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How can I answer to this argument? - Page 2  

post #21 of 37
8/22/08 at 9:18am
I have the exact opposite experience of your mother. Of all of the children my dd's age I am regularly around, these children were fed mostly organic and ebf just like my daughter, but my dd was the only one unvaxed.

When a cold or stomach swept the playgroups, dd never got them, or her stomach virus that wiped the rest of us out involved throwing up one time. Her immune system was astoundingly stronger than ours and all these other babes. She doesn't get colds or runny noses monthly like they did.

I changed my stance at my dd's 1st birthday from planning to start s/d vaxings to no vaxes at all.

I can't believe these kids your mom is asking about aren't the average children today who gets about 10 colds a year. Modern Pediatrics is failing children miserably and kids are sick, sick, sick all of the time. My doctor-worshipping friends who follow ever AAP guideline have children with all sorts of autoimmune issues and weak immune systems.

So on this topic and many others, I would learn to establish boundaries with your mom and not let her sway you to follow the herd and end up with such an immunocompromised child.
post #22 of 37
8/22/08 at 11:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophi4ka View Post
I just spoke to my mom and she is very very concerned that my 7.5 mo DD is not vaxed at all yet. I told her that I "will do it some time later" and that I am not in a hurry. I am actually leaning towards not doing any vaxes at all, but the excuse of "later" gives me some break from her

Anyways, we spoke for about an hour on the phone, and her main argument is that she knows tonns of families with children and that she asks every one about their health issues and vax status and that none (100%) had any vax related issues. She kept saying that she knows so many families and all the kids there are just fine, so those side effects that I am talking about are exhaggerated and super rare and the VPDs are much worse then any vax side effects.

Of course, the fact that she thinks that everyone is doing just fine, doesn't mean that there are no problems.

The point is that she never read anything on the vax topic and has no idea about the actual vax related statistics (Myself, I read (and still read) tonns of information, so I don't need to be convinced). Also she says that you cannot trust any statistics cause it can be manipulated anyway you want. So she judges based on her personal experience and based on talking to people around her.

So how can I contradict the argument that from all those "tonns and tonns" of families that she know there were no adverse reactions to vaxes and all are vaxing on schedule.

All the data that I was giving her, was dismissed as "theoretical" that doesn't stand the "reality proof" of the fact that she doesn't know anyone vax damaged.

In addition, I also interact with lotta moms and dont' know anyone vax damaged. Even though I don't really go into their medical history, but at least on the surface they look fine to me.

I feel like I can point her to stats and articles online, but it will be all dismissed as not matching the reality around her.

So what can I say to her?

Thanks
Sophie

Since she goes on personal experiences alone, ask her how many children she's known to have serious effects or die from a VPD, especially chicken pox and measles.

When she was very young, the vaccinations available were far fewer...so using her logic, kids must have been dropping dead left and right from their lack of vaccinations...
post #23 of 37
8/31/08 at 3:01am
Your mother isn't asking those families the right questions.

What is the general state of health of all these children who appear to be unharmed via vaccine?

Are any on chronic medication?

Any asthma?
Diabetes?
ADD?
How many sick visits per year, per month to the dr?
How many meds have they taken?
Any antibiotics, if so how often?
Have they been diagnosed with any particular illness?
If so, how many and what illnesses?

Let your mother know once she has the answer to those questions, you'll talk.
post #24 of 37
8/31/08 at 4:42am
Tell her thank you for looking into it! Let her know it shows she loves her grandchildren, and then gracefully let her know you will consider the views she has given. Then let her know how much you love your children, and that you will look at it again, but from now on you no longer wish to discuss it ever, she has given you her views, and you will do what you decide from there!

Tell her that from here on out her only job is to love her grandchildren, and just be a grandma, your job is to love them, and raise them, and be the mom.
post #25 of 37
8/31/08 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophi4ka View Post
Anyways, I guess I should not discuss the vaxes with her, even though I know that she is truely worrying over it.
In our family I had to deal with a very hysterical MIL who is a public health medical doctor - the topic is 100% not up for discussion. DH had to put very firm boundaries and also go through quite a process to realise that on a deeper level he was looking for his father and mothers (and their respective spouses) approval. Looking for their approval and making the best decision for our DS just could not go hand in hand.
I do not know what your dynamics are like, but just to repeat - if your mum cannot respect your choices and you end up feeling like you have to fight her for your choice - best not to talk to her about it.
. I am sorry!

Although it does sound like she is really worried. Try and find a way to allay her worries without vaxing.... perhaps you can get somewhere by addressing the worry and moving beyond the vax debate. (I had to make it very clear that just because family members were worrying, did not mean I had to do what they wanted me to do so that they would not worry!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by emma1325 View Post
Since she goes on personal experiences alone, ask her how many children she's known to have serious effects or die from a VPD, especially chicken pox and measles.

When she was very young, the vaccinations available were far fewer...so using her logic, kids must have been dropping dead left and right from their lack of vaccinations...
If you still want to debate with her - this is rather good advice.... but I think it might be best to close the topic to discussion.

This is tough, and it's also so tough to assert your authority as a parent when you are in conflict with your own parents.
post #26 of 37
8/31/08 at 2:29pm
Ya know..it's funny, we have a family friend, an epidemiologist, out of bethesda maryland that was asked by my mother and grandmother if she thought vaccines were dangerous... she wouldn't talk about it, she told them she didn't want to make any statements on it.


After that day, my mother finally picked up some of the stuff i gave her to read, and eventually my whole family has been looking at all the stuff i have pointed to, thier eyes are opening....they are reading

I feel like I am a child riding the dog in the neverending story, trying to get everyone to believe in a world where we could think and dream without the corporate dankness or darkness enveloping and completely putting the lights out on our ability to think live and dream.

I swear sometimes i am so glad i didn't complete my degree because if i went into medicine as it is now, in this country, i would have been completely disgusted.
post #27 of 37
8/31/08 at 2:38pm
My parents were like that at first and I told them no long term studies have been done blah blah.. then I said where did I get my allergies from? Where did I get x, y and z condition from? How about all the extra diseases out there that weren't there before? The increase in cancers, autoimmune disorders ect.. how is that explained? Until they can answer it, I told them not to mention it.
Plus, my DH has a bad vax reaction and we have medical records to prove it. We haven't had a problem since.
post #28 of 37
8/31/08 at 3:04pm
Anecdotes aren't evidence even if your mom is the most popular lady in town. Show her the VAERS website if you want her to see that there are, in fact, many children and adults who have had reactions, ranging from mild to death. http://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html http://www.vaers.hhs.gov/scripts/data.cfm The no-fault compensation system wouldn't have been established if vaccine reactions just didn't happen.

It isn't just about the fear of reactions either. They don't put lifelong health problems such as asthma, diabetes, neurological issues, autoimmune imbalances, etc. on the VAERS because there is no way to prove that vaccines contributed in anyway and you know big pharma and the government aren't conducting such studies because it would interfere with the current vaccine program and its "success."

I have found the best thing to do is to say "I appreciate your concerns. Thank you for sharing them with me. I will continue to research the matter and make the final decision." Now if my mom or grandma brings it up I just say "I thought we already went over this" and they drop it.
post #29 of 37
8/31/08 at 5:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveChild421 View Post

I have found the best thing to do is to say "I appreciate your concerns. Thank you for sharing them with me. I will continue to research the matter and make the final decision." Now if my mom or grandma brings it up I just say "I thought we already went over this" and they drop it.
I think this is better than how I put it! Do make sure you share anything with love, feelings spread too! You can have love and frustration, love and control... etc. Sending a message with love doesn't always mean being soft. But its better to begin with

Hope all goes well with MIL... I have a MIL who doesn't respect that I could have a different view than her, and who manipulates everything to get her way, so I have to be blunt. If it were my MIL I think LoveChild gave an awsome response! Blunt and kind, and draws a very clear line.
post #30 of 37
8/31/08 at 5:51pm
I do not even understand why you bother to let your mom in on a decision so personal to your parenting.

My MIL and FIL never knew my children were not vaccinated. NONE of their business. Years later, their son, my BIL told me that vaccinations were worthless...thank you, I knew that! He said that he and my DH were always very ill when they got their vaxes...

Do not discuss it further with her. This is your child, your health bill, your $ and your life. If your baby has a vax reaction, where will your mom be?
post #31 of 37
8/31/08 at 6:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
I do not even understand why you bother to let your mom in on a decision so personal to your parenting.

My MIL and FIL never knew my children were not vaccinated. NONE of their business. Years later, their son, my BIL told me that vaccinations were worthless...thank you, I knew that! He said that he and my DH were always very ill when they got their vaxes...

Do not discuss it further with her. This is your child, your health bill, your $ and your life. If your baby has a vax reaction, where will your mom be?
It happens. I never intended to tell either of our parents, but DH was so proud of our decision that he told both. I let him deal with it.
post #32 of 37
8/31/08 at 8:40pm
I'm new to this, but isn't part of the problem that parents don't recognize what problems are. Also, there is a lot of parents leaving babies alone, so I think that could make it easier to miss reactions like seizures.

Also,I think it would be hard to prove or disprove in some instances. Me,my brother, and my two cousins have had bouts with asthma (btw our moms are identical twins). One cousin has severe allergies. I wonder if it's vax related, but it's hard to tell since we're all fully vaxed.
post #33 of 37
8/31/08 at 8:48pm
I'd tell her that you are holding off al least until your child's immune system is better able to handle the vaxes (generally considered to be around age 2), but that you are not interested in talking about this with her anymore, you understand her concerns and have heard her opinion, and you are not interested in a debate.
post #34 of 37
8/31/08 at 9:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twinklefae View Post
It happens. I never intended to tell either of our parents, but DH was so proud of our decision that he told both. I let him deal with it.
My BIL did this once. At work. The co-worker refused to let their children play with his. This was over 20 years ago. He never opened his mouth about it again.
post #35 of 37
8/31/08 at 10:19pm
Wow applejuice... btw your user name is really fun!

Its like an entire different way of racism if you ask me.

Sorry my child cant play with yours you dont have the same religion or color of skin or now lets add to the list... immunization status...

:

I don't even think it needs to be discussed... but since she is trying to discuss it, what can you do you know, other than try your best to say not up for discussion in the best way possible.

Some people are sooooo osoooooo arghhhh
post #36 of 37
9/1/08 at 1:48am
Thread Starter 
The most unbelievable thing happen. My mom saw a show on TV (she doesn't live in the US, so it was in her country), and it was about vaccines. She said it was talking about pros and cons but mostly cons. She was totally amazed. And that show did it to her! She was so happy to share with me what she saw and all the bad things they said about vaxes there. Its like - if they say it on TV there must be something about it, right?
Anyway, at least she doesn't think of me like as of complete lunatic now.

Life is so unexpected.

Sophie
post #37 of 37
9/1/08 at 2:19pm

if she so trusts TV, you can have her to watch/read this:

How Independent Are Vaccine Defenders? (CBS news)
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4296175.shtml
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