The Thyroid Thread (Part II) - Page 2

[llnmaw]

Originally Posted by AfricanQueen99

llnmaw - I'm jus tossing that out there. If you have a growth on a vital organ then this is a problem.

A girl on another board of mine had a partial thyroidectomy because she had a growth, negative biopsy, fine levels, etc BUT something was wrong. They lopped off that part of her thyroid (cancer free) and she now feels great.

Oh my gosh! Thank you for saying that! Since hearing I had a growth on my thyroid I have assumed it would be removed because it does not belong there! Everyone looks at me cross eyed wondering why I would not just leave well enough alone. I mean, it's not cancer so what if it hangs out there?!?! Right? Umm...no.

Let me be sure I understand you though. Even though my biopsy is negative I could still have cancer? How would one go about getting diagnosed if biopsy (had a fine needle aspiration done) was negative? How would someone convince their hcp to do further investigation?

And just how do you push for a surgery when it would seem to be unnecessary?

Now I'm gonna ramble and see if anyone sees a connection to any of this. This year my pap came back 'abnormal'. I'm not really even sure what abnormal meant other than - well- not normal. This was before I'd had the u/s on my thyroid so when the office called to tell me I'd need a recheck in 3 months I put the whole issue in the back of my head as nothing to worry about - as they said I should do. THEN...I began having bloody noses, seemingly random, but I did notice a pattern. I also have a sore high up in my nostril (actually now I have one in each side)that won't go away. My nose does not bleed from the sore though. It bleeds when I cry, bend over or lay on the floor on my tummy with my head propped in my hands (like to play a game with kids). It stops really quickly but comes on as a gusher. Seems to be 'pressure' related? Hcp said maybe I have a blood vessel that needs to be cauterized and if it did not stop she would refer me to someone.

So I add it all up. Large thyroid, good size nodule, sores in my nose that won't heal, bloody noses, abnormal pap - I MUST have cancer! I won't have my pap until mid September. Should I push to get this done sooner? Since I'd had the cancer all clear re: thyroid I've just assumed I was in the clear so to speak.

Sigh....I know those are all really random things.

~L.

[AfricanQueen99]

Honestly? I would start making a list of *everything* you know is just a little "off" right now. That stuff you mentioned, when it happens, how you get it to stop, etc. Then go in and see another doc with everything. I've found that most mainstream docs take me *much* more seriously when I've organized my notes about my health - almost like they won't take you seriously until you own it (if that makes sense).

I'm also not a medical professional so I'm certainly not saying you have cancer, but I've been around the cancer block to know how many people have negative FNA only to have cancer.

Oh, one more thing, just to show you how it's all connected. I had heartburn nightly for the year before I was diagnosed. I told my PCP, my surgeon and my oncologist about this - they all said that it's not a side effect of cancer. Why wouldn't I believe three physicians, right? Yeah, I joined a cancer listserv and the amount of people with that *exact* symptom was amazing.

So, yeah, I'd push and not take no for an answer. YOU own your health...YOU are the only person that can force them to listen.

[NoMariposa]

Help me (I am dx hypo on meds)

I'm so fatigued right now, have been for a few weeks. I'm talking about days of doing absolutely nothing. Usually, I'm able to do the bare mins like cooking a meal for the family, but I can't even seem to do that the way I should.

I'm not eating much, too tired. I'm not preping food for my kids, too tired. I'm so zero energy it just is depressing. I don't think I'm depressed. I want to cook, I want to tidy the kitchen up to cook, I just can't make myself get up.

I'm sleeping at night. I go to bed early enough and haven't had to get up early. I can barely get out of bed in the morning. And I then have zero energy to get up and do anything. I am at a lost as to why I'm so fatigued.

My pharmacy is out of Armour (just incase someone else wanted confirmation on that). I recently increased my dosage to 1G, that was say 2 1/2 months ago with no improvement of my symtpoms. And at this moment, I'm as low energy as I was when I was diangosed, if not more low. I've been on meds since June 07. Did I get a zero effective batch of Armour?

I've decided to go to Synthroid and Cytomel combo. I have to call my doc, but I can't remember until it's too late in the day.

I started looking at taking a bunch of supplements again. I know that will take a few weeks to kick in.

I wonder if I've got more going on than just my low thyroid. I mean this sucks to be this zapped. (super sucks b/c I can't make myself get to the dump with the garbage and it's just sickening)

[lil_miss_understood]

You didn't mention what your test results are like. Regardless, from what I've read, people usually need to be on a minimum of 1G to see any improvement in symptoms, often it needs to be more along the lines of 2-3G.
Are you taking the Armour sublingually? and are you taking it half in the morning and half in the afternoon? I've heard both of those things have made a huge difference for some people.
I only have hear-say to go on, but others may have more reliable information for you. I'm not on Armour (yet), still on Synthroid (ick). I've been having many problems similar to what you're describing. I understand it's actually quite typical to be under-medicated. (Stupid doctors grumble.)

[NoMariposa]

Test results -- If I remember correctly Free T4 prior to 1 year on meds was .7, .8 within range. Free T3 also just below range as well. After 1 year my Free T4 was still .7 and my Total T3 was at the very high end of the range.

I'd have to dig them up from who knows where to find all the tests and numbers. TSH was .72 (in 05 when I first started thinking I might have a thyroid problem) and .82 in May 07. Those TSH show me being hyper, but I'm overweight and tired. I gaine weight on water!

I have a doc who is not an endo treating me. He sent me to the endo and the endo sent me away stating nothing was wrong with me. Endo lived on TSH numbers just like my old doctor in 05. So I went back to my doc and asked for Free T4 and Free T3 tests. I failed to specify Free T3 at my follow up at 1 year.

I felt pretty good on 1/2 gain, but still tired a lot. I increase it to 1G nearly 12 weeks ago. And in the last 2 weeks I've felt like death warmed over. And 4 weeks ago my face broke out at my chin and has been flaring ever since.

As soon as the kids go back to school, I intend to ask for Reverse T3 testing. I have to figure out what else. Something is wrong.

[xelakann]

Hi, so I am recently diagnosed with hypothyroidism... though I have LONG suspected it, it wasn't until after I was postpartum that levels were low enough for my doctors to treat. The were always in the low range (T3 and T4) on the scale, with my TSH in the high range of normal. Even though I had textbook hypothyroid symptoms.

So in July I started on the synthetic hormone... but when talking to my sons pediatrician (who is also a naturopath doctor) she talked me into 1). retesting my blood again 2). switching to Armour or Nature-throid. I chose nature-throid and just got my prescription today. I am really hoping I can see an improvement.

I got my blood work back and the synthetic stuff helped some with my TSH, but nothing with my T3 and T4 and it showed I am VERY anemic.

So my dose is really low... 1/2 grain. I read on this thread that people don't see an improvement with anything less than a grain. I know they were talking about armour, but nature-throid is essentially the same but with more natural fillers.

And can someone talk to me about taking it sublingually? What are the benefits? TIA

[NoMariposa]

I've come to believe you either help yourself or live in misery. I felt okay on 1/2 Grain, but I also do not have primary hypoT. I thought increasing might make me feel better and I think I feel worse. I don't know, but whatever the case is 12 weeks ago I started 1G and 2 weeks ago I started to have zero energy.

Doctor's know very little about real nutrition, forget the food prymid. Nutritionist even tend to know very little, unless they are alternative and then everyone has their own "push" item. Read and make judgments for yourself. My totally healthy diet ideal is highly unattainable in my weakened state and lack of energy. One vicious cycle.

Note this - Mercola tends to suggest that a person on thyroid meds for 3 to 5 years will not be able to come off of them. I have no intention of staying on meds, even if nutritional supplements cost more. I will not live dependent upon pharmaceutical corporations -- period. Just look now, Armour is out of supply.

I don't have primary hypo. I more than likely have tertiary. And I firmly believe it is from nutritional deficiencies. After pregnancy #2, I started to have symptoms and testing was TSH only fine (actually hyper by their standards, yet I could not drop 1 single pound), #3 became more evident something was wrong somewhere with skin break outs worse than in high school and I had acne pretty bad back then, plus additional weight not moving off and losing out on family time to lack of energy. And then #4 pregnancy came and wiped me out completely. I have never been so sick and tired in all my life. I developed anemia in my last pregnancy, I've never been the type prone to anemia. I developed Vit D deficiency since having moved to the upper latitudes - from 6 to 40, makes a huge difference. It took some 10 plus years for that to be dx. I suffer SADD as well.

Weight wise, I lost about 20lbs when I started 25mcg of Synthroid. I was 95lbs over a top range healthy weight. I gained some back. I have had to work super hard with gains and losses over the last year. I am down 36lbs. It's horrible b/c everything I know says to eat or shut down metabolism. If I eat, I gain weight. If I don't eat, I don't gain weight. I eat very little, say maybe 1000cals a day, some days probably a little more. Lately, I've been to tired to even attempt to think about food and eating, so even less. I know this is not healthy, when I do eat I'm eating proteins and I'm too tired to chew a carrot.

I'd love to think my tired fatigue is all thyroid, I have a gut feeling it isn't. I have to attack this from all the angles I can think of The Diet Cure recommendations, what I know about Vit D, Iron, Bvits, maybe a yeast thing, maybe it's time for light therapy again (it seems less bright out to me). I will start with those.

I think there is some hormonal imbalance going on as well. Throw that in and the ability of my brain to get it all straight just stops. The thyroid is connected to pituitary which is connected to those hormones. I asked my doc to check estrogen and progesterone, he refused b/c they change with weight changes. I had pituitary levels checked, but the doc didn't know those where specific to cycle times and I was nursing with no cycle.

In 2 weeks I can get into my docs w/o kids in tow. I have to read up more before then and make a list. By then I might be better, my skin might have cleared and he'll look at me like I'm a nutt job. I actually need a better doctor, but there are none to be had near by. At least this guy gets nutrition and is open to learning more. He has written the script for a lot of tests for me thus far, maybe my ins would not cover those other tests I wanted. Maybe the ins will now. I can only try again. He's a good guy at heart and is impressed with my improvements from when he met me. I just know I'm not back yet.

That's my plan. Any suggestions would be welcome.

[jessjgh1]

Originally Posted by AfricanQueen99

Honestly? I would start making a list of *everything* you know is just a little "off" right now... Then go in and see another doc with everything. I've found that most mainstream docs take me *much* more seriously when I've organized my notes about my health - almost like they won't take you seriously until you own it (if that makes sense).

That's a good suggestion for anyone. I have an upcoming appt. with a primary care doctor and need to compile my symptoms, rather than go in and just say, 'something's off'.
I saw a naturalpath about 2 1/2 years ago... she took the most complete medical history I've ever had at the time. Saw her again randomly about 6 months ago and asked how I was. Then I went in for a real appt. because the run in and her questons reminded me that I had wanted to follow up on her suggestions and made me realize I'd also just not felt as good as I should be. She had thought to look at thyroid, but I'm not sure what specifically made her have a hunch to do this.
I did the temp tests as a naturalpath recommended and all my temps were low.

I happened to have an appt with my midwife and mentioned the temps, etc. My midwife ran a blood test for me (I wasn't expecting her to do this, so it was just a general screen). All my levels for the test were in the normal reference range...
My Thyroid TSH was 1.76 (range .4-4.5 uIU/mL)

So now I have to figure out what is wrong when nothing comes up as wrong.

And my symptoms are not as drastic as many have posted on the list. I wish I were someone that was more in 'synch' with my body, but I just never have been. And lately I've just been to busy to notice.

Jessica

[Queen of Cups]

I also agree that its a great idea to write down a list of your concerns before going to the doctor/NP/PA. I did that and we looked at a few things - including thyroid, which is why I subscribed to this thread and asked for advice on the last one. My thyroid came back totally normal, but a low dose of Zoloft has made all the difference in the world to me the last couple of weeks. My NP thinks that, based on my chronic insomnia since age 8 or 9, that I am a low-producer of seratonin. The last couple of weeks I've been able to fall asleep before midnight most nights, which hasn't been possible for me on a regular basis since I was in elementary school! Its made a world of difference in my mood and my energy level. My problem wasn't thyroid at all, even though I felt like it was!

[lil_miss_understood]

Ok, so we got back my thyroid panel today and it's looking like Hashimoto's is the dx. Here's the results:

TSH: 3.26 (range: 0.4-2.5)
FT4: 1.4 (range: 0.8-1.9)
FT3: 2.25 (range: 1.8-4.2)
RT3: 22.2 (range: 9.0-35.0)
Anti-TG: >3000 (range: <=40)
Anti-TPO: >1000 (range: <=34)

This is while on 100 mcg levothyroxine (though that dosage had only been for 2 weeks).
So, we've agreed to start on 1 grain Naturethroid (go off the synthetic) and we started with Selenium (along with the zinc I'm already taking).
Any thoughts or advice from anyone? Best place to look up info on what a dx of Hashi's really means (besides the obvious- that it's auto-immune)?

[llnmaw]

I went to see my care provider and got my labs. I was surprised to see that my testosterone has tanked! This is sorta funny to me because I do still have a fairly decent sex drive...just to exhausted to do much of anything about it!

Labs:
Thyroglobulin Auto Antibody: <20 (range:0.0-40.00)
Thyroid Peroxidase Auto Ab: <10 (range:0.0-35.0)
TSH Reflex: 1.79 (range:.040-5.00) **This was 0.9 in Jan 08**
B12: 549 (range: 247-911)
Folate: >24 (range:5.4-24.0)
Free Testosterone:0.8 (range:5.0-40.0) Egads eh??!?
Rheumatoid Factor: 24 (range <20)
Free T4: 1.1 (range: .07-1.5)
Cyclic Citrullinated Peptd AB:3 (range: <20)

Is the thyroglobulin the one that would indicate Hashimotos?
I think we missed the free t3?
Is there anything missing from my list (re: thyroid eval) that I still should get?

Sadly I came away from my appt. feeling a bit like a dork. Not really my care providers fault, just how I felt I guess. I did put together my list and I nearly chickened out and kept it in my pocket because it felt like a goofy list of complaints! Is that totally lame of me or what? In the end I'm still not on anything for my thyroid because....drum roll please....my labs don't indicate a need for it! ::: She said that we would just keep watching my labs and when my TSH starts to move then we could get started on a low dose and wait for my numbers to really shoot up to adjust it.

By far my biggest complaint is fatigue - well that and a giant thyroid with a nice fat and happy growth - and the more we discussed my fatigue we are in agreement that I'm not sleeping well. Which I'm not. So I got a prescription for something and really hesitate to take it! I want sleep. I need sleep. I don't want to take a pill to help me sleep! I truly believe if my body was functioning as it should sleep would come much easier.

A final question. Should I ask for a referral to an endo? When my RA factor came back indicating RA she quickly and without hesitation referred me to a rheumatologist. If she thinks I'm having a thyroid disease why not send me to a person that has this as a specialty too?

Time to grow a spine and ask for something for my thyroid and a referral - right?

~L.

[lil_miss_understood]

It seems to me like it's possible that you're experiencing adrenal fatigue rather than a thyroid problem. Not sleeping well is a sign of problems with melatonin (produced by the adrenals, I believe), the secondary producer of testosterone is the adrenals as well. However, adrenals aren't my forte and I could be completely wrong- maybe it's a pituatary problem?
Just thought I'd throw that out there. Hopefully others will have better advice.

[AfricanQueen99]

Problems sleeping can also be a thyroid issue.

Your TSH doubled in eight months? I'd see an endo. Between that and the growth there is an issue.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by AfricanQueen99

Problems sleeping can also be a thyroid issue.

Your TSH doubled in eight months? I'd see an endo. Between that and the growth there is an issue.

Not sure where my brain is today, I totally missed both of those points.
ITA, an endo's a must with those two points in consideration.

[llnmaw]

Alrighty then...gonna make a phone call to ask for a referral to an endo. Thanks so much for your insight thus far!

As a strange side note here. I noticed this morning that my lab papers all have my gender listed as a male! Could that possibly make a difference when they list reference ranges? I mean a normal testosterone level for a man is bound to be different than for a woman..right? Could the same be said for TSH and all the others?

Weird and annoying stuff keeps making this all feeling as though I'm chasing a piece of fluff in a wind storm.
~L.

[tanyalynn]

I had horrible sleep problems when I first started having my thyroid and adrenal symptoms. And coincidentally (or not) I also saw a modest increase in TSH and said hey, not the same as it used to be when I felt fine, but was dismissed.

I take melatonin to sleep. You'll need an open-minded endo who will feel that an increase in TSH from 0.9 to 1.79 is significant, even with symptoms (though a growth is much more concrete, and maybe that will make a difference).

And yes, I'd see if I could get the normals for a female--I _think_ the thyroid levels are pretty much the same for men and women (not 100% sure though) but the other stuff, you should double-check.

[no5no5]

Your labs look a lot like mine. My antibodies are not as high (in the hundreds, not thousands), but otherwise our labs are pretty darn similar. I wish I had more information to give. I have not even been diagnosed yet...I had the thyroid panel done as part of an infertility workup and my RE told me the antibodies were no big deal since the rest of my labs were not far off the normal range. He gave me 25 mcg of synthroid "to prevent miscarriage" and off I went. NO diagnosis. He recommended a followup TSH in 6 weeks. NO followup antibodies or other labs. So I am just waiting to be able to see a doctor who knows something.

Anyway, the sites I have found most useful thus far are www.stopthethyroidmadness.com and about.thyroid.com. Unfortunately neither of them addressed the vast majority of my concerns.

I hope this helps.

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

Ok, so we got back my thyroid panel today and it's looking like Hashimoto's is the dx. Here's the results:

TSH: 3.26 (range: 0.4-2.5)
FT4: 1.4 (range: 0.8-1.9)
FT3: 2.25 (range: 1.8-4.2)
RT3: 22.2 (range: 9.0-35.0)
Anti-TG: >3000 (range: <=40)
Anti-TPO: >1000 (range: <=34)

This is while on 100 mcg levothyroxine (though that dosage had only been for 2 weeks).
So, we've agreed to start on 1 grain Naturethroid (go off the synthetic) and we started with Selenium (along with the zinc I'm already taking).
Any thoughts or advice from anyone? Best place to look up info on what a dx of Hashi's really means (besides the obvious- that it's auto-immune)?

[bigeyes]

you might try realthyroidhelp.com also

[ErinBird]

subbing

I'm struggling to balance my adrenal fatigue and thyroid hormones. I've been on Armour for 19mo and my TSH is now at 0.936, but my thyroid antibodies are all over the place, my cholesterol is very low (129, target 170-200), and my iron stores are low. I'm gearing up for another rearrangement of hormone levels over here :

[lil_miss_understood]

I'll check that out, bigeyes, thanks. I've been nosing around ithyroid.com lately too (again). I've never seen the realthyroidhelp.com site before. I like Stop the Thyroid Madness. There was another one I stumbled onto that I can't find now. When I find it, I'll post.
My question of the day is:
Is anyone on NatureThroid? Does anyone know if it's supposed to be taken sublingually like Armour?