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Re-lactation, Induced Lactation and Adoptive Nursing Tribe

post #1 of 308
8/18/08 at 4:26pm
Thread Starter 
Anyone else? I'm inducing lactation to nurse my adopted babe. I've been on protocol since May. Im just waiting now for our baby to come to us. Im pumping 8 times a day and I have milk! I cant get any top collect with the pump but hand expressing is a big sticky milky mess. lol. I cant wait for a baby to take over!

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post #2 of 308
8/18/08 at 9:31pm
I induced last fall for my adopted DD. Still nursing her and loving it. Congrats on making milk. So exciting!
post #3 of 308
8/19/08 at 10:34am
In keeping with the FYT Guidelines, I am moving this to Breastfeeding Challenges where other mothers who are inducing lactation are more likely to find it:
Quote:
Though Finding Your Tribe was originally opened to help parents find each other based on their location we have welcomed tribe threads for parents of a like-minded path to meet and chit chat with one another. However, such threads should not take a focus of discussion for a topic that is hosted in an existing forum at MDC.

A natural course of chit chat discussion might carry you into discussing your daily lives and sharing events and struggles. But focused discussion of a parenting topic, a breastfeeding issue or problem, an activist or political issue, a religious concern or belief, just to name a few, should go to the appropriate forum for discussion with the larger MDC community. If you have any question in this regard feel free to check with the moderators before posting. Should you post or thread not be appropriate for FYT on this basis it may be moved to the appropriate forum.
post #4 of 308
8/19/08 at 10:49am
Thread Starter 
Thank you for moving the thread.


I am a sticky mess. lol. This is good but bad too. I cant get any milk by pumping. I manually express, and I have milk. I ordered larger breast shields, but I don't think size of breast shields is my problem. I was so sore when I woke up this morning. I didn't pump last night, I just did a quick over the sink 3 minute squirt. It's not like I have a lot of milk right now, and I know a baby would solve the problem. I have not enough to pump and too much to hand express. I have one spray from each side then lots of hefty drops. What do I do? My shields are sticky after pumping. None of the milk goes into the bottle- and it's not enough - I have a red spot on each breast from my thumb. I have to rinse my pump after each session now. I think I'll get some baby wipes to solve that issue. Im just in transition right? The milk will start collecting in the chamber this week? Im 3 weeks into pumping now.
post #5 of 308
8/19/08 at 5:37pm
Thread Starter 
Sticky for great tips on Relactating and Inducing Lactationhttp://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=969721
post #6 of 308
8/20/08 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by azedazobollis View Post
azedazobollis,
The links to these resources change often; generally you can find a current link if you google the exact title and the source of the title, or better yet if you use a meta search engine such as Dogpile or Surfwax (a meta search engine searches more than one site at once and most of them include "google").. If anyone needs help locating a current link for a particular article please PM me.

The list itelf can be overwhelming. For those that go into information overload just looking at it my suggestion is that you take a relaxed approach rather than look at it as a do or die mission. Try lots of skin to skin cuddling, baby wearing, co-sleeping, bathing with baby, etc., etc., etc.

Keep in mind that there are usually two components with relactation. The obvious one is mom's supply. For supply issues in general check out the supply "sticky" at the top of this BF'ing Challenges forum.

The other component is baby's nursing skills. The bonding, cuddling, etc. probably stimulates mom's milk production hormones. Any suckling further stimulates production and gives DC a chance to practice their nursing skills. Therefore the more opportunities DC has to "help themselves" in a relaxed, no pressure atmosphere, the better. Co-sleeping is ideal since your prolactin levels are higher overnight; and DC is less likely to be hungry and therefore less likely to be frustrated if they aren't getting a lot of milk for their efforts. Bathing together is often described as "re-birthing" in relactation literature and may be ideal for giving DC a chance to re-discover the nursing instinct; as opposed to having to merely learning a complicated set of nursing skills.

There are some obvious safety issues with co-sleeping and bathing together (re-birthing). There is a Kellymom article titled something along the lines of "The Family Bed" which includes safety tips for co-sleeping. Some articles will suggest having another adult nearby when bathing with baby. This is especially important if warm baths make you sleepy.

I am particularly intrigued by the whole concept of rebirthing. There have been a couple of interesing anecdotes, not all of them directly related to relactation, that tend to suggest that a warm bath is especially conducive to a relaxed, playful, bonding experience.

I wish I could link one heart warming story from a mom whose husband coerced her into premature weaning at about 3 months. Months and months later she was taking a bath with her DC and she stretched towards mom and and latched on ... whether the womblike environment re-booted her instincts or whether she was just playing around, that put her on the road to relactation.

Anywhoo. I hope I don't come across as some sort of know it all. I'm not speaking from personal experience here but I have had my share of supply issues due to Working and Pumping. In the process of researching my problems I came across a lot of info on this topic.

Again, if anyone needs a current link on a particular article please feel free to PM me.

~Cath
post #7 of 308
8/20/08 at 11:52am
Thread Starter 
I hope more women inducing lactation wander in here to post. I feel like Im making it my personal thread....

My milk is really picking up- Im getting so much milk into the chamber while pumping, but nothing going down into the bottle- YET. A few more days- or next week. My hormones are feeling similar to how I feel days after birthing. But Im longing for my baby. I am on super mamma mode. I unfortunately have a 3 year year old that doesn't prefer to cuddle often, but Im snatching her up whenever I get the chance.
post #8 of 308
8/21/08 at 1:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by azedazobollis View Post
I hope more women inducing lactation wander in here to post. I feel like Im making it my personal thread....

...
azedazobollis,
I posted to your earlier thread in the Questions and Suggestions forum.

I am hoping to put a rough draft for a Relactation / Induced Lactation thread "sticky" in the near future to complement this thread.

Unfortunately, in my observation, threads on the most challenging BF'ing Challenges seem to fizzle out. I'm guessing that's because those Moms are busy, busy, busy, just trying to keep things together. But I would encourage you to keep posting and bumping this thread if only to keep us current on your progress. Ideally as new moms come along they will get directed to this existing thread and perhaps it will take hold where other threads on this topic haven't in the past.

Keep up the good work. I'm really pulling for you and your DC.
~Cath
post #9 of 308
8/21/08 at 9:24am
Thought I would jump in. We are in the process of doing our paperwork to adopt an infant. I suspect that the paperwork will be done in the next 6 weeks. The adoption agency gives an approximate 6 month wait after that. I nursed 3 biological children. The last one was 5 years ago. I orderd an electric double breast pump and would like to start relactation without hormones. Any experience with that anyone??? Is it too soon to start pumping. I was going to start taking fenugreek and blessed thistle.
post #10 of 308
8/22/08 at 8:57am
Thread Starter 
Ive been pumping for almost 4 weeks (Tuesday) now- 8-10 times a day. I learned some things while on this journey. I am now using the lowest suction on my Medela Advance. I use the let down cycle throughout my pumping. I was using a higher setting, but it was painful and I wasnt getting milk out. My LC told me I may be constricting the ducts so that the milk wasnt coming. So, this has been working better. I still have the issue of not pumping effectively, but Im getting to my goal of milk making it to the bottles. I have sprays now, not just drops, and sprays collect on the sides of the bottles. I can manually express much more. I think Im getting thrush..... I have two red spots on each breast, from my thumbs that are itchy. I have some cream to use and I'll start up on my probiotics. I dont eat sugar so that will help too.

Rememberjoy, I've been through this protocol with and without yasmin (birthcontrol pill). The birth control pill- specifically this hormone prepares the breasts and mimics a pregnancy. I took yasmin for 12 weeks straight this time. Last time, I didnt take it because my birth child had recently weaned. Of course it's possible to lactate without hormones, I think it helped me this time. Pumping for 6 months, is this something that would fit into your schedule? Toward the end of your wait, you could start pumping more often to mimic a baby's "schedule."


CathMac- Thank you for putting your time into this!!! I soooo appreciate your input and information!!!
post #11 of 308
8/22/08 at 3:50pm

Induction without drugs??

I'm thinking this is where I was sent.

My DP and I both want to nurse when one of us finally manages to get preg. (hopefully in 6-8 months). BUT I don't want either of us to have to take any sort of drug/medication/herbs if it's possible to induce without them. If an external intervention is required, I want it to be the cheepest and least invasive (I don't want to have to fight the doc's to get dom. and/or birth control, especially since b/c causes extreme weight gain in my (wheelchair using) partner, and weight is already an issue she's -ok, we're- fighting).
I asked on the breastfeeding forum and I got told several times to take b/c and domperidone, but again, I don't want to use drugs if it's at all possible...

So, anyone know how to induce without drugs?
post #12 of 308
8/22/08 at 4:27pm
Thread Starter 
Want2bMoms, Congrats on your upcoming pregnancy! I love the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility, you and your partner might find it helpful, but in the meantime, this is a thread for Inducing Lactation, so I wont stray from the topic.

Absolutely you can make milk without the hormones- maybe even without the herbs. My friends both breastfed their baby nine years ago and she did not use any type of hormones or herbs. She used an SNS supplementer with her wife's pumped milk when she was at work. She wasnt able to completely feed K's needs, but Mom D did feel she was producing at least some milk a month into feeding. I also have read many articles and posts about women who had never gotten pregnant were able to produce milk. Personally, I believe a mom who's never been pregnant has a very important advantage over a woman who has birthed and nursed. The woman who dedicates and believes in the goal and doesnt have anything to compare expects to meet her goals. I keep reading posts and stories with them pumping 10-24 oz. a day before they even get the baby- geez, I havent ever pumped that in a week and Ive had 3 birth children and seem to be at the moment having an intense affair with my breast pump.

About the weight gain, after my 3rd child, I lost almost 100 lbs. I had my gallbladder out, joined weight watchers and got through some PPD with meds. Then we decided to adopt. I went through protocol without hormones but also felt I had the license to freely eat again since I was skinny... I gained 30 lbs and blamed it on the domperidone and fenugreek. This time, not having lost the weight (180 lbs) I decided to go on a low carb diet (because its better for my PCOS and Im already mostly gluten free), I am now 170. Im eating much healthier and on the pill, herbs, supplements and metformin (PCOS) which Ill stop the metformin when I have a baby to feed.

I buy domperidone- no script required through inhousepharmacy 600 tablets for $80 shipping included. It comes in about 10 days. Inducing lactation requires one to take about 240 tablets a month. I buy herbs from vitacost. A hospital grade double pump is recommended. Then there's oatmeal- I eat that twice a day. Oatmeal is a galactagogue.

Then the pumping, I have some pics of baby's nursing and I try to watch something with baby's on TV during some of my pumping sessions. Even though TLC's baby story makes me cranky sometimes. I believe in visualization. I close my eyes and feel the milk coming out into the bottle dripping down, I create the whole experience for myself. Manifestation.
post #13 of 308
8/22/08 at 5:13pm
thank you!!
post #14 of 308
8/23/08 at 2:11pm
Well, I got my Medela breast pump yesterday and I started pumping today. I also ordered domperidone from inhousepharmacy and mothers milk special blend tincture. I am very excited.

azedazobollis Thanks for the advice. I have a strong feeling that our adoption will go quickly. Plus I like to be prepared and I figure the more I can pump the more I can store up for the baby. That way i won't have to use as much formula. Good job on your pumping. I can tell you are dedicated.

want2bmoms Welcome and good luck.
post #15 of 308
8/24/08 at 5:38pm
Oooh! So fun!

We are expecting our baby girl in October (transracial,domestic, open adoption) and I'm gearing up to start relactating now.

This thread is super helpful!

I also have a friend that is a LC who sent me two great links that I'll add at the bottom.

It's interesting that the sites suggest birth control pills (Yasmin for 30-60 days nonstop) as well as domperidone. It just so happens that (very sadly) we have suffered a miscarriage, and I'm wondering if this will help trigger milk production like the bc pills would have done? (have no idea..just wondering if this is the 'reason' for our surprise pregnancy and then our sad loss).

either way-I'm going to start pumping this week (pump n' style that's, like, SIX years old, LOL). I was the queen o' milk with my other two (bio) children (hence, the screen name) and my goal is to not need supplementation.

The idea of rebirthing is FABULOUS! I'm so excited to do this! We will receive Baby Girl straight from the hospital at 48 hours, and I plan to start a supplementation system right away and just nurse, nurse, nurse. Hoping those 2 days in the hospital with bottles and paci's won't cause too much of a hurdle.

It's great to see others here that are waiting for their babies. I hope you get 'the call' soon!

Here are the links:

Accelerated Protocol from Ask Lenore (suggested to me because we have 7 weeks)

and, as always, an awesome KellyMom page
post #16 of 308
8/24/08 at 8:35pm
azedazobollis --
Hale says metformin is safe during breastfeeding and it's actually shown to increase supplies of women with PCOS. (I'm a PCOSer too!)

Good luck with your relactation and the adoption.
post #17 of 308
8/26/08 at 9:25am
Thread Starter 
Mom2Haley- Thank you! I have an old Hale book, I didnt even look it up, but I'll keep on with the metformin then!

It's been 4 weeks of pumping now. Milk is going into the bottle part of the pump, but Im not able to pump all the milk that's in the breast. I wake up engorged. I think only a baby can take over. Im still waiting for my soft breast shields to arrive hoping that will help. My sprays are generous, Im feeling successful!
post #18 of 308
8/27/08 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by azedazobollis View Post
My sprays are generous, Im feeling successful!
azedazobollis,
Congrats.

I have submitted a proposed draft for an Adoptive/Induced Lactation and Re-Lactation "sticky". There were two things I wanted to clear with the Mods before submitting. Otherwise I would post it here now.

However, here is the updated list of resources with current, active links. Note especially "Phoebe's Journey". I have included an excerpt to give a sample of what it covers. I am hoping it will provide moral support for anyone that might not be able to hunt the article down when the link goes dead again, as it inevitably will.

Good luck and god bless to all of you and your very lucky babies.
~Cath

La Leche League article: Phoebe's Journey (re: a Mom that re-lactated for a 10 1/2 month adopted Chinese girl)
http://www.llli.org/NB/NBJulAug06p166.html
I was overjoyed when at 19 months of age she nursed for the first time while drifting off to sleep. A few weeks later she took the breast while awake, again for comfort. That was a big day for us! I encouraged her by smiling at her and saying things like, "Isn't Mommy's milk good?" How delightful when she nodded in response, grinning.


The Protocols for Induced Lactation A Guide for Maximizing Breastmilk Production
http://mamadearest.ca/en/info/newman...-lactation.htm
Lenore contacted Dr. Newman as soon as she learned that her son was on the way, and together they set upon a journey that enabled Lenore to successfully breastfeed her son, who was born 2 months prematurely, from his second day of life. Lenore was able, with Dr. Newman's help, to bring in an astonishing 32 oz per day without a pregnancy. Dr. Newman published the protocol that Lenore followed in a book he published in 2000. Ask Lenore: The Protocols for Induced Lactation A Guide for Maximizing Breastmilk Production

Alternate source for much of the info on the site above: The Protocols for Induced Lactation
A Guide for Maximizing Breastmilk Productionhttp://www.asklenore.info/breastfeed...protocols.html
Dr. Jack Newman – The Birth Den
http://www.thebirthden.com/Newman.html
Numerous articles and video clips. Some in multiple languages.

I would like to resume breastfeeding after an interruption. How do I relactate?
http://www.llli.org/FAQ/relactation.html

LLL Relactation and Induced Lactation Forum
http://www.llleus.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=24

Adoptive Breastfeeding & Relactation
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/adopt/index.html

Relactation and Adoptive Breastfeeding: The Basics
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/relactation.html

Help -- My Baby Won't Nurse!
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/...to-breast.html

Re-Birthing: Help For Latch On Problems
http://www.lactationconsultant.info/rebirth.html

When a Baby Refuses to Nurse
http://www.mobimotherhood.org/MM/article-refusal.aspx

Helping a Mother with a Baby Who Is Reluctant to Nurse
http://www.llli.org/llleaderweb/LV/LVOctNov99p99.html
post #19 of 308
8/30/08 at 3:33pm

Looking for adoptive nursing success stories

Someone referred me to this thread so I am posting here as well.

I am tandem nursing my 32 month bio-son. I have been pumping for 28 months and taking dom for about 3 or 4 months. I think Canadian dom is better than other online sources.

We got "the" call Aug. 10 about a just born baby. I started nursing her at 6 hours of age. She did great. No sore nipples here!

She was up to birth weight before 2 weeks (when they want them to have regained birthweight.) She has gained 9 ounces in the last 6 days. (4 to 8 a week is desired.)

I only supplement one or two ounces of frozen milk a day.

It would seem all is well, but I know someone who was not able to make a full supply of milk for her adopted babies and she keeps being a Debbie Downer. I get so upset after I talk with her.

Aside from stopping talking to her, I emailed Jack Newman. He says to increase the domperidone, continue tandem nursing, and feels positive I could get a full supply.

We all know a full supply isn't the most important part of adoptive nursing, but it sure ain't bad either.

I'd love stories from people who were successful at adoptive nursing. I've read a few from time to time, but I'd love more. I'm sure others would love to hear the good stories too.

I've cross posted in bf challenges and adoption.
post #20 of 308
8/31/08 at 2:38pm
For anyone interested. Here's a book on increasing milk supply. It is due out in December:

http://www.makingmoremilk.org
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