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Spanking in schools, why is this still allowed? - Page 4

post #61 of 83
8/26/08 at 9:14am
Yet another reason why I'm not considering the US a safe place for my children to grow up.
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post #62 of 83
8/31/08 at 10:02am
There is a big difference between saying "my kid was paddled and punished and I think it is great" and saying "while not in my care my child was paddled and punished, and then she didn't repeat the offending behavior." The second is just a statement of fact. An observation. Not endorsement of anything.

I think some of you came down way too hard on that poster.
post #63 of 83
8/31/08 at 10:27am
My first year of teaching, I (naively) signed a contract with a district that allowed this. When I found out, I was horrified. I had little support from staff members and parents for my beliefs, which was hard as a first year teacher. But-I was able to bond with my students so well and I really earned their trust.

As a teacher, I am a firm believer that school MUST be a safe place-no matter what. How can we show children that school is a safe place if this is allowed? We can't.
post #64 of 83
8/31/08 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Lilya View Post
There is a big difference between saying "my kid was paddled and punished and I think it is great" and saying "while not in my care my child was paddled and punished, and then she didn't repeat the offending behavior." The second is just a statement of fact. An observation. Not endorsement of anything.

I think some of you came down way too hard on that poster.
It's pretty hard to tell someone's intent online. It didn't seem like an observation to me. It seemed like, "hey look, paddling worked." If that's not an endorsement, what is? Why even mention that it worked unless you are ok with it? In fact, many women have stated that spanking works temporarily, but that's only because the child becomes too afraid to act up. Not a good thing. So even the fact that it "worked" doesn't excuse the act. There are other, better ways, to improve behavior.

Someone who truly isn't ok with it would have been like "my school paddled my child once and I was horrified." They would have felt horrified no matter what the result. Most of the people that I've seen here (including myself) think any kind of spanking is outright abuse.
post #65 of 83
8/31/08 at 12:36pm
I am in Ohio where paddling is legal in schools, but the district i teach in (4th largest in the state, very low socio-economic district) it is banned. for those of you in states where it is still legal check with your local district to see what their policy is as many individual districts have banned corporal punishment despite what is "allowed" by the state
post #66 of 83
8/31/08 at 2:23pm
I find this and all the other horrific stories absolutely abhorrent - I cannot understand it, however, I used to go in and sing in my dd's pre-school class (we're in france - so things are different) but anyway after the teacher, assistant and helper for the autistic boy got used to me I saw things no parent should ever see, the worst was when the autistic boy was having a difficult moment and they locked him in a cupboard with no light and let him kick and scream - he had to learn, they said, very proud of their 'technique', I told them that if anyone did that in my country they would loose their jobs, I informed the director and the parents, I gave them information on a 'congres' which they could go to and be informed as to how to teach, anyway the little boy didn't come back this year - needless to say really. What surprised me the most was that my dd's teacher had just commented a few weeks earlier so say how impressed she was with dd when this little boy had the same difficult period during the day and dd sat with him and spoke to him and reassured him saying that she understood and managed to calm him down completely in fact it moved the teacher to tears, so why couldn't she take that on? Anyway I went completely OT there - I apologise, anyway I am appalled that this is still going on and will fight corporal punishment tooth and nail.
post #67 of 83
8/31/08 at 3:23pm
My son went to a small private school the last two years. There was a discipline statement that specifically said spanking would not occur. Imagine my surprise when I had to sign a form opting out of spanking when we made the switch to public school this year! I was really upset. The form specifically stated that most parents in the school district preferred spanking to suspension. a) they see nothing wrong with it and b) suspension means they have to go to the trouble to take off work or find alternate child care for their child.

Unfortunately, I live in one of the states that hit over 20000 children last school year.
post #68 of 83
8/31/08 at 4:05pm
Now I am wondering if they schools are allowed to spank in Canada since I am Canadian...I cant seem to have any info on it. I am definitely NOT ok with schools doing that......

I know when I was about 6 being hit on the hand with a ruler but that was years ago...how many I will not say......
post #69 of 83
8/31/08 at 4:16pm
According to the Natural Child Project....spanking is also allowable in Canada. I am speechless. This is simply disgusting. If my child were EVER to be hit at school I honestly do not know what I would do. All this two days before her first day of school. SHIT

Section 43 of the Criminal Code of Canada
Protection of Persons in Authority, Correction of Child by Force:

"Every schoolteacher, parent or person standing In the place of a parent is justified in using force by way of correction toward a pupil or child, as the case may be, who is under his care, if the force does not exceed what is reasonable under the circumstances. R.S.C., 1985, C-46. "
post #70 of 83
8/31/08 at 5:16pm
Wasn't this recently changed, removing this "right"?
post #71 of 83
8/31/08 at 5:22pm
Quote:
Corporal punishment is banned in 106 countries including Canada, where it was outlawed in 2004.
From that Globe & Mail article.
post #72 of 83
8/31/08 at 5:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovin'leo View Post
From that Globe & Mail article.
Which Globe and Mail article?
post #73 of 83
8/31/08 at 6:03pm
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...4&postcount=29
post #74 of 83
8/31/08 at 6:42pm
In January 2004, the Supreme Court of Canada decided that:

* schoolteachers may no longer use section 43 to justify physical punishment
* parents and persons acting in the place of parents may use physical punishment, but subject to the following conditions:
o the child is between 2 and 12 years of age,
o the child is capable of learning from the punishment,
o the force is minor and of a transitory and trifling nature,
o the punishment does not involve objects or blows or slaps to the head,
o the force is not degrading, inhuman or harmful, and
o the punishment is not the result of the caregiver's "frustration, loss of temper or abusive personality."
o The Supreme Court also ruled that the seriousness of the child's misbehaviour is not relevant in judging the "reasonableness" of the force used.

So yes, there is no spanking in schools in Canada
post #75 of 83
8/31/08 at 7:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twinklefae View Post
In January 2004, the Supreme Court of Canada decided that:

* schoolteachers may no longer use section 43 to justify physical punishment
* parents and persons acting in the place of parents may use physical punishment, but subject to the following conditions:
o the child is between 2 and 12 years of age,
o the child is capable of learning from the punishment,
o the force is minor and of a transitory and trifling nature,
o the punishment does not involve objects or blows or slaps to the head,
o the force is not degrading, inhuman or harmful, and
o the punishment is not the result of the caregiver's "frustration, loss of temper or abusive personality."
o The Supreme Court also ruled that the seriousness of the child's misbehaviour is not relevant in judging the "reasonableness" of the force used.

So yes, there is no spanking in schools in Canada
Man, they always seem to get ahead of us on stuff. Darn right-thinking Canadians with their non-child-abusing school districts, trying to make the US look bad again...

Yeah I'm going to homeschool someday. Not because of this per se, but then you never do know how other people are treating your kids.
post #76 of 83
8/31/08 at 7:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovin'leo View Post
Thanks
post #77 of 83
8/31/08 at 9:48pm
Oh that is wonderful news...I was pretty upset when I read that on NCP earlier
: for Canada!
post #78 of 83
9/4/08 at 2:44pm
I was having a first look around the gentle discipline forum when I came across this. This is a subject that really makes me mad - my dh and I are raising his 13 year old nephew. He had been living with his mother in one of the states where corporal punishment is 'frequently' used. I don't know exactly how many times he was paddled, but it happened 'several' times. This is a kid who came from a house with a mother and stepfather who couldn't think of anything else to do with him but spank him either (and with a belt if sf felt like it).

The first time I heard that nephew had been paddled at school, the kid was no more than 7, I was horrified that it still happened at all. I had no idea. I feel like the school completely failed him and his needs. Everyone around him, everyone he should have been able to trust and feel safe with, just whacked him. Over the years dh couldn't stand it but he really didn't know what he could do about it because, for some obscene reason, it was perfectly legal in the eyes of the law (and perfectly deserved according to his mother and stepfather), he told nephew that if anyone ever left any marks or bruises that he should tell him and dh planned to raise he!!. That never happened (or nephew never told him anyway).

Nephew was never much of an innocent in all of this, he was paddled for things like climbing on the school roof, leaving the classroom through the window in the middle of class, breaking a ceiling fan, throwing things at teachers etc.... So he is a child with behavoral issues (maybe because no-one stopped to discipline him in between smacking him around???). But how was hitting him with a piece of wood ever going to teach him anything? Except for hate for the principals and for school itself.

Through a series of events recently he is now in our house (dh has been wanting to take him in for a long long time) and we're trying to pick up the pieces. He is a really really tough kid to parent and very challenging to us. Another thing that is tough is getting him to understand that he is safe with us, that we're not going to hit him when he misbehaves, and that his school isn't either. I think that he is a child who has been terribly let down by those who were meant to protect and teach him.

It really needs to be taken out of schools.

(Sorry, I didn't mean to write so much! If you made it this far through, congratulations!)
post #79 of 83
10/8/08 at 12:33am
Hi. Came across this while doing a search on Texas and spanking. I just started a group on facebook for Texans against spanking. I am in the research process right now and trying to gather articles on why I"m against spanking. PM me if you want the link to join!
post #80 of 83
10/8/08 at 12:59am
Several mamas, including myself, recently left a local Texas listserv over this issue. One mama out of several hundred was all in favor of spanking in schools and I could not stand to hear her advocating in favor of it. I want to enjoy my life, not hear advocacy of institutionalized child abuse.

That's basically it -- it's so disgusting that I don't even want to hear people's opinions justifying it. So please PM me with your fb link!
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