How should I approach the teacher? Over the top reward system and the perfectionist child...

[amcal]

I'm not sure how to talk to the teacher about this.

First, my oldest DD is a rule follower. She loves rules. She is quiet and respectful and helpful. She will do anything a teacher asks, will go above and beyond, helps other students etc.... it's just her personality. Since preschool, teachers have always singled her out because of her exemplary behavior in school. I'm forever getting told how wonderful my child is. I get that having a child who follows the rules is wonderful for a teacher but, she is constantly praised for it and I don't really like it. I think it puts a tremendous amount of pressure on her to always be perfect.

A bit of background about her class room. The follow a reward system. But, every.single.behavior gets rewarded. Who ever cleaned up the fastest, walked the quietest, lined up first etc..... gets to go to the treasure chest and pick out some cheap, plasticy prize. DD comes home with 2 - 3 things a day.

So, last night right before bed, DD starts sobbing saying that she lost the "big prize" for her table. I guess at the end of each day, one table wins a "big prize" - the table with the best behavior throughout the day. But, the rule is that you can not ask the teacher which table has won - you just have to wait for the teacher to announce it. Well, it was almost the end of the day and the teacher hadn't announced it and my DD was worried she had forgotten so she mentioned something. She said she knew immediately what she had done and stopped talking but, the teacher then goes on to give the award and says that my DD's table is out of the running because someone asked about it.

My DD was horrified. She said that her entire table looked at her and she was so ashamed and embarrassed. She said tears were burning her eyes and she felt so guilty. As Dd is telling me this, she is sobbing and sobbing that she's so ashamed that she didn't trust her teacher that she would remember to choose the best table and that she's so ashamed that she lost the prize for her table.

She's also hysterical because I guess they are in the running for some really big prize and anytime you do something wrong, your name gets taken out of contention for the prize. DD says she just knows now that she is out of the running for the prize and she's devastated.

I don't know what to do or how to approach this with the teacher. DD wants me to write her a note telling her how sorry she is for not trusting her. I want to write her a note and tell her how obnoxious I think this whole reward system thing is. I HATE reward systems that give rewards for behaviors that children should just be doing. The should learn to find personal satisfaction in doing a job well done instead of doing it solely for the chance to get a cheap prize out of the box.

I'm sorry this is so long but I would really appreciate any thoughts - am I just being over protective and I should just let DD deal with the consequences of breaking the rules? Or does the teacher need to know what kind of pressure this is putting on her?



UPDATE:
Well, that didn't go so well. The teacher called and I could tell from her voice that she was immediately defensive. She said she only had a second and then said that basically everything my daughter told me was incorrect. She then went on to correct everything she thought was incorrect but, as the heart of the matter, my DD had some of the time frames different but what DD said happened, actually happened.

The teacher said my DD wasn't singled out but that her table was singled out and told they weren't getting the prize because one of their students had asked when they were getting a prize. The problem is that they were promised a prize the day before, didn't get it and the next morning my DD asked about it and because she asked, they lost the prize. This teacher says she does not want to be nagged about prizes which I get but, if you promise a group of 6 year olds a prize - give it to them!

So, I asked how the reward system was used because my DD seems to get prizes for cleaning and walking quietly. She said prizes are only given for going above and beyond - not only cleaning your area but helping others clean etc...

She was really, really defensive and I kept trying to explain to her that I wasn't questioning her but that this is a new experience for us and I'm trying to understand the system. She said "I AM COMPLETELY confident in my teaching ability - I know what I'm doing is the right thing" - again, very defensive.

She then said if I didn't want my DD to get anymore prizes, that's fine, she'll just stop giving her prizes. I said that I did not want my daughter singled out that I only wanted to understand how prizes are given out.

And then I said that really, the prizes aren't the issue. My daughter doesn't care about prizes. She gets her satisfaction from following the rules, being told by the teacher that she's a good helper or a good friend or good listener. I explained that the problem wasn't the lack of a prize but that she felt ashamed that she had let the teacher down and let her table down.

The teacher said that they are a family and when they break up into smaller "families" everyone has responsibility to the other family members and when you break the rules there are consequences.

Anyway, she seemed completely defensive, completely focused on how wonderful her reward system is, says I'm the only parent to ever complain etc... She completely missed the point.

So, she's going to stick with her reward system and I'm feeling stuck. I don't know what to do at this point.

[Rani]

just my two cents, but I think a call is better than a note in this case. You could start by saying how devastasted your dd was but that the purpose of the call was to ask about the purpose of the system. That you feel its overriding the learning day more than it should...or some such.

These are the kind of things where talking is both faster and chance of misunderstanding is less. Because you aren't calling to complain about her upset as much as to challenge teh system itself. It will surprise her most likely because I am sure she would think the parents of kids that do well under the system wouldn't have a problem with it.

That said, I agree with you - it sends a clear message about form being more important than substance.

Good luck

[PassionateWriter]

wow...i am just amazed..thats a pretty brutal reward system.

im not sure what i would do but i would definitely set up a conference w/ the teacher and principal to see what teh benefit of this system is.

[LauraLoo]

I agree, this sounds like a pretty brutal reward system. I don't think I've heard of a reward system that's so.......controlling.

So, what happens to the kids that are out of the big prize? I don't see any incentive to behave once they know they're out.

I'm really, really hoping that somehow, someway, this is all a very bad misunderstanding about what the teacher is hoping to accomplish. And just know that your dd can't be the only one that is freaked out by this.

Any chance that Alfie Kohn will be speaking in your area sometime soon? Maybe you can buy a ticket for the teacher as an early holiday present.

[wombat]

oh that's horrible. I don't think you're being overprotective.

I'd find out if this is a school wide system that the teacher maybe has to follow. I wouldn't criticize their silly system but I'd emphasize to the teacher the effect of it on your daughter. The teacher needs to understand that. The teacher must know your daughter doesn't need this system, she could be a bit more sensitive how she applies it!

[Mirzam]

What an awful system . Is this school wide or just the way your dd's teacher is handling the kids? I agree with you it is obnoxious that children are rewarded for doing stuff they should be doing anyway. What kind of message is that sending? How about the kids that can never "behave" in the way the teacher is expecting? I guess they just give up. I would talk to her face to face and and explain how it is effecting your child, I am sure she isn't the only one that this kind of behavioral modification technique is negatively impacting. Frankly I can't see how it can possible be beneficial for anyone, except the teacher.

[daisymama12]

I agree with all the pp's, that system is not good!

Whatever the outcome of your talk with the teacher (I would ask for an appointment too, not send a note), I would spend time talking to your dd, and try to work on lessening her attachment to the teacher's system.

Talk about what she learned in school, rather than what she earned in terms of rewards. I'm sure you've done this already, but reinforce that your focus is that she is happy and learning, not about receiving or losing rewards.

Also, my son is always reassured when I tell him aobut my own school mishaps and embarrasments when he comes home embarassed about something that happened. hth,

Good luck!

[mammastar2]

What an awful system!

I would bring it up with the teacher as well, by asking about the details of the system, the intended purpose and so on, then emphasizing that you have seen it to have a very negative effect on your daughter. I doubt you could wean the teacher off rewards altogether, but maybe she would be open to something less....COMPLETELY NUTS??

With your daughter, I see no harm in discussing with her why you don't care for the system, and encouraging her not to pay too much attention to it. When dd's teacher in first grade put in a reward system (but the prize for the 'best table' was at least only weekly), I explained to her just why I wasn't keen on it, like a stuck record.

She is also a perfectionist, who had always been well-behaved, but who started striving for the prize every week and being very disappointed not to receive it. We agreed that we liked her teacher very much, but that sometimes teachers don't understand that kids can have other reasons for their behaviour besides prizes and punishments, and that was too bad.

[supervee]

Poor kid, yes, I would tell the teacher what pressure it is causing, but I also don't think they are going to stop the reward systems at school. It's a biggie in their toolbox.

I recently told a friend of mine that what she needed to do to take the pressure off of being perfect at everything was to pick something randomly to really, really stink at...like to be known for stinking at. Be a horrible cook. Horrible at returning phone calls. A really bad runner. Bad handwriting. Pick one and revel in how bad you are at it. She later said this was a useful habit and it did take the pressure off. She even got "bad" at other stuff and loved it!

I don't know how old you have to be for this to be appropriate. I haven't had the perfect (ha) moment to tell my kids this, but I'm keeping it in my back pocket for the right time.

I also had a helpful aunt-guardian who would tell me, "Blow it off" from the time I was in 4th grade. With her "permission" to fail, I could think more carefully about whether it was important enough to be stressed about.

[octobermom]

Originally Posted by PassionateWriter

wow...i am just amazed..thats a pretty brutal reward system.

im not sure what i would do but i would definitely set up a conference w/ the teacher and principal to see what teh benefit of this system is.

I agree I'm pretty patient with school award systems even when they go against what we do at home but WOW that is way over the top and icky. I'd deffiently set up an appointment and I'd involve the principle as well.

Deanna

[wildmonkeys]

My oldest son sounds very much like your dd. Last year his teacher was running things sort of the same. As in, if one child made a mistake, the whole class/table didn't get a reward. DS became very down on being in a "bad" class and at a "bad" table and began to build resentment towards a couple of kids who he perceived as consistently losing rewards for him. I told her that as much as I understood they were trying to use positive peer pressure, it was making my son feel very negatively about school and a few classmates - whose names I never mentioned. I told her I was worried that if it became too intense it wasn't going to teach the kids better behavior so much as socially isolate and humiliate kids who were consistently having trouble or even having a difficult day.

She was very receptive and seemed surprised that he had been feeling that way. She even said that he was one of the only boys : in her class she wasn't worried about because he had been quietly going about his business. She did adjust her system to remove rewards being linked to other kids behavior and thanked me a number of times throughout the year for letting her know.

So, I say. Send a letter, place a call, stop in and let her know how your dd is FEELING about this behavior management system. Good teachers care about how the kids feel as well as behave.

Good luck. It is so difficult to speak up in the school setting, but so important.

[EXOLAX]

Originally Posted by amcal

I don't know what to do or how to approach this with the teacher. DD wants me to write her a note telling her how sorry she is for not trusting her. I want to write her a note and tell her how obnoxious I think this whole reward system thing is. I HATE reward systems that give rewards for behaviors that children should just be doing. The should learn to find personal satisfaction in doing a job well done instead of doing it solely for the chance to get a cheap prize out of the box.

I'm sorry this is so long but I would really appreciate any thoughts - am I just being over protective and I should just let DD deal with the consequences of breaking the rules? Or does the teacher need to know what kind of pressure this is putting on her?

Our eldest is also a people pleasing rules follower and if she were subjected to this type of system she would be horrified as well. We have had some issues and while we take each one of them as they come we've learned what works for her and most of her teachers.

I didn't catch how old your DD was, but my highest recommendation would be for her to write the teacher a letter, in her own words telling the teacher how sorry she is and how she is feeling. We as parents can tell teachers that our kids are perfectionists, but it matters so much more when they see it first hand. I've learned that when DD writes a letter to her teacher (she is typically too afraid to speak to them in person about it) the teachers respond directly to her and tend to take the issue much more seriously from the child's perspective (versus the possibility that some teachers may just think we are over protective parents). If they hear it from the kids it leaves little room for assumption that it is a parent issue.

What we do:
DD writes the letter. (We don't edit it at all.)

I go in to school early with DD and assist her in handing it to the teacher (sometimes she is too afraid). I have learned to request the teacher read it right away if she doesn't automatically.

Then I leave.

I ask DD after school.

The next day I go in with DD a few minutes early and ask the teacher how it went. This also gives me the opportunity to express my feelings on the subject, but I typically wait until the teacher has resolved the issue with DD. I like to give the teacher the space away from me to deal with it with DD. It helps me and DD to separate my issues from hers and bring them up separately, and I've heard feedback from teachers that they appreciate being given the time to solve the problem with the child.

This has worked tremendously for us and for DD! It helps her self confidence and it really helps to build on the "team like" approach between parent and teacher. It also is more on the proactive side rather then reactive, which can get people on the defensive. I especially like to ask the teachers for help in solving a problem, rather then simply presenting my issues as well.

In one instance when I felt strongly about the issue DD wrote the note and gave it to the teacher in the morning. I sent her an email later on in the day with my thoughts and what we had told DD just so she was aware. The teacher called before school was out with a solution already in place.

Please let us know what ends up working for you, we're always looking for ideas as this is an ongoing issue for us as well.

[mammastar2]

I think her daughter is 6.

I would be a bit concerned that having the daughter write a note and hand it to the teacher would (a) be a slog at that age, (b) provide the daughter with plenty more time to dwell on the icky, shameful feelings she experienced around the whole episode, and (c) perhaps indicate to the teacher that the parent really supports the system and 'had their child write a note of apology' to reinforce it.

[EXOLAX]

Originally Posted by mammastar2

I think her daughter is 6.

I would be a bit concerned that having the daughter write a note and hand it to the teacher would (a) be a slog at that age, (b) provide the daughter with plenty more time to dwell on the icky, shameful feelings she experienced around the whole episode, and (c) perhaps indicate to the teacher that the parent really supports the system and 'had their child write a note of apology' to reinforce it.

If the child is not able to write the note on their own they can dictate it to the parent. We've done this as well and I made sure the teacher new it was DD's words. DD loves writing, so maybe for a different child dictation would be needed. We've done this a handful of times with different teachers each time. Only once did the teacher not respond to DD immediately and that was when I learned to ask the teachers to read the letter right then. I can't imagine a teacher reading the note and then completely disregarding the child without even a comment. If that were to happen I would speak to the teacher immediately and also speak with my DD on the spot (and go further up the chain).

We had one teacher read a letter from DD (stating that DD was scared of her because she "yelled" at another student and DD wanted to get to know her better) and the teacher got down, apologized for DD being scared, told her she would come up with a solution and would get back to her once she figured it out (that's when I left). DD came home from school that day with a personal letter from that teacher hidden in her backpack (just a sweet letter about her, nothing to do with the situation). DD also told me that the teacher stopped her once during the day to give her a hug, and then again to tell her that in the future if she (the teacher) needed to chastise a student she would take the child out of the classroom and thanked her for letting her know. I spoke with the teacher the next morning and all was well.

I really like to give teachers the chance to 1) respond on their own and 2) get to know the children independent of their parents. I would also ensure that the letter detailed more information then just an apology, but also the child's general feelings about the practice at large. The follow-up conversation between parent/teacher will let the parent get their feelings out but also ensure that the teacher is aware it is a real issue with the child by allowing the DC/teacher time.

We had a similar issue as the OP. DD was 6 and did not want to go to science class even though she loved science. It was the start of the school year. After discussion we discovered that she didn't want to go to science class because she wasn't going to get a prize. They had a similar reward system where each week the teacher put out an item and during the week the students wrote on a piece of paper what they thought the item was with their name and grade. On Friday the kids who got the answer right got to pick a prize/candy. DD had forgotten to do it and was upset about it. I went to the teacher and discussed my issues with the reward based system and how DD was responding to it. The teacher discussed it with me, but never with DD, and she did not agree with my concerns and in the end nothing came of it except I got to hear all her reasons for doing it (sometimes you can't change the system, and it becomes much more about the child/teacher relationship). I still had to help our DD work her way through it, w/o the support of the teacher.

I learned from this experience and others that getting DD involved in the discussion, and allowing her to share her feelings with the teacher gave her more conclusion then just having me handle it. It also has really helped with her confidence issues around authority figures. Each situation is different, as each child. If the situation is drastic then a direct conversation with the teacher is needed with the stated expectation that the teacher follow-up with the child as well. The OP will need to decide how drastic this is for her own DD. YMMV.

[almama]

My DS's teacher is doing a reward system this year that is no where near as oppressive as this teacher's, and it is making me nuts. I wish they would see how it is actually harmful for some children. *Sigh* and good luck!!

[supervee]

Just saw your update. That stinks. IME, once the teacher is on the defensive, there's no possible resolution. Good luck (and I hope to hear some good ideas for saving the relationship).

[LiamnEmma]

move on to the principal.

I didn't read the other responses. I read your initial and update.

In my (15 years of) experience with teachers (as their resident school psychologist) I have found that almost anyone who utters the words, "I am confident in..." during an argument in the manner you describe is completely insecure and on some level absolutely understands that the current system is wrong but is at a loss about how to change things and make them right.

1. She promised a thing. She didn't deliver. She deserves a nag and your dd was right to stick up for herself and her table (go dd!).

2. She is using shame and humiliation to extinguish behavior. It works much of the time, particularly with children like your daughter, but at the cost of someone's psyche--in this case, your daughters.

3. She is using a system that, if used in a slightly different manner, could be beautiful. For example, my dd's teacher uses a similar marble system (and for the life of me I cannot remember the theorist she uses, but he's known amongst teachers). My ds had this teacher too and I believe she is the best teacher I've ever met. So the kids at each table area (team), are chosen to put marbles in a jar when their table is ready first, when they're extra respectful, whatever. But the jar is communal, so all the class ultimately benefits. A consequence in this case would be that someone from your table doesn't get to go to the marble jar, but no person is singled out, etc. She also changes the teams every month, letting the kids choose their spots (my ds was flummoxed that wherever he sat, that table did not get the prize during that month and was offended when I suggested a link--something the teacher and I secretly snickered about since we knew that he pretty much ruined the chances of his table every month with his motor mouth), so that any one group of children is never singled out as the "bad" table.

Now, I'm not suggesting that you make the teacher do this, but I do find that when I have an issue with something, if I offer a solution as a suggestion, it sometimes seems to go over better.

My ds had an awful awful first grade teacher. One of my biggest regrets in life is that I didn't pull him out of the class, and that I waited too long to approach the principal.

A good teacher would have been willing to discuss this issue with you openly and you would have at least felt listened to even if at the end she chose not to make a change. You deserve that, and more importantly, your dd deserves it.

Thus I suggest an appointment with the principal to discuss your concerns. I hope the principal is helpful and open.


eta; I forgot this part; when the marble jar is full, the whole class gets to have a party.

[lisac77]

I think you absolutely have to involve the principal at this point. This sounds like an extremely punitive system. Also, "I can't have the kids bothering me about prizes all day!" Seriously? She instituted a prize based reward system and doesn't expect kids to ask about the prizes. Wow.

[~Nikki~]

I feel just ill for your daughter. I was that child 20+ years ago in elementary school. We had a similar reward based system. And I had a similar situation happen, when asking what I assumed was an innocent question got me in what seemed at the time like heaps of trouble. I still feel icky when I remember it.

I am 30 years old and still have anxiety issues when asking "authority figures" a question. I'm sitting here at work, going on day 3 of delaying asking my manager a question, heh. The teacher needs to understand that shaming a child in this way can have LASTING effects.

Teachers really need to remember to put themselves in the child's shoes. You would think that somebody that works with 6 year olds on a daily basis would have a better understanding of how they "work."

No advice, unless you want to bring this up to the principal. I'd also talk to your daughter, explain the parts that you think were wrong, and do what you can to re-establish some sort of trust between her and the adults in her life. If she's a sensitive child, this sort of thing could cause her to turn into the child who is too afraid to ever raise her hand in class again, which would be detrimental to her education.