The Thyroid Thread (Part II) - Page 35

[Cascadian]

Just an update:

I'm on day 10 of stopping Synthroid and taking Cytomel (T4) (remember that I still have Synthroid in my system for up to a month) - I feel AMAZING! I have so much energy, just like in the past. I haven't felt like this in YEARS! I cleaned out the linen closet and laundry room...like deep, scrubbing clean...and have energy left over. OMG.

Question: My endo said that my thyroid is probably all gone by now, or I might have a bit left He said that yes, there are some stories of them regenerating but none of the patients he knows of. Anyone know about this?

[JaneS]

Cytomel is T3, Synthroid is T4.... T3 is more active. It's "assumed" if you get T4 and your TSH is normal, your body converts to active T3. That seems to be rare with hypo patients yet apparently it doesn't occur to most mainstream drs. There are a lot of explanation from alternative thyroid drs.

Sooo... my dr. is suggesting I start Cytomel! I will post my tests later. My TSH is fine, always has been, but the reverse T3 and free/total T3 is off. Together with lingering symptoms.

I'm off to read more about Wilson's Syndrome too but I know it doesn't have a large acceptance.

Not sure about Cytomel either. Sigh.

I'm reading Dr. Mark Starr's book Hypothyroidism Type 2. VERY interesting.
http://www.21centurymed.com/?page_id=12

I have myexadema of the upper arm which is another classic hypo sx. It's easier to see with his pics that illustrate the issue, which I cannot find online. But apparently if you pinch the skin of your upper arm, the skin is supposed to be loose, regardless of how chubby or thin you are. I pinch and I get a big thick wad of skin and tissue. This is accumulated mucin.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by JaneS

I have myexadema of the upper arm which is another classic hypo sx. It's easier to see with his pics that illustrate the issue, which I cannot find online. But apparently if you pinch the skin of your upper arm, the skin is supposed to be loose, regardless of how chubby or thin you are. I pinch and I get a big thick wad of skin and tissue. This is accumulated mucin.

huh.
learn something new every day.

[nadia105]

This thread is such an amazing resource!

I was dx hypo about a year ago, a couple months after I weaned my youngest. Prior to that, I had been pg, nursing or both for the past 7 years straight. Apparently my body had no idea what to do when it wasn't growing or feeding people, and here I am. I am waiting for my latest bloodwork, which should be in any day now, but going by how I am feeling, i think i must need a med boost (currently on 50 of Levothyroxin) b/c I haven't felt this wiped out since I was dxd. I have been horrible about taking my vitamins lately, so I am going to do that as well b/c I have been deficient in vit D for a couple years.

Does anyone else have huge weight fluctuations? I immediately lost about 12 pounds when I started my meds and now I have gained 30 pounds or so over that weight. I weigh now what I weighed at 9 months pg despite being much more active at work and not changing my diet. While the weight had obviosly made verything bigger, I am carrying a lot in my stomach, which I never have before. Along with the Thyroid numbers, my doc is also checking for PCOS, I don't know how those 2 things and their treatments would work together? My hcp is great about using the newer guidelines and is very open and greast to work with, but I am on a waiting list to get into a ND to see if that pathway can help as well.

I'll be back when I have current numbers, you are so knowledgeable about all of it, it's great!

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by Cascadian

Just an update:

I'm on day 10 of stopping Synthroid and taking Cytomel (T4) (remember that I still have Synthroid in my system for up to a month) - I feel AMAZING! I have so much energy, just like in the past. I haven't felt like this in YEARS! I cleaned out the linen closet and laundry room...like deep, scrubbing clean...and have energy left over. OMG.

Question: My endo said that my thyroid is probably all gone by now, or I might have a bit left He said that yes, there are some stories of them regenerating but none of the patients he knows of. Anyone know about this?

I don't think it's a matter of regenerating. I'm guessing he means he doesn't see many patients who spontaneously improve in thyroid function. I haven't spontaneously improved, I've had to work at it, and everyone would have a different path to some extent, but quite a few people have improvements in thyroid function.

There are lots of routes to consider: acupuncture and other aspects of TCM; nutritional support (read at www.ithyroid.com for a good discussion of that approach, I gained a lot by reading there); considering food intolerances, esp gluten; reading about adrenal fatigue, and if it seems applicable, what (multiple) causes could be involved in causing it for you; looking at your overall pattern of health, both personally and your family history and addressing your personal weaknesses. Other stuff I'm sure, those are the things that spring to mind.

My understanding is that T3 levels rise and fall much more quickly than T4, so it makes sense that supplementing with T3 would provide much more improvement much more quickly. Glad you're feeling so much better!

Somewhere in the thread we discussed how selenium is required for conversion of T4 to T3, so since it sounds like that was a problem, it's something to look into.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

huh.
learn something new every day.

No kidding.

And I thought of you and your large weight loss recently when you upped your meds. Apparently this can be mucin loss, not just weight loss from a better metabolism.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by JaneS

No kidding.

And I thought of you and your large weight loss recently when you upped your meds. Apparently this can be mucin loss, not just weight loss from a better metabolism.

My skin still isn't "loose"... but the weight loss continues.

[JaneS]

That's really great JR, how many grains are you up to now?

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by janes

that's really great jr, how many grains are you up to now?

2 1/2

[nadia105]

I finally got my latest lab results back, and they are:

TSH: 2.05 range .4-4.5
Free T4: 1.0 range .8-1.8

I didn't remember to ask which labs would be run, I wish I had specifically asked about T3 an T4 numbers.

My energy is sooooo crappy right now, I have times in the afternoon when I literally can't keep my eyes open. I do get up at 3am for work, but I go to bed by 9 usually. The huge weight gain is a PITA, I have only ever weighed this much when I was 9 months pg.

My hcp did have a hormone panel run too, but I don't have those back yet b/c they were sent out to another clinic. I don't know whether to hope for something in that that explains the symptoms or to keep digging in the thyroid stuff.

I have started on my vitamins again, I wasn't taking them very often b/c I couldn't take them in the am with the levothyroxine. My vits (shaklee) have a good level of selenium and iodine and Vitamin D, so I am hoping a few weeks of this will help? if it doesn't, i guess I will ask for a more complete thyroid panel and maybe a switch to another rx?

[JaneS]

Nadia and everyone,

After extensive reading for past several months, I think these are completely unsufficient tests.... and in fact most thyroid tests are not always helpful b/c they do not tell the whole story of whether the thyroid hormone is actually being used by the cells of the body.

TSH can be artificially kept low by the cellular communication not responding properly. Meaning, if the cells are not continually accepting thyroid hormone and transmitting to the pituitary that the TSH should be raised... the TSH will be low and a mainstream doctor will tell you how great it is when really there is a problem.

And T4 is not the active thyroid hormone, it's only the storage version. There could also be problems converting the T4 to the active form: T3.

Mainstream thyroid views of the modern tests being a true judge of thyroid function leave out a lot of people with frank thyroid symptoms. Also treating with T4 only *will* bring down your TSH ... but studies reveal don't improve symptoms! Many functional medicine/alternative doctors focus on basal body temps, metabolism and physical examination/symptoms to reveal if the thyroid hormone is not working correctly in the body.

See these books, they are the best of the stacks on the thyroid that I've read recently:

"Solved: The Riddle of Illness" by Stephen Langer, MD
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/007...SIN=0071470573

"Hypothyroidism Type 2: The Epidemic" by Mark Starr, MD
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/097...SIN=0975262408

"Why Do I Still Have Thyroid Symptoms When My Lab Tests Are Normal? A Revolutionary Breakthrough In Understanding Hashimoto's Disease and Hypothyroidism" by Datis Kharrazian, DC
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/160...SIN=1600376703

[JaneS]

Also, rx? Are you taking Synthroid, sorry I can't go back and check thread, DS is waiting...

And selenium should be at least 200mcg of the active form: methylselenocysteine or the other active form I cannot remember right now.

Vitamin D is rarely adequate in multi's. You should get your levels tested and have it be in the high normal range. Just in normal low range is not always going to boost your immune system. I needed to do 10,000 IU per day for several months to get my blood levels up and now take 4,000 IU per day b/c I live in a northern state. I skip on beach days in summer.

Also adrenals should be looked at. That is my next intensive research project as adrenals effect the thyroid and vice versa.

[nadia105]

Thank you for the replies! I will see if I can get the T3 tested and addressed.

As for the vitamins, I should probably add more D, b/c I have been horribly deficient the past few years.

Another thing to add into the equation: a bfp today. Any innof on how this will change any meds., vitamins, etc is welcome!

I'm currently on 50mcg of Levothyroxine. I have heard that synthroid is much more consistent in it's levels of the drug in each batch, has anyone else heard that?

[Cascadian]

Hi Nadia - yes, i've heard that one of the reasons docs love Synthroid is because of the consistency, vs Armour.

I just wanted to update: I think it's been about a month that I started T3/T4 combo and still feel 1000% better than I did for the 7 years I was only on T4. So much more 'get up and go' as well as sustained energy. I realized that part of my computer addiction in the past was because I simply could not muster the energy to DO anything. This is changing my life.

In a week I experiment with no T4, and increasing T3.

A month after that I experiment with Armour aka Thyroid in Canada.

[Adamsmama]

When I first got pregnant dr. told me automatically (if I got a BFP or missed a period) to add 2 more pills to my week (I'm on levothyroxine as well). Then when I called and told him that I was pg he increased my dose even more. I felt GREAT during the first trimester. At 8 weeks my TSH was 1.4 which is the best it has ever been. Around 16 weeks I started having low-thyroid symptoms. At 18 weeks I got it tested and it was only up to 2.2 but I was told that even just being over 2 can generate problems. Anyway, that is what happened with me.

[LiLStar]

Feeling a little bit overwhelmed Its recently hit my radar that having my thyroid checked might be prudent. And from what i've seen, its not entirely...simple. All the complicatedness of making sure to test for all the necessary things, and many drs not knowing enough to do so. And from the links I've checked out (from this thread) its such a hugely complicated topic. And honestly..not that INTERESTING to me. So symptoms, yeah, I want them gone, but I don't want to have to become an expert on the topic to make that happen! I googled "thyroid" and my city and found a nurse practitioner who lists thyroid problems on her list of services, and from the little blurb in that section..she seems like she knows what she's doing. I get a pretty good impression from the website at least. I have an appt for monday.

Anyway.. I have depression (and all that entails with the mood swings and rages and irritability) that the SSRIs weren't touching, zero sex drive, (whether I'm on SSRIs or not) random aches in my leg muscles/knees, usually at night. intense sweets craving. There are frequent days that I eat more sweets than "regular food" I'm NOT gaining weight. I gained 65+ lbs both pregnancies, but easily returned to pre pregnancy weight both times. (115-120ish) Getting up in the morning is hell. I want to pummel anyone who wakes me. I never wake feeling refreshed, and left to my own devices would sleep till noon every day. plus a couple weird, isolated incidences that I suspect are related. One was yesterday, I just felt so nauseated all day for no apparent reason, no other symptoms. Just like morning sickness, except not pregnant. It came in waves, either mildly sick feeling, or holding back the urge to puke. The other time was about 3 weeks pp. I had traveled across country (yeah, 3 weeks pp..!) and like 2 days after arriving, I got plenty of sleep that night, then a couple hours after waking, took a long nap. Then got up, had a snack, watched a little bit of tv.. took another nice long nap. Got up long enough to go out to dinner with the ILs, then went right back to bed and slept for 12 hours. I literally slept as much as my newborn! The next day I was normal. At the time, I had no idea what my problem was, but now in hindsight I'm wondering if that was thyroid related.

Anyway.. does that sound like thyroid related? And I would looove to hear any stories of anyone who had "PPD" and didn't respond to antidepressants and then thyroid medication fixed?

[lil_miss_understood]

Hey LilStar.
I can't say that I had PPD helped by medication but it doesn't sound plausible to me that your thyroid is underactive. However, I feel it necessary to ask.. Have you considered adrenal fatigue? With the birth of River and a move across the country, you must have had a lot of stress in the last year. Perhaps you could try adding a good B-complex, some vitamin C and magnesium and, if that doesn't help, an adrenal extract (adrenal glandular).
I hope that you find the answers you're seeking.
M is doing well over here- I seem to have lost the other May mamas.

[OdinsMommy0409]

Hi all,
New to this thread! I've had a Hashimoto's diagnosis since 2001, but I've had normal lab values since 2003 with no symptoms. Well, I just retested for Hashimoto's hpothyroid as well as some preliminary blood work (can't afford the saliva test right now) for adrenal fatigue and vitamin deficiencies.

My labs are as follows:
Thyroid antibodies
TPO - 418 (range 0-60). !!!!
Thryoglobulin - 128 (range 0-60)
T3 - 82.2 (range 80-204)

Ferritin - 28 (range 10-291)
Iron - 91 (range 42-145)

B12 - 485 (range 211-911)
D - 15 (range 30-89) !!!

I've started B-complex, Excellent multivitamin, D3 drops (5000 iu), and vitamin c. I'll be more diligent about digestive enzymes to aid in gluten metabolism, et.al. Fortunately, I know the quality of all my supplements are very high (buy them through my son's DAN! doctor who is also treating me). I haven't started any thyroid medication yet as I just received the results.

Any recommendations from those more experienced?

I have so many symptoms of adrenal fatigue, and it's been virtually impossible to lose any baby weight, mainly b/c of the adrenal fatigue being fed by the sugar monster

[lil_miss_understood]

LilStar,
I mispoke last night. I meant to write that it doesn't sound IMplausible to me that you have a thyroid problem.

Originally Posted by OdinsMommy0409

Hi all,
New to this thread! I've had a Hashimoto's diagnosis since 2001, but I've had normal lab values since 2003 with no symptoms. Well, I just retested for Hashimoto's hpothyroid as well as some preliminary blood work (can't afford the saliva test right now) for adrenal fatigue and vitamin deficiencies.

My labs are as follows:
Thyroid antibodies
TPO - 418 (range 0-60). !!!!
Thryoglobulin - 128 (range 0-60)
T3 - 82.2 (range 80-204)

Ferritin - 28 (range 10-291)
Iron - 91 (range 42-145)

B12 - 485 (range 211-911)
D - 15 (range 30-89) !!!

I've started B-complex, Excellent multivitamin, D3 drops (5000 iu), and vitamin c. I'll be more diligent about digestive enzymes to aid in gluten metabolism, et.al. Fortunately, I know the quality of all my supplements are very high (buy them through my son's DAN! doctor who is also treating me). I haven't started any thyroid medication yet as I just received the results.

Any recommendations from those more experienced?

I have so many symptoms of adrenal fatigue, and it's been virtually impossible to lose any baby weight, mainly b/c of the adrenal fatigue being fed by the sugar monster

Okay, that ferritin is WAY TOO LOW (and the blood iron's not too hot either). Iron is used by the thyroid to make T4 and if you don't have enough of it (iron), there is no way for you to have enough thyroid hormone. I don't know how to increase ferritin though besides iron supps and don't have recommendations for them.
In addition to the B Complex, I would consider a sublingual B-12.
I would also recommend selenium as it's been shown to reduce antibodies.

[OdinsMommy0409]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

Okay, that ferritin is WAY TOO LOW (and the blood iron's not too hot either). Iron is used by the thyroid to make T4 and if you don't have enough of it (iron), there is no way for you to have enough thyroid hormone. I don't know how to increase ferritin though besides iron supps and don't have recommendations for them.
In addition to the B Complex, I would consider a sublingual B-12.
I would also recommend selenium as it's been shown to reduce antibodies.

I was thinking the same thing regarding my ferritin levels. I'll start taking the Floradix Iron & Herbs my 15 month old takes to see if I can get my stores back up.

Do you have any recommendations for a sublingual B12? And selenium supplement? I'm sure my doctor would have them, but he's 3 hours away so I'd rather find my options nearby.

Thank you so much for your help.