Question concerning CPS thread

[Justice2]

Ok, I read the thread below titled Child Protective Services and Jessie's response to it and now I have a question. If UC is legal in your state (regardless if MW are legal or not), how can CPS be called? If UC is legal, what grounds does CPS have to come into your home and place you under investigation for medical negligance? Just curious. Thanks all!

[cottonwood]

It's one of those legal grey areas. UC is not specifically legal OR illegal. So it all depends on the spin CPS wants to put on it. If they start from the assumption that birth is inherently dangerous and NEEDS professional medical supervision, they can attempt to get you on grounds of neglect or practicing medicine without a license, even if everything went normally. Key word there is "attempt". I can't think of a case in which parents have been criminally charged or a baby has actually been removed from parents' custody because of an unassisted birth, except for that one highly publicized case recently involving a religious group that didn't seek medical care for their sick children and had some deaths. But I do know that UC parents have been threatened by relatives and medical professionals with calls to CPS and sometimes actually visited by CPS caseworkers, and of course that is going to be stressful even if no charges are ever brought.

[LazureFairie]

Exactly, they can attach any "label" they choose to any situation they do not agree with for whatever reasons. We ran into problems with this agency five years ago--not over a home birth, but I was also charged with "medical neglect" because I did not take one of my children for well-child visits and was treating him for acute illnesses (colds, earaches, nasal congestion etc.) with homeopathic remedies. This child was actually born at home (didn't have problems at that time because no one was reporting me) I used homeopathic remedies for years and took them during my pregnancy. They are certainly not illegal substances and completely free of side-effects, but because a relative was angry with me over something I got reported and CPS came down on us hard. I had the follow-up visits for over a year and a half and much stress and agravation due to their interference in our lives. They didn't get out of our lives ie close the case until we hired an attorney. The whole ordeal was a nightmare.
Unfortunately they are mandated by law to follow up on every report--even if the report is over something inocucous--like an UC or parent homeschooling or using alternative medical care or treatments. Homebirth, homeschooling and alternative medical care and remedies are all legal here too, but I know of many good, conscious parents that have to deal with CPS becuase they don't fit in the mainstream.

My advice is this--do not discuss anything you do that is an alternative parenting practice with anyone in the mainstream. This will lessen your chances of being reported to CPS in the first place and if you are reported, call and hire an attorney immediately and DO NOT speak to any SW unless the attorney is present. Chances are they won't open a case under those circumstances.
Again the best thing to do is not openly discuss your alternative birth plans etc.

[2much2luv]

There is no one in my life that I fear would ever report us for anything. My only concern is if something were to go wrong during the birth or even in the day or two after and we had to go to the emergency room. Has anyone ever transferred during a UC and had any trouble with being reported or threatened? I have heard lots of transfer stories and I wonder what the doctors say about it.

[Potty Diva]

This scares me as well. As it is Dh's family might call CPS on us over anything they found "different"than what they do.

We would like to have a homebirth here, and although they are legal in NC, I still worry.

I will heed the advice not to share alternative info with anyone I do not trust completely.

[ComaWhite]

Some lovely person had the balls to call them and lie and say that I had my baby at home completly alone, had NO prenatal care and was refusing to take her to a doctor for a well-checkup.
Luckily for us, the woman who was investigating the case was an absolute god-send.
She listened to the REAL version of what happened and then rolled her eyes and said "women have been doing it this way for millions of years, and even I think even all the prenatal doctor visits are excessive."
She told us that the file came across her desk and she thought she'd better come to us first and close the case before another worker blew it out of proportion and caused us some trouble.
She followed up with the doctor and appologised over and over.
(Thank godness we took her in for a checkup the day after though...)

But now we are having great difficulties registering her birth.

We would have been totally screwed if we hadn't done the 2 prenatal visits I went to and the day-after-the-birth check-up. Seriously consider doing this, as you may need some "official" documentation stating that your baby exists and that you aren't a total "crazy".

edited for really bad spelling

[LazureFairie]

Originally posted by 2much2luv
Has anyone ever transferred during a UC and had any trouble with being reported or threatened? I have heard lots of transfer stories and I wonder what the doctors say about it.

There was a family at our local homebirth support group who were reported after a hospital transfer. They were having a midwife-assisted homebirth and ran into some problems. She actually gave birth in the car on the way but then the placenta would not come out. They went to the hospital to have the placenta removed and the problem arised over the baby not being allowed to be with her after the procedure. (The mom was admitted to the hospital but the baby was not -- a red tape issue ) So the staff wanted to admit the baby and put the baby in the newborn nursery as a way to get around their red tape issues and when the parents refused, a report was put in to CPS for medical neglect of the newborn. They had to get an attorney too to put an end to the ridiculous investigation.

My dh and I were just discussing this since we are planning another homebirth (I am not pregnant yet) and we have decided we have to keep quiet about the pregnancy and our birth plans. Also I have been in touch with CPS watch after our previous ordeal and if in the event we are reported, I will not allow them into our home. Legally they must have a search warrant in every state to enter your home and you do not have to answer their questions either. They will keep prodding and intimitading though, agree to let them in only if/when there is an attorney present. Also record your conversation with them. In every
instance I have known, once an attorney is involved they back out.

[Greaseball]

My mother, who had 2 UC births, told me of a friend of hers who had twins. One was born dead, so she buried it on her property and that was it. Can you imagine the outcry now? I'm not even sure that was legal in the 70s.

What happens is some UCers see OBs for ease in getting a birth certificate, since the pregnancy would be on official record. Some of them tell the OB of their plans, the OB comes up with a "medical reason" why the pregnancy is a danger, and then can inform CPS that there is a woman willingly endangering her child.

But then, if one doesn't see an OB, they can't say "I tried to go to the hospital but I just didn't get there in time!"

If I was going to do it I would not want to lie about it. It is not illegal. A lot of legal things (like mw assisted homebirth, and nonvaxing, and ebf) can get CPS called. It often depends on who you are, or where you are on the social class scale.

[BabyBurkeSmithsMom]

What is a UC?

Please excuse my ignorance. Abbreviations used in these posts are not common knowledge. I wish there was a key somewhere.
Thanks.

[citizenfong]

A UC is an unassisted (by medical personnel) childbirth.