Let's talk homework.

[guest^]

Okay, having hsed for six yrs, and now sending my DC to school next week,I have some concerns and questions.( FYI-DD is almost 12 ,going into 6th grade. DS is 7,goin into 1st grade.)

There seems to be some general rules about *how much* a DC should have as per their grade level. Got that.

But...when do you have them do it? At the school? Right when they get home? After dinner?

How much help do you give? A little? A lot? None at all?

Do you ask them if they have homework? Do you allow them to do things-on the weekend for example-w/o finishing their homework ,first?

Anything I am forgetting, other newbies-PLEASE-chime in !

( I was just told by a friend of mine, whose DS is going into the 10th grade, and is in the IBS program, that she totally helps him with his big projects!!) Yikes! This DC had to APPLY and QUALIFY to get into the program-and his momma is helping him. That seems just not right imo.

TIA!

mp

[Mallori]

My ds's (2nd and 5th) are going to a new school this fall. We've talked to the principal about this, and they will have some time at school to do "homework", but will probably not finish it all. So this will be a nice exercise in time management for them, to use the time given for finishing studies and lighten their load at home.

For what's left, I usually have them do it right when they get home from school. The general schedule is they come home by 3:15, have snack and homework while I get to work on dinner. It's usually been wrapped up by 4:00, providing there are no special projects going on, except for reading. Last year the teacher implemented a mandatory 20 min reading time a day, which has been wonderful. They almost always go over that amount, and I let them put that off for after dinner. We don't have cable and there isn't much on tv, so the kids have become big readers like me and dh.

As far as helping them, I do. My 5th grader doesn't need it so much anymore, but there is the occasion. My 2nd grader and I will go over things like math facts with flash cards, etc. I do like to check their work, regardless of whether they needed help or not. If I find one that's incorrect, I'll tell them that there is one wrong, but not which one. There's a lot of homework in the younger ages that require help, such as the flash cards, spelling words and reading aloud for accuracy and pronounciation.

Weekends, well, our rule is that all homework must be completed by Saturday night. Almost always, it's done friday night. It's so much easier to enjoy the weekend without homework hanging over us, so we like to get it done and out of the way. Plus, our main goal where homework is concerned is to avoid the last minute hustles.

As far as your friend, at that age, any help I gave would probably be minimal, but i'd have to know more about the situation.
HTH

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

I have an almost 9 YO DS entering 3rd grade and a 5 YO entering K. Having been through this already, I know that having her get started with homework will be tough, but its part of this school.

We experimented a lot with timing. It probably depends a little on your kid and your life. For us, the kids get out of school at 3:30 and then have 1/2 hr. car ride home. By that point, they need a snack (or in the car), and some play time. About 1/2 the time they have sports classes also. So we settled into a routine where DS started homework about 5:30, finishing it by 6:30 when we put dinner on the table. (DH and I get home around 6). I would like it to be earlier, honestly, but it doesn't seem to work.

As for help, it depends a lot on kid, routine, and subject. For "ordinary" homework, we had to encourage getting started, but didn't do any actual work. We do check and have them redo things that are incorrect. For writing sentences for spelling, this was a nightmare in 1st grade and we coached that a lot. Obviously we participate in oral reading assignments and giving spelling words for practice tests. Beyond that, I only help if asked and then I try to coach ideas as much as possible.

For big projects, I help with the research on the computer because I don't want him surfing unsupervised. He helps find info, chooses photos for printing, designs project board, writes / types things, and that sort of stuff. We do coach time management a lot. We tend to tackle projects on weekends because he doesn't have other homework and we (parents) have more time to help and it doesn't get in the way of bedtime.

[mamatoady]

is this an open conversation???

I hate homework--everything that has to do with homework. I hated it in school, before kids, and now that I have kids and one will start school...well, I still hate it.

I personally think the only homework a child should have in to read every day for a certain amount of time.

with that said...my child gets out of school at 3:50 and will be home about 4. Bedtime will begin at 8:00 (bath and all that)...So, my child has 4 hours to destress, spend time with family, visit with friends, do extracurriculars when needbe, eat dinner, get some real exercise (10 minutes of recess at school is NOT enough)...and they want to cram an hour of homework into that mix?

I guess my question is...are there any mama's who don't put a priority on homework and if the child doesn't get to it, not make it a big deal? I'm really a homeschooling mama at heart, but since I am sending dd to school, I guess I've gotta work with the system.....or do I?

sarah

[UptownZoo]

OK, here's the battle I'm getting ready to fight this week: we don't do homework with our kids when they're young. I mean, we don't allow homework for them. I think it's inappropriate for children in K-3 to have assigned homework. This does not always go over well with the school and teachers. We moved this year, so none of my youngest ds's teachers know our family at all. We read to him, let him help in the kitchen and garden, and in general feel that he has no business sitting down at the table to do things with paper and pencils unless he chooses to do that (which he actually does quite a bit). He gets plenty of time at the table at school.

I guess my question is...are there any mama's who don't put a priority on homework and if the child doesn't get to it, not make it a big deal? I'm really a homeschooling mama at heart, but since I am sending dd to school, I guess I've gotta work with the system.....or do I?

I think it's absolutely ridiculous to give young children homework (with a few exceptions, but the nightly assignments are wrong IMO) or to give any child homework that they can't do w/o massive parental involvement. If I need to answer a few questions, that's fine, but I passed second grade and don't need to do it again! I'm the parent. I'm 100% responsible for my kids' social, emotional, spiritual, medical, dental, and other physical needs. I choose to let the school be responsible for academic needs. I have a role in that, but I'm not a teacher. I resent this notion in public schools now that I'll sit at the table for an hour every evening supervising cut and paste projects. I mean, even if I didn't mind (which I do), I have four children! How would I ever fit it all in?

For my older kids (6th, 7th, and 8th grade), we're very hands off. Our kids know we're there to help if they need it, but we don't sit over them. We don't make them do homework right away when they come home. I think they need some time outside and by November, there will only be an hour or so of daylight left by the time they come home. And they really need a chance to hang out with friends, read for pleasure, and wind down. They do, however, have to finish all homework before watching any TV or playing their Wii. Generally, after dinner is done and the kitchen is clean, they all go to their rooms or the dining room table to get their work done. DH and I pack lunches, read with youngest DS or give him a bath, and by the time our youngest is in bed, the big kids are done with their homework and we all watch some TV or hang out for an hour.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

May I respectfully suggest that the OP asked for advise on how to manage homework, not a debate on homework itself? I think this i starting to get off topic and I hope the OP doesn't mind.

That said, I will say that I am generally neutral to pro-homework. But even if you are anti, I am very uncomfortable with teaching a child that he or she doesn't have to do what the "rules" say just because either child or parent don't like it. Fight the system in general for a change in homework policy -- sure, if that's your thing. Leave it up the child but have them accept the consequences? Maybe. But have just your child abstain and expect there not to be classroom/school consequences? Completely wrong for everyone involved, IMHO.

[mommy68]

ohhhh..you'll realize what you need to do after It may take some time to get in to a good routine.

When my oldest was in 6th grade the homework got bad all of a sudden. He would have tons of homework, reading assignments, projects due in various classes around the same times and he had to do 7 classes per day which meant getting used to having to go from class to class. He was a basket case for the first half of the year and we argued all the time because he was constantly forgetting to do homework, forgetting to bring books home each evening for his homework, and would forget to tell me when projects were due. We did several projects the night before they were due because he would forget to tell me about them. : I also let him go in to school late one time so we could finish a project that morning.

What finally worked for us (sometimes) was making a list of what he needed to accomplish each day and posting it on his bedroom door. I got tired of him forgetting books at home each morning or forgetting books at school in the afternoons and forgetting homework that was due, etc. So the list really helped. I also asked him a lot "do you have homework today" when I would pick him up at school so he could run back inside if he forget something. I also would ask him each morning "do you need to take anything with you today" stuff like that. I felt repetitive having to do this day after day but I had to do it. He was 11/12 years old at that time and it helped him to remember. It was very tough for him going from elementary level to middle school level so I think the list helped.

As far as homework, I made my oldest do his as soon as he got home each day. Sometimes he even took the initiative to do it on the way home in the car to get it out of the way. He also had study hall at school so he got a lot accomplished there.

I'd expect the first month or so (maybe even longer) to be tough on them, especially your older children until they can get in to to a good rhythm and daily routine. Just stay on top of them. They will get irked I'm sure but it will help them.

[mamatoady]

The topic of the thread was "let's talk homework" and I asked if this was meant to be an open conversation thread about homework. If it wasn't, then I appologize, but I had this question about it for a while now and thought this was going to be a general conversation about homework.

So, OP--I appologize if I needed a new thread for my homework question.

with that said I think all parents pick and choose to some degree what they will and won't let their children comply with re:school policies. Some have their kids taken out of programs that every other kid in school participates in, generally (like sex ed), or some put them in school part time (and homeschool part-time) some refuse to let the teacher keep their child in for recess to finish up work (which I believe no child should be kept from recess unless sick or soemthing).....so...I had heard of people not forcing their kids into homework and questioned it--looks like some other people are of the same philosophy. I was a slave to the school system once, but now as an adult, I do maintain my freedoms.

sarah

[mamatoady]

Originally Posted by mamapoppins

Okay, having hsed for six yrs, and now sending my DC to school next week,I have some concerns and questions.( FYI-DD is almost 12 ,going into 6th grade. DS is 7,goin into 1st grade.)

There seems to be some general rules about *how much* a DC should have as per their grade level. Got that.

But...when do you have them do it? At the school? Right when they get home? After dinner?

How much help do you give? A little? A lot? None at all?

Do you ask them if they have homework? Do you allow them to do things-on the weekend for example-w/o finishing their homework ,first?

Anything I am forgetting, other newbies-PLEASE-chime in !

( I was just told by a friend of mine, whose DS is going into the 10th grade, and is in the IBS program, that she totally helps him with his big projects!!) Yikes! This DC had to APPLY and QUALIFY to get into the program-and his momma is helping him. That seems just not right imo.

TIA!

mp

whoever said something about not cramming for homework is right on the money. I think I conditioned myself to "cram homework" in gradeschool and it followed me through college. My mother was very "hands off" in that we could ask questions if we needed, but she didn't really ask if we had it or how much or if we finished it. So, I always left it until the last minute. By the time I got to it, it would be 8:30 at night (this high school, as I remember) and then I was too tired to think and would do a crappy job(many times not even finishing) and then would do some right before class or copy. It was a habit I never should have gotten into.

In at least the upper grades, I think it's important to have a schedule for homework....like starting homework an hour before dinner (or whatever you wish, but to make sure it's not too late and there's some more downtime before bed.

I also think in some cases, it's crucially important for the parent to help a lot with homework--it depends on the child. The teacher has a ton of kids and can't--simply can't give your child the one-on-one he might need. Maybe he doesn't need it and that's great, but some do.

Some kids have a hard time paying attention or learning in the way the teacher presents information and having that one-on-one to reexplain can make all the difference. I think there's something to be said for checking to see for completion and quality. Quality more than completion.

Sarah

[LauraLoo]

Like a pp said, it really depends on the child, the type of homework (amount) and your family's schedule.

My personal opinion is that a 6th grader and a 12th grader need to determine what works best for them. By 4th grade, I was responsible for doing my nightly homework. My parents never routinely checked it, never asked if I had any homework, and it was never a problem. If I had a question about something, they were always available.

Your first grader will most likely need a little assistance getting into a routine, and it's likely that you will need to assist him with some of it. This doesn't mean that you are going to have to do it for him, but help him figure out what the directions are asking for and making sure that he is able to complete it. IME, it's better to complete it before it's later in the evening, but that could totally depend on the child. When I was in middle school and beyond, I did a lot of homework right after dinner (which was later - around 7:30 or 8) until I was ready to go to bed.

[newclementine]

As a teacher, my advice would be to organize your evenings so that the homework is completed before dinner. Part of the point of homework is to teach time management skills and responsibility when working on independent work, so if the kids leave homework until the end of the night (after dinner, TV etc) this isn't really happening, instead you wind up teaching procrastination skills and get a lot of unhappy kids and parents--and a lot of work that is done improperly, causing a headache for the child in school the next day. The most successful and happy kid I had last year did his homework directly after school and then was free for the rest of the evening with nothing hanging over his head. If somehow you can make homework a typical routine and not a chore and a headache (ie: if you project a positive "can do" attitude about the hw to your kid) the kid won't be so miserable doing it. This turns into an imprint, and then when they get older and the homework load increases they won't experience stress and anxiety when assigned big load of hw in middle school and high school.

Also, this is specific I know, but if the child is given reading to do don't let them do that before bed either. I know that as adults we read before bed, but assigned school work (even if it's a novel) really shouldn't be read before bed, this is not the optimal time to take information in.

I know there are probably a lot of teachers who assign too much homework, or a lot of kids who just don't work fast enough to get the work done in school during those few moments at the end of the day allotted to it, (there is a lot of busy work out there too, which is bs if you ask me....) but homework really is a good thing if the work is about reinforcing and processing skills learned in school. And sometimes bigger projects are, in part, about involving the parents. You may be connected to what your kid is doing and find this unnecesary but that doesn't mean that every parent takes time to check in with their kids.

I also had a student last year who's parents gave her an hour of homework time in the morning instead of in the evenings (they obviously were a family who woke up early--Dad was a businessman and woke up at the crack of dawn anyway, so the whole family just got up then). This was great for my student, who was able to efficiently complete her work while she was fresh (she was also awake when she got to school because she had not just got up 20 minutes before the bell rang )

[mamatoady]

It seems as though many people through their posts talk of homework taking about an hour. Is that feasible? Is that what it's supposed to take? Part of the reason that I procrastinated in school doing homework is that I'd have well over an hour of homework. More like two hours and typically if I had actually completed EVERYTHING I was supposed to do it would have been closer to 3. This was in high school for sure and I gave up. I'd do about 45 minutes and be exhausted and say "screw it".

At what point is it just too much? For a child in junior or high school, you can't exactly go to every single teacher and say "hey, you guys need to collaborate here, because my kid is doing homework for 2 hours every night."

sarah

[LookMommy!]

Homework time here is 7:30 - 8:30 after dinner for ds12 and dd7. DD14 does what she wants when she wants, but mostly does her work at school so she doesn't have to lug books home. She gets pretty bad grades (just finished 8th), but I home/unschooled her from age 9-12, and now she wants nothing to do with me, homework wise.

After school ds12 doesn't even want to think about school for several hours and we are busy with activities and playdates. He has PDD and organizational problems, so we need to support him a lot in the homework process, beacuse he still does not take ownership for it. (He homeschooled age 7-10, so we didn't have to struggle back then, thank goodness). Homework is usually done at the table, along with a reasonably healthy dessert. If it takes more than an hour, he will fall apart, and if it takes less than an hour, he'll clean out his bag and pencil case or whatever, or use the time to practice bar-mitzvah lessons or piano or whatever. Shower is at 8:30, then bedtime.

DD7 loves homework, but I don't encourage it (she spends plenty of time sitting at school) and she doesn't need to do it since she catches on to new skills very quickly. Her 1st grade teacher didn't seem to notice that she didn't always do it (when she did do it, she worked several pages ahead). Sometimes I tell her to do it just to keep her out of ds's hair while he works. Sometimes I make up alternative homework for her (she loves it) and sometimes I just don't get around to parenting her because ds is so demanding.

My kids go to school 6 days a week, and I resent when they get homework over the weekend, since it has to be done Friday afternoon before Shabbat (no way) or Sat nite after dark (no way).

We don't allow screen time when it is dark (bad for sleep habits, imo, although I do it myself!) so after dinner is family time/quiet time.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Originally Posted by mamatoady

It seems as though many people through their posts talk of homework taking about an hour. Is that feasible? Is that what it's supposed to take? Part of the reason that I procrastinated in school doing homework is that I'd have well over an hour of homework. More like two hours and typically if I had actually completed EVERYTHING I was supposed to do it would have been closer to 3. This was in high school for sure and I gave up. I'd do about 45 minutes and be exhausted and say "screw it".

At what point is it just too much? For a child in junior or high school, you can't exactly go to every single teacher and say "hey, you guys need to collaborate here, because my kid is doing homework for 2 hours every night."

sarah

Again, it depends a lot on the school and the child. We haven't gotten past 2nd grade yet, so I don't know about Jr. & Sr. high. I do know that my child's homework load is supposed to be about 30-45 min./night at this point (guidelines published by the school). If he actually sits down, opens his notebook, and does the work, its usually right about that. But he can draw it out to 3 hours if he's not willing to actually do the work. That's when things get ugly. I have let him not finish, but then he has to accept the consequences of not finishing at school. At his school, its not getting team points and after a few of those his team mates get frustrated at him. Day-to-day homework isn't part of their grade until 4th grade, but projects gets graded. So far we haven't had issues with projects, just the daily stuff on occasion.

[mommy68]

Originally Posted by mamatoady

It seems as though many people through their posts talk of homework taking about an hour. Is that feasible? Is that what it's supposed to take?

I've heard in the past that it's 15 minutes per grade level. Each year they go up in a grade you add on another 15 minutes for time to be spent on homework each night. Ex. kindergarten would be 15 minutes and 1st grade would be 30 minutes. So by the time they get to 6th grade it would be 3.5 hrs.

[mamatoady]

Originally Posted by mommy68

I've heard in the past that it's 15 minutes per grade level. Each year they go up in a grade you add on another 15 minutes for time to be spent on homework each night. Ex. kindergarten would be 15 minutes and 1st grade would be 30 minutes. So by the time they get to 6th grade it would be 3.5 hrs.

Maybe it was 15 minutes per subject? so...about 1.5 hrs. for a six subject day? And considering not every teacher gives homework every day, maybe that would make about an hour of homework per night. That I could live with....anything more than that, IMO is tooooooo much.

I agree with pp who said before grade 3 there shouldn't even be homework except perhaps reading assignments....and IMO on that, it should be anything the child chooses (within the framework of--it has to be a book)

sarah

[TiredX2]

For context, my kids are almost 7 (going into 2nd grade) and 9 (going into 5th grade).

Originally Posted by mamapoppins

But...when do you have them do it? At the school? Right when they get home? After dinner?

Last year we were very lucky and both kids were on the same homework schedule. They got a packet on Friday and it was due the next Friday. They were also supposed to read daily but we didn't police that--- we just read.

DD's packet (4th grade) was generally about 2 hours of work. DS's packet (1st grade) was closer to an hour.

We generally worked on them Saturday mornings. DS would get up and run around between each page.

DD had the same teacher, so same homework expectations in 3rd grade. For DS in kinder he would get an occasional worksheet. Since he was half day we would do that in the afternoon while DD was still in school.

When DD was in 2nd grade she had the same packet but instead of being given out on a Friday, it was given out on MONDAY and still due Friday. If this happens again I will be talking to the teacher about alternative options. Each day she would come home and have about 40 minutes of homework (Monday-Thursday). It was WAY too much for a child in her first year of full time school to do on a school night, IMO.

How much help do you give? A little? A lot? None at all?

For packets, I give very little to no help on getting the answers. DS still needs significant help keeping focused, though. He goes about 3X faster if I am sitting there encouraging him then if he is by himself. DD needed that in 2nd grade, started phasing out in 3rd and was basically independent on packets in 4th grade. Both occasionally need actual help, though (what does this mean...).

For large projects I help w/organization, research (finding books, looking on the web) and typing. DD started typing parts of her own last year, but she is such a slow typer still it would take her hours to type out a several page paper and I just don't think that is time well spent.

Do you ask them if they have homework? Do you allow them to do things-on the weekend for example-w/o finishing their homework ,first?

I generally don't ask, but that is because they had the packets, so I knew they were coming Friday.

Saturday morning was for homework. If we had something else specific to do, that was fine. Generally, though, they woke up Saturday morning, relaxed and played for a while, ate breakfast and then we targeted 10am ish for homework.

Originally Posted by mamatoady

I guess my question is...are there any mama's who don't put a priority on homework and if the child doesn't get to it, not make it a big deal? I'm really a homeschooling mama at heart, but since I am sending dd to school, I guess I've gotta work with the system.....or do I?

I am totally opposed to homework at the ages we are talking about (elementary school). I have seen NO research that suggests that it is beneficial at "younger" (before junior high/high school) ages. Additionally, it doesn't even seem to help with the things it purports to help with.

That said, I do feel it is part of school enrollment *mostly*. Several times a year I will "sign off" on my childrens' work (specifcally DD's at this point) that we did not have time to do an assignment. All teachers we have had (5 total at this point) have been accepting of that.

Originally Posted by mamatoady

It seems as though many people through their posts talk of homework taking about an hour. Is that feasible? Is that what it's supposed to take? Part of the reason that I procrastinated in school doing homework is that I'd have well over an hour of homework. More like two hours and typically if I had actually completed EVERYTHING I was supposed to do it would have been closer to 3. This was in high school for sure and I gave up. I'd do about 45 minutes and be exhausted and say "screw it".

At what point is it just too much? For a child in junior or high school, you can't exactly go to every single teacher and say "hey, you guys need to collaborate here, because my kid is doing homework for 2 hours every night."

The general guidelines I have seen most often and think are reasonable is 10 minutes per grade per night (plus reading). So, a 1st grader would have 10 minutes of homework nightly, a 4th grader 40 minutes and a 12th grader 2 hours.

So far, they have been close enough within guidelines.

DS:
kinder: random (but also half days)
1st: 1 hour per week

DD:
2nd: 40 minutes x 4 days per week (this I felt was too much. BUT, it was her first year not being homeschooled so she was a much slower writer than other kids. Once she "caught up" it was always under 2 hours/ week). This is a gifted class, so officially 3rd grade work. 30 minutes/day didn't seem too out of control. PLUS projects
3rd: 2 hours/week PLUS projects
4th: 2 hours/week PLUS projects

[guest^]

Thanks mommas!

This is *exactly* the type of discussion I was looking for.

We too value our family time,which will mean evenings now. I will just have to wait and see. DS isn't reading yet, so if he brings home work to do,I will have no choice but to help him.

It will be interesting to see how my DD approaches this.She has anxiety disorder,and is a true perfectionist.

The biggest part of me, feels the DC should be allowed some downtime/outside time,with a snack, before starting homework. But, I can see the value in having them sit down to a snack,and their homework-and getting it all done-then be free to play/whatever for the rest of the evening.

mommy68-It must depend on school district,as someone here told me that it's a "10 minute Xgrade level rule,beginning with first grade."So,that would mean....

1st-10 mins
2nd-20 mins
3rd-30 mins
4th-40mins
5th-50mins
6th-60 mins

UGH! That seems like soooo much.

Anyone else??

[mommy68]

Originally Posted by mamatoady

I agree with pp who said before grade 3 there shouldn't even be homework except perhaps reading assignments....and IMO on that, it should be anything the child chooses (within the framework of--it has to be a book)

sarah

My youngest did private school kindergarten last year and she had homework 3 nights per week. They didn't do Wednesday night or Friday because of church/weekend so they only did 3 nights, thank goodness. She also had several sight words that she was expected to learn each week and that was sent home on a paper at the first of each week. However, we did most of it in the car while waiting for her brothers to get out of school each day.

[mommy68]

Originally Posted by mamatoady

At what point is it just too much? For a child in junior or high school, you can't exactly go to every single teacher and say "hey, you guys need to collaborate here, because my kid is doing homework for 2 hours every night."

I agree.

My child was in middle school last year before we took him out to homeschool again. He was bringing home so much homework that it was insane. It was his first year taking 7 classes where he had to switch classes and get used to that routine and add all the homework on top of that and it was killing him. He was a stressed out, ill mannered child. He had no time to just relax and enjoy life except on weekends basically. He grew to hate Mondays.

And you really can't do a thing about it. You can ask a teacher for more time but a lot of it falls on the child. They are expected to take good notes, keep up with what is due and on what date and do their homework in a timely manner. If he turned in something even a day late then the teacher would take off 10 points from the grade, even if it was a perfect paper. It stunk.

It stressed ME out trying to keep up with my middle schooler's stuff on a daily basis. It wasn't that hard for me when I was in junior high.