How can I answer to this argument?

[sophi4ka]

I just spoke to my mom and she is very very concerned that my 7.5 mo DD is not vaxed at all yet. I told her that I "will do it some time later" and that I am not in a hurry. I am actually leaning towards not doing any vaxes at all, but the excuse of "later" gives me some break from her

Anyways, we spoke for about an hour on the phone, and her main argument is that she knows tonns of families with children and that she asks every one about their health issues and vax status and that none (100%) had any vax related issues. She kept saying that she knows so many families and all the kids there are just fine, so those side effects that I am talking about are exhaggerated and super rare and the VPDs are much worse then any vax side effects.

Of course, the fact that she thinks that everyone is doing just fine, doesn't mean that there are no problems.

The point is that she never read anything on the vax topic and has no idea about the actual vax related statistics (Myself, I read (and still read) tonns of information, so I don't need to be convinced). Also she says that you cannot trust any statistics cause it can be manipulated anyway you want. So she judges based on her personal experience and based on talking to people around her.

So how can I contradict the argument that from all those "tonns and tonns" of families that she know there were no adverse reactions to vaxes and all are vaxing on schedule.

All the data that I was giving her, was dismissed as "theoretical" that doesn't stand the "reality proof" of the fact that she doesn't know anyone vax damaged.

In addition, I also interact with lotta moms and dont' know anyone vax damaged. Even though I don't really go into their medical history, but at least on the surface they look fine to me.

I feel like I can point her to stats and articles online, but it will be all dismissed as not matching the reality around her.

So what can I say to her?

Thanks
Sophie

[grniys]

Personally, I'd refuse to talk to her about it and just say if she doesn't support my choice then we don't need to discuss it... but if you're not wanting to go that route, then that's understandable.

How does she know that no one has ever had a bad reaction to a vaccine? More times than not vax reactions get swept under the rug and something ends up just being a "coincidence." Because of course the vaccines are completely safe.

Not every family is going to have someone with a bad vax reaction. Then the statistics would be much, much higher.

It's not about so-and-so's child being ok, it's about your child. While other kids in your family may not have had problems, there is no gurantee that your child wouldn't wind up being a statistic. When you vax, it's a gamble.

Plus, we don't know what the long term side effects of the current vax schedule is, and we won't know for a few decades. There are too many unknowns.

Anyway, that's just my opinion and my thoughts.

[AlbertaJes]

I'd tell her it's not up for discussion. She had her time to be a parent, now it's mine.

If she really pushes, ask her how many of those kids developed a fever after getting vaccinated. How many of them got a "harmless" rash? Those are adverse reactions even if your doctor tells you otherwise.

DH's cousin's kids are vaccinated, and they are currently testing the younger one because she shows a lot of autistic tendencies. They suspect vaccines to be the cause of that.

[Scattershoot]

So what can I say to her?

Nothing really. If she has talked to tons and tons of people and knows for sure that no one has EVER had a reaction to vaccines than she already knows more than anybody EVER in the history of vaccine research. What could she possibly learn from you? I would seriously not bring it up ever again around her. All it will do is frustrate you and sap your energy. You have your own child to raise who needs all that energy.

My brother in law received a tetanus shot and the very next day half of his face was paralyzed. He couldn't close his eye (had to wear a patch) and constantly drooled. When he went back to the same doctor who had given him the shot the day before, the doctor said he had gotten a virus. I kid you not. A virus. The doctor diagnosed it as Bell's Palsy. He wouldn't even consider that it may be vax related. What's more interesting is that my brother in law had spoken to the doctor BEFORE the shot about the possibility of side effects (because he had been receiving info from me).

My point is that those who firmly believe in the sanctity of vaccines will NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER see anything as vax related (except for the gazillion lives that have supposedly been saved by their precious nectar of life).

Keep your child vaccine-free, and when she doesn't develop all the health conditions "healthy" children are getting nowadays, you will know you did the right thing. Of course the couple times a year she gets a fever to fight off a normal childhood "disease" and build her precious immune system, your mother will probably be thinking "I told you so," but that is the way it goes when you don't fall in line like a lemming. People will always look for the "I told you so" moment when they are convinced they are right.

I'm sure your mom will be helpful in other ways.

[angie7]

What exactly is she relating to vax damage? Autism, paralysis? Vax damage can go from very slight to very severe. Multiple ear infections, allergies, ezcema, etc can all be vax related. Those are not "severe" vax reactions but very well could be a vax reaction. No way to tell for sure. And the very few people she talks to about this, VAERS has millions of people who have had vax reaction.

[MsLondon]

Unfortunately these 'tons and tons' of families are probably quite mainstream and never think to question medical Gods/Doctors - .
So with that in mind, thier kids may very well have had a reaction that is described as 'normal': fever, rash, crankiness. Or what if those kids have developed asthma, excema etc? Of course the parents arent going to say its a vax reaction because anyone who hasnt researched possible vax related connections to these things have NO IDEA they could be related.

I always say that it is unfair to debate with someone who is not educated on the subject - a bit like taking candy from a baby. Because in my mind, how could you possibly defend something just because 'the doctors said its ok' or 'everyone else is doing it', without doing your own UNBIASED research.

NO doctor is going to tell you that any vaccine is 100% safe and thats all I needed to know to start my research. After educating myself on the diseases, I would rather take a gamble with a VPD then any shot and possible reaction to it.

They wont know for years what the full impact of this schedule will have on our children.

Your mum is just concerend obviously, and at least shes interested enough to ask around about vaxes, this is usually the first step in coming over to the other side! Take the opportunity to cultivate that interest and give her some easy reading literature to read on the subject, theres some great books out there.

I know that at the end of the day, its what YOU think that matters, but it always feels better when someone else is on board, particularly family! Good Luck

[Jasmyn's Mum]

Personally, I would tell her that this is NOT open for discussion. An adverse reaction is not always blatantly obvious. All she has to do is google vaccine adverse reaction and she would she "tons and tons" of people who are not ok because of vaccines.

It took a long time for my Mom to back off of my decision not to vax dd. I just stood strong and said we are not going to debate this over and over again. It is only now that it is getting more attention in th mainstram news that she is starting to see my point.

In the end, it doesn't matter what people say. YOU are your child's advocate. Noone else.

[wunderbubble]

Originally Posted by angie7

What exactly is she relating to vax damage? Autism, paralysis? Vax damage can go from very slight to very severe. Multiple ear infections, allergies, ezcema, etc can all be vax related. Those are not "severe" vax reactions but very well could be a vax reaction. No way to tell for sure. And the very few people she talks to about this, VAERS has millions of people who have had vax reaction.

::::::::

I think if she's not willing to do some research that you should stop talking about it...i had my grandmother telling me about the horrible polio and MMR that so many people were sick...she only knew one sick person btw.
The point was made that if they were not willing to sit down and read a few books or actual research then they were not entitled to lecture me on the subject.

I personally know nearly a dozen kids who's health has been dramatically affected by vaccines.... The next town over has the highest incidence of autism in the country

[Arduinna]

Yeah, I'd remind her I'm the mama, and I'd stop talking to her about it.

[ilovebabies]

All the convincing in the world isn't going to change her mind. She sounds a lot like my mom (who doesn't know I don't vax because I've never brought it up and don't plan to).

I think you're at a point where you just need to say something like, "Mom, I appreciate all the information and I'll take it to heart and make a decision based on the conclusion I come to from all my research, including what you've said. Since I'm the parent, I know I'll make the best decision for my child. I'd really like to not discuss this any further and would like for you to respect my decisions as the mother of my child."

[CanidFL]

Originally Posted by angie7

What exactly is she relating to vax damage? Autism, paralysis? Vax damage can go from very slight to very severe. Multiple ear infections, allergies, ezcema, etc can all be vax related. Those are not "severe" vax reactions but very well could be a vax reaction. No way to tell for sure. And the very few people she talks to about this, VAERS has millions of people who have had vax reaction.

I agree. Vaccines have been linked to asthma, diabetes, cancer, allergies, etc. These are not rare....look around.....I know tons of kids with asthma and allergies.

OP - I would not try to agrue with her. Ask her if she is willing to read a book and offer one of your favorites then discuss it later. There is no point in debating an issue when one side is completely uneducated and just going by the "well I know tons of families that don't have a vax reaction...."

[sophi4ka]

Thank you very much for your replies. I guess most of the people recommend not to talk to my mom about vaxes at all. Or at least until she educates herself on the matter. That sounds about right.

However, I know my mom and she will not read anything on the topic, or will read something that for sure will be pro-vax. I think she would defend vaxes no matter what evidence she encounters. She really truely believes in the medical establishement : Her both parents are MDs (my grandparents) and for her, really, doctors are sort of Gods. Like she said - "look, your aunt X, which is a doctor, vaccinated her 3 children, so it MUST be safe. She is a doctor, so she knows what she is doing"...

Anyways, I guess I should not discuss the vaxes with her, even though I know that she is truely worrying over it.

[loveyourohana]

I agree... I wouldn't discuss them with her either... It isn't worth feeling frustrated, or losing the relationship over.

I don't think you have to get in an argument or anything over it... Perhaps... .just because this is how I work...

But, from now on, after each visit, or if it comes up again... I would personally just answer the question with a question...


"Maybe I have given them, maybe I haven't, but in the end, does it really make a difference. You had your time to be a mom, and now its mine." Give her a huge hug, and let her know you love her, and do it often

[k9wife]

I would agree with the others. this topic is not open for discussion. I have the same problem with my mother and DC. We stopped discussing it years ago. Last month when DD got ready for school she said did you get her shots and I just said we got all our paper work we needed for school. Not a lie we got our non-vax form and her eye/ear/dental form. I am just not going there with my mom. We disagree on a lot of ways I raise my kids and I have to remind her at times thesse are MY kids. Her rebutal is always well you are MINE so she thinks she trumps everything.

[mama2be11]

Originally Posted by MsLondon

NO doctor is going to tell you that any vaccine is 100% safe and thats all I needed to know to start my research.

Be careful. My son's ped. did! When I asked him at his 2 week checkup how he felt about vacc. he said there is no risk. Well, when we left I started fuming to my husband and said there is NO WAY my kids are ever getting vaxed. How can he say there is no risk whatsoever? Now think of all those moms who just take that for an answer. I'm sure when we go in for his 2 mo. checkup he'll be singing a different tune because legally he has to inform us of the side effects. To which I've been thinking of some snarky comments. Although I do like this ped. because he's very pro-breastfeeding, cloth diapering, etc. But I will simply tell him we are not vaxing. PERIOD!

[NatureMama3]

I would point out that not every vax issue comes up immediately. Things like diabetes and RA take years to develop.

[llamalluv]

Originally Posted by grniys

How does she know that no one has ever had a bad reaction to a vaccine? More times than not vax reactions get swept under the rug and something ends up just being a "coincidence." Because of course the vaccines are completely safe.

:

With my last tetanus shot, I was warned that I might experience redness, swelling, and a fever. So, the next day when my arm swelled to nearly twice its normal size (to the point where none of my t-shirts fit), I didn't think of it as a "negative reaction." I thought of it as a "side effect". Along with the 101F fever. Yes, I know better now.

BTW- I've never heard of a kid that didn't have a reaction to a vax. As a matter of fact, 100% of moms that I have spoken with tell me that their kids exhibit crankiness and fevers in the few days after getting vaccinated. (Usually as a child is whining and on the verge of a tantrum). But the doctor TOLD them "that would happen, so it's okay."

[mom2kenz]

It's tough to convince someone when they already have their mind made up. Maybe she'd be interested in seeing some you tube videos of Jenny Mccarthy, who's son suffers from autism. That is pretty mainstream. Or reading some Russell Blaylock...he is a neurosurgeon who is anti-vax. I think he'd be a good doctor for her to trust. Good luck. It is YOUR choice to make, so if you can't get her to understand-then I wouldn't discuss it further.

[mamakay]

You could tell her (and it would be true) that you talked to a bunch of people who are older and non-vaxed and they're all fine, too, even though they lived during the times that the VPDs were common.

Anecdotal experience is quirky. It can't be used for making big decisions.

[applejuice]

those who firmly believe in the sanctity of vaccines ...

...firmly believe in a false religion.