C-Section Baby

[Juice23]

I've been reading all the posts about emergency and elective c-sections, and I have really been upset by a lot of the choices being made. Most of the mothers are afraid of having VBACs b/c of the minimal risk of uterine rupture or b/c their Docs tell them they can't have a vaginal birth with any subsequent children. It really is a shame that women have been frightened into such powerless roles.

I am writing this post because I was a baby taken by C-section. My mom wanted to have a vaginal birth, but her doc ordered her to have a c-section because they thought I was a month overdue. Turns out I was probably born about three weeks too early. I am now 23 years old and my mom had four other children-all vaginally with no problems whatsoever (three of them at home). I want moms to know the effects that c-sections can have on their babies-I'm not talking physical either. I am talking about emotional affects. I am not a researcher and I have no scientific data to back up my post, but I have personal experience.

For my entire life, I have been suffering from abandonment issues. Not until about three or four years ago did I finally make the connection that it had to do with the way I was born. My parents have always been present in my life and have always affirmed their love for me-no matter what I do-but I have never been able to go far from them or do things on my own without complete fear of being abandoned (again). The sad thing about it is that my parents never abandoned me in the first place-but I always thought they did b/c they allowed the doctor to take me from my mother before I was ready. My mom also feels that I was taken from her too early and she has been dealing with her own issues about her c-section. She still has anger and resentment toward the doc, 23 years later.

In other areas of my life, I have had some love relationships, but they never last more than eight or nine months and I have figured out that part of the problem is that I have a real fear of the men leaving me (again, the abandonment thing). Oftentimes, I help derail the relationship so that they can't leave me first. The same thing happens in all of my friendships. I never stay friends with anyone for a very long time because I fear that they will end up abandoning me.

Luckily, I have many caring people in my life that are helping me work through these issues and I have been able to let go of the resentment that I have held towards my parents. I am not looking for sympathy, this is my path and I choose to work through my own stuff, BUT I am telling the mothers on this list so that they can make informed decisions about their birth choices with regard to how it might affect their children in the long run. Physical scars heal, but mental and emotional scars last a lifetime.

[Lucysmama]

Thank you for your post, and welcome to Mothering! I think you will see that the vast majority of women here are very informed about c/sec hazards, and most do not do elective cesarean unless they feel strongly about not attempting a VBAC. I agree with you, our cesarean rate is very high, and women are not being informed about the real (minimal) risks of VBAC.
Our VBAC forum here is a very supportive place, and many women go there for support when attempting a VBAC and for help on dealing with feelings about c/secs and VBAC.

Sorry your own birth didn't go well...I was also born via an unnecessary cesarean.

[Arduinna]

Thank you for your honest post and welsome to Mothering.

I agree that many people make the decision to have elective c sections based on either pressure from their Dr or from being uninformed. My own sister had an elective c section 3 weeks prior to her due date so she could be sure not to be in the hospital during Xmas and make sure she was up to hosting parties. :

[ladylee]

durn doublepost!

[ladylee]

Have you ever considered rebirthing? I found it resolved many issues I felt stemmed from my own birth (a vaginal one, btw.) I did it for dd#1 ( a cesarean delivery) in my way, and it was also very helpful. I wish you much luck in your healing journey.

I also found attachment parenting to be an integral part of the healing process from a cesarean birth, and I'm sure it was for my daughter as well.

"It really is a shame that women have been frightened into such powerless roles."-Juice 23

I've birthed twice by cesarean-neither time did I feel I was in a powerless role. Giving away your power is not an exclusive symptom of cesarean births. I'm quite certain many others would say the same. Just introducing a different perspective for you to consider.

[Juice23]

C-section Baby

Thank you for the welcomes.

I'm not saying that c-sections put women into powerless roles. All types of births can leave women feeling powerless if they are uninformed or miseducated. It is too bad that medical professionals fail to really inform women on what their choices are, often forcing them to make choices based on what the Doc thinks is right, not what SHE wants or thinks is right. This is how they are powerless.

I have not considered doing a re-birth (not because I don't want to, just because it never crossed my mind to do one). I have heard of them, though. I will have to check into it and see what it might do for both my mom and me.

Anyway, my point is that C-sections are tough on moms AND babies and when a woman is considering a c-section, she should take into account any emotional affects that it may have on her child (we won't even get into the physical affects since that would be another post entirely).

I'd also like to reply to the comment about how women do not elect to have c-sections. In reality, they do. Every time you read a post from a woman that has had an emergency c-section and has been told that she cannot have a VBAC or has decided not to have a VBAC, she is electing to have a c-section. There is no other option to deliver your child, besides a c-section, if you don't do it vaginally. When a woman sits down with her doc to schedule the c-section, she is electing to have it, since she has chosen not to deliver vaginally.

BTW, I am the oldest, so all four of my siblings could/would be considered VBAC births, and my mom was the first woman to have a VBAC in the state of Ohio.

[Lucysmama]

Re: C-section Baby

Originally posted by Juice23
\
I'd also like to reply to the comment about how women do not elect to have c-sections. In reality, they do.

That is not the point I was trying to make..sorry for the misunderstanding. I was saying, here at MDC, a great many women DO have VBAC, and are better informed than other peer groups I have been exposed to. I was saying that you may find that to be true as you get to know everyone here at MDC.

Of course, women do elect to have c-sections again, and that is a very personal decision. Believe me, as a woman who was both BORN by and who has birthed by unnecessary c-sec, nothing makes me angrier than women being coerced, bullied, and misinformed regarding VBAC.

There are, of course, instances where c/sec is a wonderful and lifesaving procedure. However, proximity does breed overuse, and FAR too many women are being wheeled into the OR.

Where in Ohio do you live? I'm an Ohioan too!

[its_our_family]

Re: C-section Baby

Originally posted by Juice23

I'm not saying that c-sections put women into powerless roles. All types of births can leave women feeling powerless if they are uninformed or miseducated. It is too bad that medical professionals fail to really inform women on what their choices are, often forcing them to make choices based on what the Doc thinks is right, not what SHE wants or thinks is right. This is how they are powerless.

I'd also like to reply to the comment about how women do not elect to have c-sections. In reality, they do. Every time you read a post from a woman that has had an emergency c-section and has been told that she cannot have a VBAC or has decided not to have a VBAC, she is electing to have a c-section. There is no other option to deliver your child, besides a c-section, if you don't do it vaginally. When a woman sits down with her doc to schedule the c-section, she is electing to have it, since she has chosen not to deliver vaginally.

Ppl are miseducated both ways. I was talking to a gal on another board who lost her son and her uterus in birth because her ob never mentioned the possibility of rupture. And another gal who did rupture but her babe was just fine and was not told it was possible. just like everything else in life it is our responsibility to do the research and educate ourselves. We can't expect someone else to do it for us.

And yes, there are some women who do not have the choice. There are certain physical things that make it impossible to deliver vaginally and yes there are women here like that.

Just don't assume that ppl have let someone else make their decision. Sometimes things happen.

[Greaseball]

It surprises me how many women are having them. I remember being in my AIDS & STDs class and the teacher was talking about herpes and c/s, and I mentioned that there were some practitioners (midwives) who just cover herpes lesions with plastic wrap and deliver the baby vaginally. The teacher said thta no one goes into a c/s lightly, that it's always a thought out decision. That's not true! I'm amazed at what I hear in my small town of how many pregnant women are going to ask for a c/s at their first prenatal appt, non-pg women who say that as soon as they conceive they will ask their doctor for one, and all the stupid reasons others have had them, like the woman who said she had to have one because the baby was 8 lbs.

I went to this restaurant in a town with the population of 2000 and a lot of the women in the restaurant were talking about their babies and most of them were born by c/s. Even in a town that small, it's normalized. The rate was only 5% in the US not long ago!

Books like What to Expect make it sound enjoyable by telling moms that during a c-birth "you just get to relax and enjoy everything!" They also recommend telling toddlers that "MOST babies come out of the mother's vagina." As if it's totally normal that some don't come out that way. What happened to the c/s as an emergency procedure?

"Large" babies are getting smaller and smaller. My dh weighed 9/5 and now a large baby is 8/13. No one told dh's mom that she might not be able to deliver her baby. It used to be that 24 hours was too long for your water to be broken, now in some places it's 12 hours. What's changed?

Most "emergency" cesareans are done during business hours. The rate is higher on holidays. Is it really the baby that has something wrong with it? If 25% of babies needed to be born that way or else they would die, the human race would never have grown to the rate it has.

BTW, about uterine rupture - sources I trust say it's a nonissue as long as Pitocin is not used. If you deliver in a hospital, you will most likely receive Pit. The safest place for a VBAC (or any birth, really) is at home. (My favorite book on the subject is Open Season.) The rate of rupture when Pit is not used is no different for VBACs than for unscarred uteri.

[Peppermint]

Re: C-section Baby

It is good that you are concerned about women being coerced into c-births and also being misinformed

However, it is always best, while trying to educate, to realize that you do not know everyone's situations.

I won't go into all the details here, but I am a c-birth mama of 2, and will always be a c-birth mama.

Originally posted by Juice23
I'd also like to reply to the comment about how women do not elect to have c-sections. In reality, they do. Every time you read a post from a woman that has had an emergency c-section and has been told that she cannot have a VBAC or has decided not to have a VBAC, she is electing to have a c-section. There is no other option to deliver your child, besides a c-section, if you don't do it vaginally. When a woman sits down with her doc to schedule the c-section, she is electing to have it, since she has chosen not to deliver vaginally.

This is where judgement of another's situation, and a lack of knowledge can come into play. I have a deformed pelvis, I have known since my very first pelvic exam that I would never deliver a baby vaginally, this has been confirmed by numerous OBs and midwives, as well as by an attempt to deliver vaginally, b/c I didn't like being told I couldn't. Well... I can't, my pelvis is deformed and I do not have a choice to have a vaginal birth, my c-births are not by "choice" they are a necessity and there are other medical conditions which make c-section a "necessity" as opposed to a choice, so when people talk about "educating" others about c-section, they need to realize that while many women may need their education, others have no choice, and are quite educated already.

I just ask that you not make assumptions #1- that people who have c-births are uneducated, #2- that it is a "choice" for everyone (sure I guess I could chose for my babies to die inside me )

Education is a great thing, but making assumptions about someone else's situation is not respectful.

[LisaG]

Hi! I have been following several threads in the c-sec, VBAC areas for a few days because my friend has been told, after having surgery to correct a uterine deformity, that she must have all her babies by c-section. She was told this despite all the research that suggests that, to the contrary, it would be safer for her to have a vagnal birth.

I am the mother of five children. My first was born by unnecessary c-section. How do I know this? Because my diagnosis was CPD and my ten pounder was followed by a 10 and a half pounder! My second, larger baby was the first VBAC in Columbus, Ohio.

Ladies, my midwives stopped doing pelvimetry after that birth because it proved that pelvimetry is basically a useless tool. But it taught them another lesson, too. That position during labor and birth makes a big difference in the baby's abiliy to navigate the birth canal.

This VBAC experience occurred in 1982. After that VBAC in hospital (OSU) atended by a midwife, a privately retained nurse and a high risk doc anxious to make a name for himself, I gave birth with no drugs, a hep lock inserted in the last four hours, I tore a bit because the doc wouldn't let the midwife do the perineal support and was discharged home with my baby two hours after birth with my beautiful second daughter in tow. My only regret: that I didn't do it at home where my other beautiful daughter could be a part of the expereince.

My next three children were born safely and wonderfully at home. To this day, there is no evidence of even the slightest dehisence to the scar. And each one of my babies was bigger than the last!

So why am I posting? My situation turned out great.

Well it wasn't great for the first year after my c-sec. I was depressed and suffering from what we now know as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, which does occur after any kind of
birth wherein the mother felt violated, miseducated, misinformed or denied her right to choose.

I was told continuously in the last three months of pregnancy that my baby was too big for me and then, when the ultrasound scans showed a crown-rump measurement consistent with an older baby, my due date was changed to reflect the test despite me knowing exactly when I became pregnant. (By the way, ultrasound scans are not accurate predictors of fetal age and size, especially after 16 weeks gestation, but I didn't know that when I was pregnant with my first.)

I was induced at what the test showed was 42 weeks. My baby was actually only 38 weeks gestational age. Thank God they didn't induce me earlier! I shudder to think what might have happened! Then, RDS was a laife-threatening situation, the management was not nearly as good as it is now.) Well, She was not ready and neither was I and I didn't dilate. So off they took me to the OR and put me under without my consent. I woke up to see my gorgeous first baby two hours later when what I had planned was to breastfeed her within the first hour and go home ASAP after birth.

Breastfeeding went fine, and she was perfect, and I recovered without even a hint of a problem except that, down the road I have had probelms with muscular weakness in the area of the incision and adhesion problems. I have addressed both successfully with Pilates and craniosacral bodywork.
But I was depressed, angry, and fighting mad for years.

I had been violated and I was determined never to let anyone control my birthing situation again. And so my decisions were governed by that desire. And I have done what I wanted.

Each woman has that same right. They can choose to have repreat c-secs if thay want or they can have VBACs if they want. Some women (a very small percentage: 7% or less) will even need c-secs if they choose to continue having babies. The point here is, (a point that seems to be getting missed), that a woman's choice ought to be made after she has been as fully informed as is humanly possible.

To presume that what a doctor tells you is all the information that you ever need to make an informed decision is naive. In my own situation, my doc told me "no VBACs for you, you couldn't handle a big baby, ever. You or your baby could die." Well, was he wrong? Blatantly!!!!

Each and every woman owes it to herself AND to her baby to consider every shred of information out there in making her decision. Each person who shares a fact and an experience adds to the information bank. I don't think anyone who posts here intends to indicate that a particular choice is wrong, just that a particular reason for making that choice may not be based on full information.

I am sure that many of you are aware that the c-sec rate has climbed once again to well over 10% ( and in some communities, upweards of 30-40%) because of the abuse of epidural meds during childbirth. I can hear some of you now "I needed my epidural, etc., etc." Well, the fact still remains that epirdurals slow labor, cause babies' heart rates to decellerate necessitating c-sec intervention, lead to vacuum extraction for failure to progress. Now, this is not just my opinion, but solid, research-based fact. Those same childbirth drugs get to the baby within seconds of administartion and can negatively impact breastfeeding and bonding. Again, fact.

C-sections have a whole host of morbid and mortal side effects. Women still die from c-sections and so do babies. C-section wasn't even considered "safe" until the 1970s when there was a big leap in proper understanding and application of anesthetics.

So, when we consider the facts, a whole picture emerges around the relative wisdom of assuming that c-sec is an appropriate choice in all cases. If a safer, more advantageous choice could be made in a given situation, it ought to be. Proper choices can be made only when proper information is provided. Proper information does not include myth, desire, foolishness, monetray considerations, legal issues and opinion.

This means that each situation should be evaluated individually and on its own merits.

But, and here is my biggest point... the fact that c-section has negative consequences is a real concern that should not be dismissed. That vaginal birth in some situations has negative consequences is real, that epidurals and spinal's have negative consequences is real. In my mind, the questions needing answered are How do you avoid the worst possible scenario and protect your infant and yourself in the process? and What WILL You Do to compensate for the downside after the baby is born should you have to choose an approach that carries negative consequences?

It seems that to become defensive when other women present suggestions to address the various issues is a coverup for deeper feelings that perhaps should be addressed. I highly recommend that women have bodywork, talk therapy and the like to ferret out and address emotional and physical issues just as a matter of course post delivery of any kind. It never hurts to be proactive. And, hey, if you feel completely OK about the events of your birth, fabulous! Then life is sweet.

My daughter posted earlier. It was only through our mutual acknowledgement that something was up for both of us post her c-sec that we have been able to navigate the post-birth waters productively. We have done rebirthing and it helped. I have done much on my own and she is pursuing various avenues to assist her in her process. I wish I could have been more assertive for her sake, but I couldn't and wasn't and that is just the way it is. But, I didn't have to be a victim the next time around and so I wasn't. But that is just my way.

Yours may be different. But I hope that no matter what any one of you chooses, that it is a choice based on all information and after you ahve eben able to process any misgivings, fears and fallout from your previous birth experience.


Alison

[LisaG]

Clarifying Potential Confusing

Hi ladies,

Just wanted to clarify that the above post was made by Alison, not me. We share a work computer and unbeknownst to her it automatically logged on with my screen name when she posted her reply.

Sorry for any confusion.

LisaG

[LisaG]

I was talking to a gal on another board who lost her son and her uterus in birth because her ob never mentioned the possibility of rupture. And another gal who did rupture but her babe was just fine and was not told it was possible.

I wonder if her doc told her how much the risk of rupture increased with use of any type of induction? : Prostaglandin, pitocin, etc. are NOT a good combination with a scarred uterus. Unfortunately a lot of studies that explore uterine rupture fail to specifiy whether or not induction agents were used.

Also curious how many mom's who have v-birthed without previous uterine scars were told they were at risk for rupture? Because, while an infintismal (sp?) risk, uterine ruptures in unscarred uteruses, believe it or not, have a lot deadlier consequences to mom, baby and uterus than in scarred uteruses. Ironic, isn't it?

LisaG

[Greaseball]

I think anytime a doctor tells you your pelvis is too small, deformed, or has anything wrong with it whatsoever, get it confirmed by a professional - a midwife.

[Peppermint]

Re: Re: C-section Baby

Originally posted by jess7396
I have a deformed pelvis, I have known since my very first pelvic exam that I would never deliver a baby vaginally, this has been confirmed by numerous OBs and midwives, as well as by an attempt to deliver vaginally, b/c I didn't like being told I couldn't.

As I said, *I* have had this confirmed, it is not that I have been lied to, it is a deformity, most likely linked to my scoliosis, but that is neither here nor there. Also, my OBs have all been very willing to be with me to attempt labor and delivery, b/c they knew what it meant to me to "know for sure", very supportive, not at all like many of the OBs described by others (who push c-sections).

I am not coming on here trying to be "defensive" of my c-births, I am just pointing out that when one seeks to educate others, they must take the time to listen, and be careful about making assumptions, esp. assuming that someone who has a c-section is ignorant about it, while that may often be the case, it is not always, and I think people should choose their words carefully when trying to convince/educate others.

[Juice23]

Unfortunately, I think everyone missed my point. I am NOT making any assumptions about whether anyone's personal reasons for having c-sections are right or wrong. Based on some of the posts I have read on the other threads, it is apparent to me that some of the women here (and I am not singling anyone out-they are just women who have posted) have made decisions based on what their docs have told them, seem to be unhappy about it, but don't know what else to do about it, except to go along with what their docs say in the future. It is impossible for any one of us to consider every angle when writing a post on this board. If we did, we would never actually get anything posted b/c we would constantly be typing new things.

Anyway, back to my original point in my original post. The POINT is that when making your decisions on how to deliver-whether by C-section or Vaginally (whichever is best for you, depending on your personal circumstances) DO NOT just consider how it will affect YOU. Also consider how it mioght affect your BABY b/c your choices are affecting two, three, four, etc. people. You choices now have long lasting effects on your child. And THIS is what we should be concerned about here, not whether a c-section is right b/c of your circumstances.

Furthermore, if you do have a c-section, consider that the needs of your child may be greater and build in support for that. Obviously, sometimes, c-section will be necessary, sometimes it is unavoidable, but make sure your child's needs are met just the same as yours are being met.

[its_our_family]

Originally posted by Juice23

Anyway, back to my original point in my original post. The POINT is that when making your decisions on how to deliver-whether by C-section or Vaginally (whichever is best for you, depending on your personal circumstances) DO NOT just consider how it will affect YOU. Also consider how it mioght affect your BABY b/c your choices are affecting two, three, four, etc. people. You choices now have long lasting effects on your child. And THIS is what we should be concerned about here, not whether a c-section is right b/c of your circumstances.

Furthermore, if you do have a c-section, consider that the needs of your child may be greater and build in support for that. Obviously, sometimes, c-section will be necessary, sometimes it is unavoidable, but make sure your child's needs are met just the same as yours are being met.

Are you talking immediate needs, like after birth. But over all growing up needs?

Because that is the point of attachment parenting. To give your child all the support they need in every aspect of life. So maybe the issue isn't necessarily the birth but in parenting choices.

[its_our_family]

Oops....double post....

[its_our_family]

ooops...third post?

[Juice23]

Support directly after birth and throughout life. My mom did attachment parenting with me, but my emotional scars were due to my c-section and that feeling of abandonment that arose from being "ripped" from my mother's body/uterus.

I posted my original post to give women a view of what emotional issues babies often go through due to the traumas of birth-vaginal and c-section. I merely wanted to allow women to see what can happen emotionally for a baby (both immediate and over a lifetime) based on what choices the mom makes NOW.