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C-Section Baby - Page 3

post #41 of 51
Right now I say I'd go for it, but if I were truly there I doubt I could make myself do it. I believe in putting oneself through extreme suffering to save a child's life, but I don't know how I could make myself do it...the women in the book were strapped down. One woman successfully sued her doctor. The nurses were telling the doctor that the patient wasn't under, and the doctor refused to believe them. The anesthesiologist was standing right there, telling everyone that the patient already had enough drugs. The doctor even yelled at the patient to "stop breathing like that!" Finally, after the surgery, the anesthesiologist put her to sleep!

It's a story that makes me cry each time I read it.
post #42 of 51
Natural childbirth isn't always taking mothers into consideration and they arent always wonderful. I have read enough of these forums like mothering and on AOL, not to mention books that describe some pretty horrific horrible vaginal births, natural ones at home too. Traumatic for mom and baby. It can happen in any scenario. I am not anti-epidural for this reason. (I wouldnt say I am pro epi either for the record)

Also in emergency situations mom isnt always considered, its thinking -- lets get this baby out before it dies. One of my dearest friends had a necessary csection three months ago. She had planned a natural childbirth. When her water broke we were so happy, she wanted to wait to go to the hospital, her husband insisted they go to the hospital. So they went. We chatted on the phone after she got there. The next call I got I was floored. My friend had an emergency csection. She had a footling breech baby, the heel coming out of a partially dilated cervix and then with some contractions while they were preparing her for a regular csection she got a prolapse cord. She was knocked out cold and cut. When she woke up she didnt even realize she had had the baby.
But her baby is alive! and that in the end is what is important.
post #43 of 51
Greaseball from what I was told they had to bring in additional people to hold down my legs. My arms were strapped down. One nurse told my sister that the other laboring patients could hear me screaming and cussing. The whole time I was screaming I could feel them and I was in paid. One of the doctors kept asking me are you sure its pain? I said "F-ing bastard, I feel your GD hands in my body pushing my damn guts back in". I was hacked up. I would do it again to have my daughter but there was a reason my second child was adopted and we didnt pursue infertility treatment.
post #44 of 51
Didn't they even try to put you to sleep? If it was a true emergency I would want to forget all about being awake to see the baby. Maybe even if it was planned, I'd still just rather be asleep. I hear it's much worse to recover from spinal or epidural anesthesia, and that with an epidural you are more likely to feel some of the surgery.

Never had any surgery though, so I wouldn't know.

Glad it worked out for you, though it's too bad it had to hurt.
post #45 of 51
There is a higher risk of GA than a spinal or epidural during childbirth. Actually more death occurs and other complications. I was never offered to be put to sleep, its not something I would have opted for. Once they administered the spinal, they believe it will only affect from up under your breasts down and it only last for 45minutes to an hour. My spinal did not do right, it moved into my chest and was as high as my shoulders. Because of this I could not be put under and because they remove the cath I was not able to recieve anymore pain relief into my back. Had I had an epidural -- this could have been done. This is why I opted for an epidural the second time around.

My csection truly was an emergency. I already had the cath in my back to administer the spinal when the chit hit the fan or else I would have been knocked out. Which I would have preferred for that csection.
post #46 of 51
Wow, passion strikes again here at MDC. In reading the latests posts a lot of thoughts are traveling through my head. I'll do my best to make them coherent .

My personal beliefs about pregnancy and birth - what goes on during them can have tremendous impact on the psyche of the infant. Lucysmama mentioned Ghosts in the Nursery. That's an eye opener for sure!

I do believe that vaginal birth is the ideal in a perfect world that supports women's connection to their bodies, women's knowledge of their bodies, women's wisdom, honors and trusts women's ability to pass through the journey of labor and birth in each women's unique way. In a world that is not complicated by anatomical abnormalities such as funky uteruses or babies with fragile bones, etc. (and yes I do believe the "your pelvis is too small/your baby is too big" line is waaayy overused - how about your doctor/midwife is out of their comfort zone and doesn't know how to help you being used instead?). I believe that c-sections are overused. I believe that a lot doctors are motivated by politics, fear, the almighty clock, attorneys and money. I believe that many mother's fall into the trap of fear that doctor's weave. I believe that women are far more strong, capable and wise than we give ourselves credit for. I believe that there absolutely are times when c-sections are necessary. I believe that there are more unnecessary c-sections than necessary.

I know that I, were I a mother, would want to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I had made the best possible decisions for my baby and myself regarding pregnancy and birth. I would not want to be told that I "should've" done something different. I would want to be supported for the decisions that I made. And yet. At what point can we honor the decisions we made at the time, with the knowledge we had at the time, respect that, and still hold space for the possibility that we may know something different this time around that would result in making different choices should we be faced with the same situation? And still know that we did the very best we could under whatever circumstances.

It saddens me to no end to hear stories of traumatic births - vaginal OR c-section. To hear of women that are so traumatized by their previous experiences that they would rather not have another child. I personally know women who have been through this. It is tragic to me. It is a crime against women that we should be anything less than fully supported, informed and cared for during this most sacred time of giving birth. And it saddens me that so many women have lost the story of birth. That we have allowed this to happen. That we have given away our power to the shrine of modern medicine. Where is the balance?

Thank goodness there is also the swing of the pendulum to reclaiming our power. To educating ourselves, to connecting to our inner knowing, to aknowledging our fear and feeling beyond it. To integrating the best of western medicine with the wisdom of women. Does that mean only vaginal births will be done? No, of course not. Does that mean c-sections will be done more humanely, with more consciousness of the impact of the event on both mother and child? I hope so, and I am greately encouraged by stories that reflect this. Does this mean vaginal births will be done more humanely, looking at what is important for the mother and child rather than the comfort of the doctor/midwife? I hope so, and again am encouraged by stories that reflect this.

In regards to the Scandinavian study. I think it is extremely important that we realize that it was not limited to c-section babies and is not saying there's an increase in suicide among c-section babies. The method of suicide is what's being looked at not the likelihood of suicide. I'm sure we all know vaginally birthed people who committed suicide. Let's not create another guilt wagon for people to get on over their births.

And last, but certainly not least, I'd like to comment on Juice23's original post. While I certainly cannot speak for her, I have had the privledge of discussing this topic at length with her because we are personal friends. In her situation, her mother was induced because it was assumed she was post-date, when it showed after the fact that the doctors were grossly wrong in that assumption. A failed induction led to a c-section with general anesthesia which meant that there was no contact between mother and daughter for hours. Do I believe that being forced from your home, from all that you'd known for 8 1/2 months, "welcomed" into a cold brightly lit world by strangers, whom however kind and nice could not possibly be any replacement for your mother, and left by yourself for hours did not have an impact on how you perceived the world? Please tell me how it could NOT. Do I believe there's a way to integrate and move forward with this experience? Absolutely. As with any traumatic experience that we have in life. But how can you say that other experiences of an infant such as circumcision, illness, crying it out, etc., etc., can be traumatic (and research shows these have a negative effect on the chemical cocktail of our bodies that has an impact on the wiring of our brains) and say that our births don't have this impact?!

No, we don't all get our "ideal" births - for a variety of reasons, no matter how educated, prepared, healthy, strong, etc. The outcome of our births is only partially in our hands. And the more I think about all the outside influences on women's births, the more my head spins. But aknowledging the impact of our births on ourselves and our children can go a long way towards healing and mending the bumps in the road.

I don't understand why we tend to buy more into doctor fear than into other women's experiences. I don't understand why women elect to have c-sections out of schedule convenience or out of fear of saggy vaginas. The hoopla of elective c-sections as a valid option for non-medical reasons really astonishes me. Having recovered from abdominal, uterine surgery recently I can only imagine the additional challenges being post-partum and trying to be present for my infant would have posed to my recovery. It was challenging enough as it was.

Afterwards my surgeon said I absolutely must have a c-section. Well, you can bet for a number of reasons I did my own research. Funny thing is, for all the women who've had my surgery (and granted, it fortunately isn't all that common) for those who were "allowed" to birth vaginally, there are no documented uterine ruptures. Now explain to me why physician "theory" outweighs documented, scientific real life experience? Explain to me why my doc is willing to have my undergo, yet again, major abdominal surgery, that will only put me at increased risk for uterine rupture? So yes, I'm extremely skeptical of doctor's advice. I had an awesome surgeon, he did a fabulous job, I am incredibly grateful to have found him. But in the end, my birth choices will not be made based on his recommendation.

I guess that's what I wish for all women - take in your doctor's information, get other opinions, read, read, read, talk to other women, learn from their experiences and then when it's all said and done go inside, get quiet with yourself and discover what your truth is. Obviously that's not something that's as possible in an emergency situation. But hopefully we'll have made that connection along the way before an emergency arises.

I know I've written a book, so will try to sum up. Whether our children enter the world vaginally or via c-section may it be done respectfully, may the sacredness of birth be honored, may fear be aknowledged but not overblown, may we aknowledge the impact of our choices on ourselves and our children, and may women take back their births.

peace,
LisaG
post #47 of 51
Well put, LisaG

I don't know if this was a rhetorical question or not, but you asked why women tend to buy more into doctor fear than other women's experiences. An excellent question.

In my situation, it was so very difficult to see thtough the bullsh*t that the doctor was piling on top of me. Doctors know how to play into a laboring woman's inherent vunerability and use that to their advantage. In my case it was, "We can section you now or wait until it is a true emergency and your baby's life is at stake." I was paralyzed by those words...most mothers would be. Nobody should ever speak to a laboring woman in such a manner! I was so paralyzed, in fact - I couldn't even stop to consider if what he was saying was inevitable and true. I didn't realize that the baby showed no signs of distress, that I was absolutely fine, if naturally tired.

Then came another blow: "If you were my daughter, I would section you for your safety and your baby's safety."

I was educated, informed, no shrinking violet, but when a doctor starts playing that card- the whole, "We-are-going-to-save-you-or-your-baby-will-die-and-it-will-be-your-fault" card, it is *so* hard to remember all you have learned about birthing, labor, cesareans. You are being threatened with a dead child.

Tragic? Yes. Manipulative? Yes. Uncommon? No. * But that does not mean that these women are uneducated or uninformed. It means they are human, and reacted emotionally to the threats of bullies. * Unless you have been in this situation before, I really feel you can't know what I am talking about. It is a long, guilt-ridden, heavy road to walk. I might have been bullied, but I was never misinformed about cesarean, birthing, hospital beaurocracy, etc. I'm not perfect, and I don't deserve to be judged for that.

LisaG, I agree with most everything that you said. I don't know about other posters, but I was never trying to impune or dispute the OP's issues surrrounding birth. Again, I think why this thread took off heatedly is due to the overgeneralization of we MDC c/sec birthers as misinformed.



Juice, I hope you can come to terms with your experiences someday.
post #48 of 51
My half-sister was born 3 mos early by c-section. She had to make up those 3 months in the NICU. She did not suffer abandonment issues, and I believe it was because she was never abandoned - her mother insisted on staying in the hospital the entire time, even though she did not need any more treatment. She had a job, and another young child, but stayed anyway.

I think the kind of care the mother is able to provide is a factor. If I am in pain and exhausted and afraid my guts are going to spill out, I'm not going to be as effective. I think all moms should have help available if they decide they need it. Some moms feel fine after a few days post surgery, but some are in pain for a long time and have no support.
post #49 of 51
Quote:
Doctors know how to play into a laboring woman's inherent vunerability and use that to their advantage. In my case it was, "We can section you now or wait until it is a true emergency and your baby's life is at stake." I was paralyzed by those words...most mothers would be. Nobody should ever speak to a laboring woman in such a manner! I was so paralyzed, in fact - I couldn't even stop to consider if what he was saying was inevitable and true. I didn't realize that the baby showed no signs of distress, that I was absolutely fine, if naturally tired.
Absolutely!!!!! I think it would be next to immpossible to hear words like that and find the strength/courage/ability to swim against that tide. It goes against our very nature to be told we/our baby are at risk, here's what you MUST do, and find the state of mind to stay calm and ask questions in the middle of labor no less?!?! Which has led me to my personal conclusion that labor and birth is usually best done OUT of the hospital , with someone (even if that's only yourself - if that's what works for you) who is really comfortable being with a laboring woman. I think it's really a rare find to have a hospital and doctor who can truly support labor and birth in its multifaceted form.

For me, the uneducated and uninformed piece seems to jump out at me more in the case of elected repeat c/s or in elected non-emergency first c/s (like in the case of a certain celebrity who planned on having an elected c/s because it would be too inconvenient for her husband's work schedule ). I know I'm not willing to undergo that trauma to my body for my husband's schedule! And yet somehow that all gets overlooked as long as the baby arrives in one piece.

Uneducated/uninformed certainly aren't always the right words. More often than not, it's lack of support and scared into by fear spouting docs. Or scared into by previous experience. I can't begin to imagine (and hope I don't ever have to) the courage it would take to be willing to attempt a VBAC after a traumatic birth. To be willing to trust the process again. And I can certainly understand women choosing to make the best of a repeat c/s rather than journeying the unknown of a VBAC. But it does sadden me that there's so much fear and so little support surrounding most birthing women.

Here's to changing that one birth at a time!

LisaG
post #50 of 51
Lisa G great posting. Are you on the Mullerian Anomalies Group on yahoo? If so, I am there in lurkdom.

Kim
post #51 of 51
Hi Kim ,

The mullerian anomaly group was a total life-saver for me this spring/summer when I was first diagnosed . Thank goodness for that group! I stop by on occasion to catch up, but there's so many groups, so little time these days .

Take care,
LisaG
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