definitely does this, so it follows that other heavy metals would.

Originally Posted by WuWei

I also believe that kelp food sources and supplements could be tested for arsenic.

Do you mean you think they already do that (makes sense that they should, right?) or they "could"?

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by KatWrangler

Okay, I just ordered RR and Natural Calm. I called our local natural store and they were alot higher. Especially on the NC.

Yes, I about had a heart attack when I went to buy Natural Calm locally! It was like $14 for 8 oz, vs. $16 for 16 oz or something like that!

Pat