Expired car seats on Freecycle - Page 2

[janasmama]

Originally Posted by Smalls181

It is no safer to be in an expired seat than in no seat at all. The plastic breaks down over time, as does all plastic, and becomes brittle. In a crash, the force could, and has, caused the harness to break through the plastic, strangling the child, or ejecting them completely.

There are many options for parents who cannot afford a new seat. An expired seat is not their only option.

As for freecycle... all we can do is give parents the information and the rest is up to them. It is very unfortunate when parents choose to put their childrens life at risk, but there isn't a whole lot we can do about it.

The CHP will often give out free carseats if the one you have is expired or the child is over the weight for it. I'm sure not having a carseat at all would qualify a person for one also.

[mamazee]

Originally Posted by MommyJoia

if you have enough $ to be sitting around posting on the internet, you have enough $ to get the cheapest car seat, which has to be safer than an expired car seat. IMHO

Is it the cost of the internet or the "sitting around" that is the issue? Because the job market isn't great and there are PLENTY of people out of work and without income who are "sitting around" who would rather not be. And there are disabled people who are unable to work but who still have babies. And there are people for whom working would not pay as much as childcare. "Sitting around" doesn't mean that not sitting around is going to mean someone has more money, or even that the person is able to not "sit around".

And as for the internet, it is really inexpensive to have internet access these days. In fact, some communities have free dial-up access. Some people live near a wi-fi spot and are able to access that. Some people just use the internet at the library. And computers can be had for free if you get a family member's hand-me-down or if you ask on Freecycle. There is no reason to assume that someone must have enough money for something else if they have internet access.

On top of that, I hate the idea that in order for someone to justifiably need help, that person shouldn't have any moment at all to "sit around" or any luxury at all, even a very inexpensive one like internet access.

[Papooses]

Originally Posted by Smalls181

In a crash, the force could, and has, caused the harness to break through the plastic, strangling the child, or ejecting them completely.

This is why a *new* seat is necessary. This does not mean that using only a seatbelt is at all safe for the child.

all we can do is give parents the information and the rest is up to them

Absolutely "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink...."

Originally Posted by Smalls181

In my small community, there are several options. We have a Safe Kids Coalition, the Health Department, and the OB department at the hospital.

Each community is different, but, yes, there is usually more than 1 way to find/afford a safe *new* seat. The Daycare & Child Development Council in my county also has a program to provide new carseats for free + the necessary education to income qualifying families. There's also te Kyle David Miller Foundation.

Originally Posted by Ironica

TBH, an expired carseat can shatter under crash forces, causing sharp debris to fly around the cabin... yeah, I'd say it *is* more hazardous (in an accident) than no carseat at all.

Well, you are right that the harness (and child) are known to rip through the shell of expired carseats. However ... safest practice still indicates that an expired carseat is indeed safer than none at all. In part because the carseat does a better job of keeping the child inside the vehicle. Ejected occupants are 4 times as likely to die. There are other reasons that more experienced techs or instructors are more prepared to explain accurately. A recent study (forgive me, I don't have all my links) shows that slightly misused seats are absolutely safer than none at all. I am not condoning the use of expired carseats. However, I am even less supportive of not using any carseat whatsoever

Originally Posted by Ruthla

Expired "infant buckets' can safely be used as infant seats in the house, as an alternative to a "bouncy seat". Degraded plastic that might shatter during a vehicle collision should hold up just fine on the kitchen floor.

True

P.S. re: $ . . . I am an unemployed single mother with chronic illness in college full time. I have ZERO income. I also happen to be a CPST. I don't have internet at home. I don't have a phone at home. I use my friends' internet. My 5 siblings & I share a family cell phone plan. I don't even own a vehicle. I rock public transportation & move my kid's seats around from vehicle to vehicle for carpool/rideshare. We visit our friends & neighbors for shared meals, sending eachother home with leftovers. We love handmedowns. We use vinegar & baking soda to clean. You could call us poverty stricken. But, we're clean, responsible, smart & my kid is still safe in seats that were brand new off the shelf.

[cam&kat's_mom]

nevermind. dont' feel like getting jumped all over.. posted before i read the whole thread.. no need to be another parent that "just doesn't care"

[MommyJoia]

sorry to have offended.

It's the cost, and while I know there are several avenues to get free internet access, there are also several aves to get free or discounted seats, which are available through internet searches.

I had posted not to long ago that I couldn't afford a new seat. My husband was willing to put it on our only non-maxed-out cc. luckily I came into about $200 and we were able to buy the seat with cash. I could have used the $ to make a cc payment, I could have used it for groceries, but I chose to put my dd's safety first and get her 5 point harnessed again.

I think part of the "thrill" of freecycle is getting something for free whether you actually need it or not. I have asked for clothes for my kids a few times on freecycle. I didn't get them, but my kids are not naked.

I also have friends who have no internet access, none, they cannot afford it, but they own 6 or 7 different kinds of slings/baby carriers. It's about priorities. She'd rather have her baby in a sling, than have net access.

[Papooses]

Originally Posted by cam&kat's_mom

that was my thinking as well. In our area there are no free carseats. at leas tnot to my knowledge adn i have looked.

In all honesty, it can be near impossible to find the free carseat clinics. This has a lot to do with the fact that such programs are bound by grant limitations & privacy laws. Too many people who are not truly in need just want free handouts without making the effort on their own. I'm not allowed to volunteer at our local fire or police station seatchecks because I'm not an employee, even though I have my own liability insurance. It's sad when those who truly are in need cannot find the resources, though

In dire circumstances only, an expired or used seat would be an acceptable *temporary* solution while saving the $15-50 for a brand new carseat. Expensive fancy features never trump CORRECT USE. Expired = incorrect use.

If your area truly has no resources for those who really are in need (the credit card bills can wait: you don't want to look back at your child's headstone & wish you'd simply taken a late fee!) then it sounds like a wonderful opportunity for you to become certified yourself so that you make miracles happen in your community

[MommyJoia]

Originally Posted by Papooses

P.S. re: $ . . . I am an unemployed single mother with chronic illness in college full time. I have ZERO income. I also happen to be a CPST. I don't have internet at home. I don't have a phone at home. I use my friends' internet. My 5 siblings & I share a family cell phone plan. I don't even own a vehicle. I rock public transportation & move my kid's seats around from vehicle to vehicle for carpool/rideshare. We visit our friends & neighbors for shared meals, sending eachother home with leftovers. We love handmedowns. We use vinegar & baking soda to clean. You could call us poverty stricken. But, we're clean, responsible, smart & my kid is still safe in seats that were brand new off the shelf.

this is exactly my point.

[tapmilkmom]

I think part of the issue is that resources can be very hard to locate. I work at a mental health clinic working with moderately to severely mentally ill people. I help them locate the resources they need to just to get by. (housing, food, balance checkbook, hygeine, etc.) I am constantly learning about resources that, while new to me have been around for years and I'm just now hearing about it.


When I had post-partum depression just finding the phone number took great effort, then trying to get them to call me back took awhile, too.


There are definite obstacles to accessing services. It is not generally a matter of "just not wanting it" or priorities.

[BelovedBird]

Originally Posted by odenata

If my choice was an expired carseat or none, I would take the expired one. However, I can't imagine that ever being the only two options. There are state programs that provide free carseats, hospitals that provide free carseats, etc. Giving out expired carseats is not safe, and it may cause someone to compromise their child's safety instead of taking the time to get one that is safe.

There are places that there are no "state carseat programs" or hospital carseats for instance the country I live in, Israel.

[BelovedBird]

Originally Posted by Smalls181

It is no safer to be in an expired seat than in no seat at all. The plastic breaks down over time, as does all plastic, and becomes brittle. In a crash, the force could, and has, caused the harness to break through the plastic, strangling the child, or ejecting them completely.

Interesting.

There are many options for parents who cannot afford a new seat. An expired seat is not their only option.

Maybe in your world, your reality. Try to keep in mind your reality is not the only one.

[BelovedBird]

Originally Posted by MommyJoia

if you have enough $ to be sitting around posting on the internet, you have enough $ to get the cheapest car seat, which has to be safer than an expired car seat. IMHO

Public library anyone?

Anyway, I was not thinking of people who have internet, I was just asking the question. I was asking in terms of my old seats that I lent out to others to use, people who would otherwise NOT USE a car seat at all.
Oh, and as you can see car seats can be a lot more then you are used to in other countries. (the shekel is around 3.5 to the dollar now)

[Pumpkin_Pie]

Yikes! I didn't mean to start such a heated discussion!

Back on topic, anyone want to point me in the direction of some good solid facts I can send to the mod to put out in a mass email from him? I know I can go googling, but I am sure someone here (CPST's maybe?) must have this bookmarked.

:

[BelovedBird]

Kim, there are people right here who are wondering what the issue is with expired seats- isn't that on topic?

[Ironica]

Originally Posted by BelovedBird

There are places that there are no "state carseat programs" or hospital carseats for instance the country I live in, Israel.

Here's the page for the Israel branch of SafeKids: http://www.beterem.org/ They'd be who to contact about reduced-price or free carseats for needy families.

Do people offer up expired carseats on Freecyle Israel?

There are a lot of cultural issues around carseat use, I realize, plus the standards are different in different countries. You posted a link to prices, along with the conversion; the carseats on that page appear to start around $72 US... which isn't as cheap as the Cosco Scenera, but then, I don't know how the cost of living compares or whether the standards are more rigorous. Certainly, the new national law requiring boosters through age 9 is better than we have in the US (there may be states that require booster usage for that long, but I don't know for sure, and the vast majority don't).

What is car ownership like in Israel? In many places, having and using a car is much more of a luxury, so assuming that a family which drives can also afford a carseat is reasonable.

[tapmilkmom]

From this statement:


"This topic has been addressed to the group on numerous occasions, so I did not send out another post about it in June when you requested it as I felt that it had been addressed recently enough. The last time it was addressed I did a search of the archived carseat posts. 99% of them included information about the age of the seat and whether or not it has been in an accident. I think that people are aware of the expiration date and accident information and that is why they include it in their posts.


It sounds as if the moderator is losing patience. (That is the way I read it, anyway.) Keep in mind that the mission of freecycle is to "keep stuff out of landfills". While I can see you are passionate about this.........they aren't. (freecycle mods) I think that maybe they don't want to get into the habit of policing all posts. ("Hey, that bicycle helmet was recalled and they were allowed to post it!" etc.)


Even though she/he (the mod) offered to let you post one little blurb about this, I think that this person is doing it as a way of appeasing you one last time so he/she can say, "enough, already!" if you post about it again.


That's just mho from what I read in the email reply. Of course, it is hard to read intent in an email.

[BelovedBird]

Originally Posted by Ironica

Here's the page for the Israel branch of SafeKids: http://www.beterem.org/ They'd be who to contact about reduced-price or free carseats for needy families.

I highly doubt they would actually give car seats. I would call just to prove it to you on Sun, mon. if I remember.

Do people offer up expired carseats on Freecyle Israel?

Don't know anything about freecycle Israel. I know someone has my 10 year old car seat right now. I'm wondering if I should take it back from them so their kid can be unrestrained instead.

What is car ownership like in Israel? In many places, having and using a car is much more of a luxury, so assuming that a family which drives can also afford a carseat is reasonable.

You don't have to own a car to take your baby or child in one, so that point is not really relevant. Or do you believe that an unrestrained child is somehow safer if the car belongs to someone else?

[Papooses]

Re: what to send the Freecycle mods.... Please use the link I provided in my 1st reply to this thread That should simply be sent in the standard weekly/monthly announcements (as my local Freecycle finally agreed to do) + any/all of the resources found HERE (you should send each URL separately: click on the pictures for the pages to open up)

Originally Posted by BelovedBird

You don't have to own a car to take your baby or child in one, so that point is not really relevant. Or do you believe that an unrestrained child is somehow safer if the car belongs to someone else?

Excellent point Just a note, though . . . in one of your last posts you quoted someone else's thoughts on an expired seat not being safer than nothing -- please read through my response to that "advice": as a CPST it worries me to think that people would choose nothing over something. Something is indeed better than nothing. However, while it is also difficult or near impossible to find the resources, there is usually a safer alternative

[tapmilkmom]

I was thinking about this thread earlier and had an idea. Why don't you put a quick blurb (maybe with a link to a blog post or some website with stats) about using expired carseats in your email signature line? That way everytime you send an email they will get the info, but you won't be having 'words' with the mods.

[bmcneal]

Slightly OT, but carseats have expiration dates? Where is it located at? Is there an average of how long a carseat lasts? Wow, now I'm worried.

[Papooses]

Originally Posted by bmcneal

Slightly OT, but carseats have expiration dates? Where is it located at? Is there an average of how long a carseat lasts? Wow, now I'm worried.

The manual always explains: always start with the manual.... Many seats now also have the expiration imprinted on the plastic shell/frame -- usually underneath or on the back.

When in doubt, call the toll free customer service # listed on the stickers on the seat.

If you don't have a manual, request a replacement ASAP.