Help with 9 year old DD.

[aniT]

I hate to post in this forum becuase I don't think a 9 year old is a preteen, however it seems like the childhood forum is all about preschoolers. So here I post.

I am having a horrible time with my 9 year old DD. She refuses to follow directions of any sort. She just does whatever she wants and doesn't seem to care about the consequences.

For instance, this weekend we had a garage sale. On Friday I had to take DD1 to the dentist for a tooth extraction. My mom came over to help with the garage sale as DH is the neighborhood organizer and had other obligations. DD2 asked my mom if she could take DS out to play on his bike. (21 months) My mom said yes but that DD had to stay on the sidewalk with him. A bit later DH comes back and finds DD with DS in the middle of the street. He sent her back home where my mom yelled at her and she was then made to go in the house.

On Saturday and Sunday she was selling soda's and water. On Sunday evening I told her to clean up the "stand" and come in. I would find her on the lawn messing with other stuff and doing everything BUT cleaning up. I would go out to help her and she would walk off and never come back. It took a good hour to get a chair, an ice chest, and the left over water and soda put away.

Today she is supposed to be picking up the family room. She has been NOT picking up the family room since 10am. It's now 2:13. I set the timer for 30 minutes and told her if it wasn't clean she was grounded from the phone for 2 days and had to spend the rest of today in her room. Didn't get it clean. I set the timer for another 30 minutes and told her if it wasn't clean she was grounded until school starts. (School starts Tuesday so that is only a week.) Didn't do squat. As a matter of fact, I think it is DIRTIER. I am making fish stick for them to eat and told her she had til the timer goes off or when I make brownies she doesn't get any. I hear her in there playing not doing a damn thing. I am seriously about to loose it with her. :

I have tried helping her clean when she has chores to do but that doesn't work either as she will just walk off and not come back til I chase her down and get really angry. Nothing seems to work at all.

I know some of you don't believe in the kids doing chores, but these kids are slobs. They throw garbage on the floor, they eat in the family room even though they know they aren't supposed to. I will come in the room and catch mainly DD2 jumping off the couch with food an running into the kitchen. She shoves garbage under the tables, couch cushions and anywhere she can to not have to actually throw it away. My carpet in this less than four year old home is destroyed from food and drink stains because they will NOT follow the rules. And they wont even pick up after themselves. My house is a disgusting pig sty and I am sick of being everyones maid and no one cleaning up their own damn messes.

I should add that DD has been diagnosed with ADD and I am having her tested for dyslexia on Friday. I know she has some issues, but I don't think those issues are any reason to just let her get away with making the house unlivable and not helping clean.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks!!

[ma_vie_en_rose]

This sounds a lot like DSD who is 10yo and BP/ADHD. I have found that it is difficult for her to clean up general areas. I have to have her do one specific task at a time with a time frame while I give some supervision (not standing over-just checking in). She lets me know when she has done it, and I give her another task. If I am not specific with her, she will do exactly what your DD does.

I have also found that being very, very consistent with her on consequences helps. Also, if I need her doing something, I try to have her do it before anything else like playing with friends. She is very motivated to get things done if it means she gets playtime. kwim You need to really figure out her motivators because it isn't anything you have taken away so far. kwim

Anyway, I hope some of this helps. BTW, the bike/street situation is something I have specifically dealt with, too. DSD took DD1 out in the middle of the street to ride after specifically being told to stay on the sidewalk only. It was obviously too much responsibility for her, so she is not allowed to ride with DD1 unless I am directly able to supervise.

[aniT]

We're now going on 10 hours. She has wasted my entire day. :

And I do give her directions like, pick up the toys and put them on the table. Pick up the garbage and throw it away. I will go back and tell her each tasks she needs to do buy she WONT DO IT. I am at my wits end and very very POed. :

[SAHDS]

Originally Posted by aniT

I set the timer for 30 minutes and told her if it wasn't clean she was grounded from the phone for 2 days and had to spend the rest of today in her room. Didn't get it clean. I set the timer for another 30 minutes and told her if it wasn't clean she was grounded until school starts. (School starts Tuesday so that is only a week.) Didn't do squat. As a matter of fact, I think it is DIRTIER. I am making fish stick for them to eat and told her she had til the timer goes off or when I make brownies she doesn't get any. I hear her in there playing not doing a damn thing. I am seriously about to loose it with her.

This sounds harsh, but it seems as though you've disciplined her to be this way.

You threatened her with 4 different things in 3 situations. The first time, you said if she didn't clean it, she'd be grounded from the phone and sent to her room. BUT, when she failed to clean, you didn't send her to her room. Children are about consistency. If you make empty threats, she won't listen because she knows they're empty. What's her motivation?

[milehighmonkeys]

Someone recently told me that we need to deal with kids in "their currency". Meaning that we deal with them in terms that have meaning for them. Maybe she would be more receptive to a reward for cleaning her room rather than a punishment for not cleaning it. Our DD would probably do anything if we told her we would get her a new book or magazine for doing so. Similarly, she will also do anything to keep her books. For our DD, her currency is books.

[aniT]

Originally Posted by SAHDS

This sounds harsh, but it seems as though you've disciplined her to be this way.

You threatened her with 4 different things in 3 situations. The first time, you said if she didn't clean it, she'd be grounded from the phone and sent to her room. BUT, when she failed to clean, you didn't send her to her room. Children are about consistency. If you make empty threats, she won't listen because she knows they're empty. What's her motivation?

I didn't send her to her room because she wasn't done! I am sick of having to do every damn thing myself. Sending her to her room right away would have just got her out of doing her work. She was sent to her room when she finished. AT 10PM! 12 hours later! She also had to sleep in her room tonight. DH is on a business trip so she had been sleeping in my room. I told her that tomorrow night she could sleep in my room IF she followed directions. If she didn't she is sleeping in her own room.

Originally Posted by milehighmonkeys

Someone recently told me that we need to deal with kids in "their currency". Meaning that we deal with them in terms that have meaning for them. Maybe she would be more receptive to a reward for cleaning her room rather than a punishment for not cleaning it. Our DD would probably do anything if we told her we would get her a new book or magazine for doing so. Similarly, she will also do anything to keep her books. For our DD, her currency is books.

Tried that.. it doesn't work.

[SAHDS]

Originally Posted by aniT

I didn't send her to her room because she wasn't done! I am sick of having to do every damn thing myself. Sending her to her room right away would have just got her out of doing her work.

I understand your logic, but you told her she'd be sent to her room and you didn't send her to her room (hours and hours later doesn't count, the lesson was already lost). It reminds me of the threats my cousin makes to her kids. We'll be in the car going somewhere and she'll say "If you guys don't stop *insert whatever*, then I'm going to turn around and go home!" But she's not going to and they know this. It's an unreasonable and useless threat.

Instead of threats, ask (or tell) her to do something. If she doesn't, she should be held accountable. Through consistency of action, she'll know what's expected of her without you having to bargain/plead.

We have rules, if my kids break them, there are consequences. Period. I don't negotiate or threaten. If they choose to break a rule, they know they chose to deal with the consequence.

I told her that tomorrow night she could sleep in my room IF she followed directions.

It didn't work with the brownies, right? I never say "If you do X, you get Y". You shouldn't have to bribe them to help/do something. My kids don't get money for doing chores, but I will reward them with books and such when there's been help on a regular basis. It's not their motivation, though. I don't use it as a way/precursor to get them to clean, it's more of an after-thought (like a thank you card, LOL).

I know my posts sound harsh, but I'm really just trying to help.

[chiromamma]

My 13yo DD is very much like this and improving. I just have accepted that she's a bit absent minded and needs reminders to pick her wet towel up every time she showers, etc. She's brilliant and so focused in so many other ways. I just try to remember how Albert Einstein used get lost walking home because he was so deep in thought.
Her follow through with chores has improved dramatically. Rather than rotate chores daily or weekly, I give my kids the same chores to do for a month or more. Boring, yes but it helps a kid like her to know what's coming and move towards feeling successful.
I notice a huge improvement in her ability to stay on task with all things when we supplement properly..vitamins, antiox, and DHA and when she gets plenty of water and exercise.
Like a PP, we found that incentives (DH cringes at the term reward) are effective. For example, a certain amount of Wii time or fun computer time is earned per chore.
In terms of consequences,the book Parenting With Love and Logic has been a God-send. I almost never ground my kids anymore. It's too hard on me.

[greenmama]

It may not be that her behavior is simple willfulness, she may not truly have the maturity to accomplish the tasks and internalize the rules. I know it seems like these are realistic expectations for a nine year old, but they may not be for your nine year old. She may need you to stick to her and treat her as you would a younger child. My DD would also be labeled ADD were she in a setting to get labeled and I find just getting in there and being with her as you would a younger child helps her succeed.

Stick with her and always be there when she starts to leave the kitchen with food. If you are always there saying "oops, don't forget no food in the living room." before it gets in the living room she will learn the habit. If you want her to accomplish something, tell her once (with a consequence if you want) If she doesn't do it, make the consequence stick, but say come on lets go get it done together now. Item by item step one now, step two now, until the job is done. She will understand that she is going to do it.

I know this could make your life more difficult and may feel like it is punishing yourself for her behavior, but I think it is helping her with her challenges and it may be a more successful approach. Just my opinion

[aniT]

Originally Posted by greenmama

It may not be that her behavior is simple willfulness, she may not truly have the maturity to accomplish the tasks and internalize the rules. I know it seems like these are realistic expectations for a nine year old, but they may not be for your nine year old. She may need you to stick to her and treat her as you would a younger child. My DD would also be labeled ADD were she in a setting to get labeled and I find just getting in there and being with her as you would a younger child helps her succeed.

Stick with her and always be there when she starts to leave the kitchen with food. If you are always there saying "oops, don't forget no food in the living room." before it gets in the living room she will learn the habit. If you want her to accomplish something, tell her once (with a consequence if you want) If she doesn't do it, make the consequence stick, but say come on lets go get it done together now. Item by item step one now, step two now, until the job is done. She will understand that she is going to do it.

I know this could make your life more difficult and may feel like it is punishing yourself for her behavior, but I think it is helping her with her challenges and it may be a more successful approach. Just my opinion

Now see.. the thing is, I try that... and when I start helping her.. she wanders off and I have to go hunt her down. Or she will go in the bathroom forever.

DH was/is the same way. So I do realize that it is not really intentional, but it drives me crazy just the same.

I just signed up for a meditation yoga class for ME. Maybe that will help.

[operamommy]

Hugs to you. My 10-year-old dd does a lot of the same things, and I know how frustrating it can be.

[Aubergine68]

My dd is 10. She looks so grownup but it is a really, really distractable age. One thing I've figured out about her, she hates working alone, but will do a lot if she feels she's part of a group working together.

I'd try keeping it really, really simple and assigning jobs in the same room you are in so you can supervise her more closely. And I REALLY like the idea of giving each child the same job for a month.

I recently gave dd10 and ds almost5 the job of cleaning the bathrooms once a week. I presented this way: "Kids, there are some things you need to know about how to get along in this world, and it is my job as your parent to teach them to you." and also "If you live in this house, you have to help out, it's only fair."

The first two times, I made sure we had nothing else on our agenda that morning, stayed with them the whole time and trained them in exactly how to do it. Wierdly, it was actually a fun family time, after they stopped whimpering, that is... Since then I stay nearby and check in regularly. They aren't perfect, but they do ok! And, bonus, they are less likely to really mess up the bathrooms now, because they know what it takes to clean them.

I figure if I give them one semi-major chore every month, then dd will know most of what they need to know about housecleaning in a year and ds will have the basics, anyway. If they can look at a dirty/messy room and actually *see* it the way I do, I'm sure there would be less mess.

Dd's friends actually think it is cool, wonder of wonders. She had one over on a playdate (lives in a Mcmansion with maid service) and they wound up cleaning my toilets together

[harrietsmama]

Originally Posted by ma_vie_en_rose

This sounds a lot like DSD who is 10yo and BP/ADHD. I have found that it is difficult for her to clean up general areas. I have to have her do one specific task at a time with a time frame while I give some supervision (not standing over-just checking in). She lets me know when she has done it, and I give her another task. If I am not specific with her, she will do exactly what your DD does.

I have also found that being very, very consistent with her on consequences helps. Also, if I need her doing something, I try to have her do it before anything else like playing with friends. She is very motivated to get things done if it means she gets playtime. kwim You need to really figure out her motivators because it isn't anything you have taken away so far. kwim

Anyway, I hope some of this helps. BTW, the bike/street situation is something I have specifically dealt with, too. DSD took DD1 out in the middle of the street to ride after specifically being told to stay on the sidewalk only. It was obviously too much responsibility for her, so she is not allowed to ride with DD1 unless I am directly able to supervise.

Yup, I was like this. My mom went nuts trying to get me to dress myself. On a joke she went with friend to a psychic, and she turned to her and told her all about me and my left handedness and being libra, having trouble making the best choice. She told my mom to direct me like this : tell her to put her left sock on first, put her left leg in her pants first, left arm, right arm, head in shirt etc. I got dressed in less than 5 minutes at 4yo. for me, it needs to be that broken down.

Lift the left cushion and look for garbage. Then the middle, then the right, then the love seat, then the chair, whatever, break it down for her. I stay away from direct rewards because a lack of a reward is a punishment imo. However if she does start getting it, take her out for a spur of the moment one on one and get her a cool magazine or t-shirt or something. She will still feel good, but it's not so attached to do this or/do this and kinda stuff

[aniT]

Originally Posted by harrietsmama

Yup, I was like this. My mom went nuts trying to get me to dress myself. On a joke she went with friend to a psychic, and she turned to her and told her all about me and my left handedness and being libra, having trouble making the best choice. She told my mom to direct me like this : tell her to put her left sock on first, put her left leg in her pants first, left arm, right arm, head in shirt etc. I got dressed in less than 5 minutes at 4yo. for me, it needs to be that broken down.

I am left handed and I get dressed like this naturally. I notice other people put their heads in their shirts then their arms. It's weird to me.

When I get the kids dressed in one piece jammies I always put their arms in first then their legs.. my mom puts their legs in first then their arms.

This DD is right handed. My four year old is left handed though.

[harrietsmama]

Originally Posted by aniT

I am left handed and I get dressed like this naturally. I notice other people put their heads in their shirts then their arms. It's weird to me.

When I get the kids dressed in one piece jammies I always put their arms in first then their legs.. my mom puts their legs in first then their arms.

This DD is right handed. My four year old is left handed though.

This is odd how people do simple things differently. For me, the dilemma has always been seeing the steps to make things simple, I always get overwhelmed by the whole job or project or event - whatever. I still call my mom from across the country to help me break stuff down sometimes when I feel overwhelmed and I am done sitting in my jammies on the couch until it and I have grown together, before it actually opens up and swallows me whole.

[StartingtoCrunch]

My almost 9 year old is ADHD, and I could have written your post before we started medication. Our family life is so much better, because she has the ability to focus on the task at hand. I know there are a LOT of anti-med people around, but I am just sharing what works for us.

The change in her was UNREAL, and we began to see how much she truly couldn't focus on what we told her to do before med. Literally if I said, pick up the toys and put them in the toy box, she would do 4 cartwheels on the way to the toys, and looking at the doll's dress would remind her that she had planned to wear a skirt today, upstairs to change clothes, distracted by something else in her room, and three hours later, the toys are still in the floor..... Now I can say, pickup the toys, she does it immediately and well... unless she's just having a typical "tween' moment....

But I totally get the messy house driving you crazy! I know!