The Thyroid Thread (Part II) - Page 38

[JaneS]

Oh and once your blood B12 is low you are seriously low, I like Jarrow methyl B12 sublingual.

[Anastasiya]

Joining this thread...I don't think I ever knew it existed till now!

I've been hypo for almost twenty years now after having had Grave's disease. Got the RAI treatment and went on Synthroid. I never felt good on Synthroid, though...always felt like I was less of myself, and started gaining weight, etc. Eventually I moved, found an endo and he put me on Armour, which was noticeably better.

Due to my own stupidity, I didn't keep up with my appointments as I should have, and just recently found out my TSH levels were 38.8, at 7 weeks pregnant!!! That explained the deathly exhaustion I had, the copious amounts of hair I was losing, the depression, etc. Why I didn't attribute it all to my thyroid, I don't know. I mean, I've had this problem long enough to know what the symptoms mean...

What I don't understand is why my TSH was so high since before getting pregnant, I'd lost almost 40 pounds. ???

Anyway, at my last check the TSH level was at 17, and I'm due back in today for more bloodwork.

I am overwhelmingly exhausted, though. The littlest things poop me out. I'm ready for a nap after doing something as simple as washing dishes or doing a load of laundry!

I've been reading in this thread about supplements like selenium and b12.... can anyone give more info on that? And what about iodine? Does Celtic sea salt (the real stuff) contain iodine?

[JaneS]

Anastasiya,
In this thread and the first thyroid thread, nutrients are discussed that effect thyroid function.
However, since you probably have little thyroid gland left, if you have any symptoms, it seems like first you should be taking more hormone until they go away. This is especially important while pg.
Celtic sea salt contains very little iodine, it shouldnt be your own source.

[Cascadian]

Update again:

Hi everyone - this is month 3, and I've started my 3rd experimental regimen.

Month 2 - I was on Cytomel only - felt excellent, and had a superb amount of energy.

I just took my first Armour pill an hour ago (I actually forgot to splice it in half and take half at night and day...might get a little hyper tonight :P ) I don't know what to expect as this is a totally different beast...

Anyone here prefer Armour? What's your experience with it?

[aliah79]

Nice to find a thread for thyroid issues!

I was diagnosed with hypo twenty years ago and my meds were regularly adjusted. I switched to Armour about five years ago because my T3 numbers were low.

I was on 3 grains, but my numbers were off, so my doctor upped my dose to 5 grains. Which I started about 9 weeks ago. I am also about 9 weeks pregnant, and my OB panels showed that my TSH was .01... my OB put me back on 3 grains yesterday, but now I'm worried about being hypo again. I'm so nervous this time about my thyroid levels and the baby. It was a surprise, a welcome one, but I would have liked to have gotten my thyroid straightened out first!

[Anastasiya]

Originally Posted by aliah79

Nice to find a thread for thyroid issues!

I was diagnosed with hypo twenty years ago and my meds were regularly adjusted. I switched to Armour about five years ago because my T3 numbers were low.

I was on 3 grains, but my numbers were off, so my doctor upped my dose to 5 grains. Which I started about 9 weeks ago. I am also about 9 weeks pregnant, and my OB panels showed that my TSH was .01... my OB put me back on 3 grains yesterday, but now I'm worried about being hypo again. I'm so nervous this time about my thyroid levels and the baby. It was a surprise, a welcome one, but I would have liked to have gotten my thyroid straightened out first!

I'm worried right along with you, but my numbers are crazy. My doctor said I shouldn't have even been able to conceive.

I'm on 3 grains of Armour right now, but I suspect they'll be upping it again. My last results were 17 TSH.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by aliah79

Nice to find a thread for thyroid issues!

I was diagnosed with hypo twenty years ago and my meds were regularly adjusted. I switched to Armour about five years ago because my T3 numbers were low.

I was on 3 grains, but my numbers were off, so my doctor upped my dose to 5 grains. Which I started about 9 weeks ago. I am also about 9 weeks pregnant, and my OB panels showed that my TSH was .01... my OB put me back on 3 grains yesterday, but now I'm worried about being hypo again. I'm so nervous this time about my thyroid levels and the baby. It was a surprise, a welcome one, but I would have liked to have gotten my thyroid straightened out first!

Why in the world would you drop it by an entire 2 grains? Why not try 1 grain or even 1/2 grain?

[aliah79]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

Why in the world would you drop it by an entire 2 grains? Why not try 1 grain or even 1/2 grain?

I don't know, but I don't think my GP should have increased it by 2 grains right away either. I probably would have felt more comfortable with going to 4 grains, either time and retesting. I am debating on whether to go ahead with 4 now, knowing that I was hypo at 3, and that I usually need it upped during pregnancy.

[aliah79]

Originally Posted by Anastasiya

I'm worried right along with you, but my numbers are crazy. My doctor said I shouldn't have even been able to conceive.

I'm on 3 grains of Armour right now, but I suspect they'll be upping it again. My last results were 17 TSH.

Crossing my fingers for you! That is quite up there...hope they get it figured out soon!

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by aliah79

I don't know, but I don't think my GP should have increased it by 2 grains right away either. I probably would have felt more comfortable with going to 4 grains, either time and retesting. I am debating on whether to go ahead with 4 now, knowing that I was hypo at 3, and that I usually need it upped during pregnancy.

Oh, I don't think that was the smartest move on the block either, no, so we're in total agreement there. However, I have learned the hard way (and you probably have too) that you often have to fight with doctors in order to get them to be reasonable on this matter. And, when you're pregnant, this is not just effecting you but also your child. It is dangerous to your unborn child to be hypo while pregnant.
Personally, I would probably do 4 and phone my practitioner to let him/her know that was what I was doing and why (hypo at 3, now pregnant so 2 reasons to increase).

[Anastasiya]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

It is dangerous to your unborn child to be hypo while pregnant

Any info on this? From what I've read, it's more dangerous to be hyper while pregnant than it is to be hypo.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by Anastasiya

Any info on this? From what I've read, it's more dangerous to be hyper while pregnant than it is to be hypo.

From this site:

You are your baby's only source of source of thyroid hormones at this point - your baby's thyroid gland isn't fully functional until after 12 weeks of pregnancy. If you don't have sufficient thyroid hormones, you are at an increased risk of miscarriage, and your baby is at increased risk of developmental problems.

Additionally:

Normal TSH, but low Free T4 (FT4), can be problematic during pregnancy. According to research presented at the June 2000 Endocrine Society conference ("Maternal Thyroid Function During Early Pregnancy and Neurodevelopment of the Offspring," June 21, 2000, Clinical Symposium: Impact of Maternal Thyroid Function on the Fetus and Neonate) there is increasing evidence that even normal FT4 levels that fall into the lowest tenth percentile during the early stages of pregnancy can be associated with poor infant development.

From what I've read, the best outcomes are found for babies whose (hypo) mothers had optimized their TSH to <1 pre-pregnancy and kept it <2 for their pregnancy.
And, having watched my sister suffer loss after loss due to Graves', I won't argue as to which is more dangerous. They are BOTH dangerous and should both be avoided.

[aliah79]

Originally Posted by Anastasiya

Any info on this? From what I've read, it's more dangerous to be hyper while pregnant than it is to be hypo.

It's dangerous either way. Threat of miscarriage both ways... I'm only 9 weeks, so that's one of my biggest worries. With hypo (untreated) baby is more likely to have abnormalities, lower IQ or learning disabilities....

[Anastasiya]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

I won't argue as to which is more dangerous. They are BOTH dangerous and should both be avoided.

I'm not intending to start an argument, but I think I'd be more wary of upping my meds without doctor's input than keeping things as they are until I can see him, if I were the pp. She could be sending herself back into hyper mode.

Sorry about your sister's losses.

I am a bit panicked myself, if you've read my earlier posts. My TSH was far out of range early on, and likely still is.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by Anastasiya

I'm not intending to start an argument, but I think I'd be more wary of upping my meds without doctor's input than keeping things as they are until I can see him, if I were the pp. She could be sending herself back into hyper mode.

Sorry about your sister's losses.

I am a bit panicked myself, if you've read my earlier posts. My TSH was far out of range early on, and likely still is.

You're entitled to your opinion. However, I was forced to do just that during my last pregnancy so I have a different perspective. Obviously, the dose she was at *before pregnancy* wasn't high enough to keep even just herself from being hypo. Apparently the crazy high increase in meds was too much for both her and the baby. I don't think that going back to the dose that was keeping her hypo previous to her increased thyroid needs (because of pregnancy) is wise.

I had read your previous posts but I just went back to re-read them. I can understand your concerns. I was being kept barely in range prior to pregnancy (my PCP at the time basically told me that my asking for an increase in thyroid meds was like a body builder asking for steroids). My TSH wasn't as high as yours when I found out I was pregnant (it was about 10ish) and my son is wonderful, but I cannot, in good conscience, say that it's "okay" to be hypo while pregnant when I know that it is not. I'm sorry that you are struggling with getting your levels to an appropriate place but I cannot sugar coat this information particularly when I see what I consider to be a potentially dangerous medication change being made by a doctor.

[Adamsmama]

What would you say, if your TSH was 1.4 during the 1st trimester (after doc. raised meds) ... and then 2nd trimester was 2.22 and now in the 3rd it is 2.96. I felt absolutely the best (energy wise) I ever have during the 1st trimester ... by week 16 I started to get tired out and then they raised my meds around week 22 ... now at 29 weeks I feel so exhausted and moody. I just don't want to do anything ... I can't think straight ... and I'm sleeping in late every day (thankfully my kids are letting me do this!). My drs. both OB and endo don't think it is a big deal. Is it? I really want my levels below a 2.

[aliah79]

I'm going to talk to my doctor today about it. But I do feel that staying on 3 will put me back into hypo. I don't want to be either, so the compromise would be 4. I've been dealing with this for twenty years, so I kind of have a handle on how things work. My dose has always been upped during pregnancy as well, so that's coming in a couple of weeks, too. I appreciate all the advice It's amazing how many woman have thyroid issues...I know mine was hereditary - my cousin and I are the spitting image of our grandmother. Some days I just feel like it's not fair.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by aliah79

I was on 3 grains, but my numbers were off, so my doctor upped my dose to 5 grains. Which I started about 9 weeks ago. I am also about 9 weeks pregnant, and my OB panels showed that my TSH was .01... my OB put me back on 3 grains yesterday, but now I'm worried about being hypo again. I'm so nervous this time about my thyroid levels and the baby. It was a surprise, a welcome one, but I would have liked to have gotten my thyroid straightened out first!

I'm confused. Isn't your TSH supposed to be suppressed if you are treated optimally with exogenous thyroid hormone?

My understanding is that a low TSH like this *if you are being treated* does not signify hyperthyroidism but the fact that your body is actually getting enough thyroid hormone so the pituitary is not being stimulated to produce more.

If you have a low TSH of .01 and *are not being treated* then you are hyperthyroid.

Did you have hyper symptoms? If not, you were not hyper and a functional medicine doctor would have kept you on the dose that eliminated all your symptoms. Reducing it because of labs doesn't make sense if you didn't have the sx to back it up.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by Adamsmama

What would you say, if your TSH was 1.4 during the 1st trimester (after doc. raised meds) ... and then 2nd trimester was 2.22 and now in the 3rd it is 2.96. I felt absolutely the best (energy wise) I ever have during the 1st trimester ... by week 16 I started to get tired out and then they raised my meds around week 22 ... now at 29 weeks I feel so exhausted and moody. I just don't want to do anything ... I can't think straight ... and I'm sleeping in late every day (thankfully my kids are letting me do this!). My drs. both OB and endo don't think it is a big deal. Is it? I really want my levels below a 2.

You might want to read and print out that page which I just posted. Have you had your FT4 levels tested? TSH really doesn't tell you a whole lot.

And yes, JaneS, it IS supposed to be suppressed, particularly when dealing with autoimmune hypoT, but most doctors don't give a flying farfanugan and just want to make sure the "numbers" are right and you can go beat the ground for all they care. Since "the numbers" say that a TSH of <0.4 = hyperT, that is what they treat it as, regardless of what the truth is. Hence comments from, and opinions of, doctors to, and about, people asking for thyroid med increases being "drug seeking" ("like body builders asking for steroids").

eta: That is not to say that a TSH of 0.1 is the "right" number for EVERYone, just that it *could* be the right "number" for some people, but the only real way to know that is: FT4, FT3 and SYMPTOMS. TSH is basically only useful for the diagnosis of hypo (and even then is flawed and depended upon too much).

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

And yes, JaneS, it IS supposed to be suppressed, particularly when dealing with autoimmune hypoT, but most doctors don't give a flying farfanugan and just want to make sure the "numbers" are right and you can go beat the ground for all they care. Since "the numbers" say that a TSH of <0.4 = hyperT, that is what they treat it as, regardless of what the truth is. Hence comments from, and opinions of, doctors to, and about, people asking for thyroid med increases being "drug seeking" ("like body builders asking for steroids").

eta: That is not to say that a TSH of 0.1 is the "right" number for EVERYone, just that it *could* be the right "number" for some people, but the only real way to know that is: FT4, FT3 and SYMPTOMS.

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

TSH is basically only useful for the diagnosis of hypo (and even then is flawed and depended upon too much).

And only if it's high.

If it's low, it still doesn't mean your thyroid function is okay due to potential thyroid resistance or impaired conversion of T4 to T3 (as I sit here with FREEZING cold feet, fully dressed in two layers, in a 74 degree room).