What is your response to your child won't learn to respect authority? - Page 2

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by I-AM-Mother

Well, clearly those people are more than a few years late because children have a problem respecting authority NOW. I am appalled at the the stories I hear about how children are interacting with their teachers. Rude, disrespectful, impolite...need I go on?

Now, add to that the people we don't get an opportunity to hear from on a daily basis like the cafeteria workers, the teachers assistants or the principal.

So, just tell those folks -don't worry- your child will fit RIGHT in when they (I'll use their words) "assimilate into society."

This is interesting.

I work with children at the library and they are rarely rude or disrespectfull. Once in a rare while they get a bit rambunctious, but that is it.

If I can toot my own horn, the program I run at the library are exceptionally well attended.

The moral of this story? If you treat children well and respectfully, they will return in kind.

Now, I am not saying teachers who have rude kids are automatically being rude to pupils. It is the whole system, yk? Asking to go to the bathroom, being judged on everything you say, not being allowed to eat when hungry, having to be queit when there is no real need for it...I could go on and on....

Respect is a strange word. I must admit I do not really like it - it is too misused and too umbrella a term. I prefer to speak about tolerance, flexibility, logic, promoting peace, rights, responsibilites and boundaries. More consice.

Nice topic! I have occasionally thought of posting something similar.

[Stinkerbell]

This is my response:

"Eff off! Who are YOU to question ME?!? I dont have to answer to you!"

Just kidding, of course.

My kids are homeschooled...they dont live under a ROCK and never see humans. They clearly know how to interact with society. Not to mention, how many "authority" figures are they meeting at school? My kids are out in the real world meeting all sorts of people from all walks of life, all stages of "authority", all levels of peers, etc. They learn by doing and by example.

[kacymoose]

Originally Posted by alima

Since one of the most common pass times of students I knew in when I was in school was insulting and ridiculing the teacher behind his/her back,

You know that is so true when I was in school all those years ago. I remember my 5th grade classmates calling our student teacher "Jesus" behind his back because he had longish hair and a beard. Putting down the principals was fun for all when I was in high school. The good teachers didn't face much of it though, so I guess that goes back to the people that treat others with respect are respected.

[kacymoose]

Originally Posted by moominmamma

I think there are some very mistaken assumptions behind this sentiment. This sentiment is really more about obedience than respect. Note "authority figures besides his parents..." The assumption seems to be that parents are obeyed because they are authority figures. And that they only reason another adult would be respected is because of experience with obedient patterns of behaviour in a wide range of circumstances.

That is it. My kids aren't just blindly doing what they are told. They want to know why. People want kids that jump when they say jump, not have some conversation about it.

Originally Posted by moominmamma

I believe something totally different. I believe that respect springs from empathy, not obedience. In other words it comes from a a strongly-rooted set of moral values, not a pattern of behaviour. And strongly grounded values are best learned through consistent caring teaching within the family ... rather than the rather random, capricious examples set in institutional settings. I believe that people who value others' feelings and who have guided experience with viewing the world from others' perspectives will naturally behave in a respectful manner. My children listen to their parents because their parents listen to them. My children behave well in classes, concerts, playgroups and meetings because they care about how their behaviour can support or undermine the experience and enjoyment of others.

Miranda

The thing is my kids aren't always well behaved by other's standards. I've always been a big believer in allowing my kids to express their emotions. Maybe it is because they are still pretty young, but they have no qualms about crying or getting upset when things don't go their way. So many people see a kid crying as a kid trying to be manipulative or that crying is somehow a bad behavior. My boys (4.5) are in soccer and don't always listen to their coach. Coach told Luke several times not to wrestle with his brother, but Luke kept trying to play wrestle. I think maybe they are just too young for organized sports, but they really look forward to going. Maybe if coach gets smart, he won't put them in the game at the same time.....

[alima]

Originally Posted by LeftField

I don't know why people believe this. It reminds me of a funny story about my father. He made some comment about how my 7 year old is going to need to learn to deal with groups of children at some point in his life.

I know a LOT of adults who need to learn this too

I work in restaurants, and I have a few servers who fall apart if there is ONE child in the dining room, let alone a group. I know adults who might go years without interacting with a single child in any meaningful way.

While I certainly don't advocate avoiding all children for your entire life, there are very few situations outside of school and daycare where large numbers of young children will be placed together in a group, and those situations segregate those children from any adult or anyone not connected with their school or daycare.

[I-AM-Mother]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

This is interesting.

I work with children at the library and they are rarely rude or disrespectfull. Once in a rare while they get a bit rambunctious, but that is it.

If I can toot my own horn, the program I run at the library are exceptionally well attended.

The moral of this story? If you treat children well and respectfully, they will return in kind.

Now, I am not saying teachers who have rude kids are automatically being rude to pupils. It is the whole system, yk? Asking to go to the bathroom, being judged on everything you say, not being allowed to eat when hungry, having to be queit when there is no real need for it...I could go on and on....

Respect is a strange word. I must admit I do not really like it - it is too misused and too umbrella a term. I prefer to speak about tolerance, flexibility, logic, promoting peace, rights, responsibilites and boundaries. More consice.

Nice topic! I have occasionally thought of posting something similar.

I believe you do run a great program. However, this is most defiantly the stories I hear. My fil is a high school math teacher at a "Blue Ribbon" school in Pennsylvania and has horror stories about the generation of children being raised and brought up.

Spoiled. Bratty. Rude. Inconsiderate. Selfish. Loud. Lazy.

Now, I am not a teacher nor do I have any desire to really become one, but I have read threads and posts from different members -on this site about the generation of children being brought up.

Also,

According to the U.S. DOE's "Homeschooling in the United States: 2003", 85 percent of homeschooling parents cited "the social environments of other forms of schooling" (including safety, drugs, bullying and negative peer-pressure) as an important reason why they homeschool. So, apparently my fil is on to something.

[transformed]

My dad told me angrily (after spending 2 hrs w/ my 5 yr old who doesnt do anything he is told) that my ds will end up "stealing cars at 17."

I think thats an interesting fear.

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by I-AM-Mother

I believe you do run a great program. However, this is most defiantly the stories I hear. My fil is a high school math teacher at a "Blue Ribbon" school in Pennsylvania and has horror stories about the generation of children being raised and brought up.

Spoiled. Bratty. Rude. Inconsiderate. Selfish. Loud. Lazy.

Now, I am not a teacher nor do I have any desire to really become one, but I have read threads and posts from different members -on this site about the generation of children being brought up.

Also,

According to the U.S. DOE's "Homeschooling in the United States: 2003", 85 percent of homeschooling parents cited "the social environments of other forms of schooling" (including safety, drugs, bullying and negative peer-pressure) as an important reason why they homeschool. So, apparently my fil is on to something.

Hi!

I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was more looking for the cause of disrespectful children. While society blames the parent (and goodness knows this is often true) I wonder what role, if any, the school system plays in this?

Does the controlling atmosphere that is often inherantly disrespectful contribute to this?

Kathy

ETA: Remember "Lord of the Flies" ? Upon several minutes refelction (as I sit at my keyboard) I am not sure I 100% agree with the premise. None - the -less, I think one of the BEST things about homeschooling is the natural multi-age environments HS children find themselves in. I think there are a lot of positive social interaction through multi-age connections, and these naturally encourage respect. For example: we go to homeschool public skating. The older ones help take care of the little ones - often teaching them to skate. At minimum, they do not skate on top of them The ratio of adults to kids is about 1:3, and adults can and do intervene if situations get out of control (very rarely). If there are new children, parents will often ask one of their children to skate with him or her for a while, to help them feel less lonely/make connections. The environment naturally teaches respect.

Contrast this with putting 30 nine year olds in a group with one teacher for 6 hours. Are there opportunites to learn from older kids, or help younger ones? Are there a decent amount of adults around who can help problem solve if need be? No. It is often not an environment that fosters respect.

I also think a source of disrespect is power struggles. I know that when my child disrespect me, it is because we are in a power struggle. I think when students disrespect a teacher it is also a power struggle - children trying to regain some of the power stripped from them, or trying to prove they are top dog, so to speak. I also think this is the source of disrespect from teachers - it goes both ways.

[zeldamomma]

Originally Posted by alima

While I certainly don't advocate avoiding all children for your entire life, there are very few situations outside of school and daycare where large numbers of young children will be placed together in a group, and those situations segregate those children from any adult or anyone not connected with their school or daycare.

Yesterday my kids and I were at a park that is used by a summer camp-- those poor kids were just desperate for a little more adult interaction.

For all the talk about how kids need to be around other kids, I am much more likely to see kids who are lonely for a grown-up who cares than other kids.

My only misgiving about Obama for president is his support for universal preschool. All the research suggests that the net result is poorer social skills. But once we have it, whatever behavior those kids display will be the new "normal" I guess.

ZM

[ShaggyDaddy]

Originally Posted by transformed

My dad told me angrily (after spending 2 hrs w/ my 5 yr old who doesnt do anything he is told) that my ds will end up "stealing cars at 17."

I think thats an interesting fear.

hah I would just say, well if he likes cars that much, the car he builds will be so much cooler than other people's that there will be no point... Mine was...

[waiflywaif]

All the research suggests that the net result is poorer social skills.

Can you provide a link or a citation for this? I have found just the opposite during my brief Googling after I read your post.

[MoonWillow]

Originally Posted by kacymoose

In a few places, I have heard this argument for sending kids to school: The child needs to learn to listen to other adults, or other authority figures besides his parents. When they grow up they won't be able to assimilate into society, because they won't listen to bosses, other authority figures, etc.

I haven't gotten anyone to explain this line of thinking to me. I think a person/child can figure out when it is going to be in their best interest to play along when they come of age. Not that playing along is the goal, but there are certain situations where it can be neccesary to play the game until you can get out of the situation or work to change it.

Why do you think people believe this?

What is your response when you hear this criticism of home schooling?

I believe children only learn respect by being shown respect. The "fitting into society" thing really irks me. My response is that my goal is not for my kids to fit into society but to change society. If they choose to conform fine. But its not going to be forced.

[waiflywaif]

Never mind, I found something:

http://http://www.skola.gr8.se/dokum...evelopment.pdf

Interestingly, the report talks about 3 and 4 year olds being in "preschool" for six hours or more. That sounds more like daycare to me. I think that small doses of preschool (social settings) are great for young children, but six hours is not preschool, it is childcare. (I have nothing against childcare either---I'm just explaining my opinion. I think reports like this skew people's perception of "preschool.")

[zeldamomma]

Originally Posted by waiflywaif

Never mind, I found something:

http://http://www.skola.gr8.se/dokum...evelopment.pdf

Interestingly, the report talks about 3 and 4 year olds being in "preschool" for six hours or more. That sounds more like daycare to me. I think that small doses of preschool (social settings) are great for young children, but six hours is not preschool, it is childcare. (I have nothing against childcare either---I'm just explaining my opinion. I think reports like this skew people's perception of "preschool.")

I presume that any "universal preschool" program would be designed around the needs of working parents, and would therefore be the length of a full school day, as headstart often is.

To veer even further OT: I don't have a problem with preschool when there are a variety of programs for parents to choose from, but I can't see how a federally-run program could possibly maintain the strengths of the current decentralized preschool "system". In addition, I resent the thought of having to pay for childcare for the children of wealthy families, and believe it would lead to poorer families having to put their kids in the public program because it will run all the less expensive options out of business (kind of like only wealthy families can easily afford to opt out of public school).

Rant over.
ZM

[Callimom]

never mind - misread the question

[kacymoose]

Originally Posted by zeldamomma

.

My only misgiving about Obama for president is his support for universal preschool. All the research suggests that the net result is poorer social skills. But once we have it, whatever behavior those kids display will be the new "normal" I guess.

ZM

You know, Obama was a professor & lecturer at the University of Chicago Law School. The University was founded by Rockefeller. Okay I've been reading too much John Taylor Gatto.

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html

[transformed]

ok, just throwing this out there - What if the child isnt shown respect? I am not perfect and my upbringing was horrible, as was my dh's. Just this morning we had a situation (it was dh this time, but I do it too!) where dh asked my 5 yr old if he wanted a chair to sit in for breakfast (we are moving and the house is kind of in shambles so we have these little tray high chair things the kids have been enjoying sitting in.)

Ds said "yes" dh said "yes?" (fishing for a please) Ds said "yes" and they went back and forth until dh finally said "Ok, you dont get a chair then you can eat on the floor!" : (We sold our table to move)

So I can understand dh wanting to teach ds manners but I felt that was super disrespectful just on the premise that if someone had treated DH like that, DH would have flipped out!

So what happens when the parents are screwing up on showing the kids respect ladies?

Any insight on how the child learns respect that way?

[kacymoose]

Originally Posted by zeldamomma

I presume that any "universal preschool" program would be designed around the needs of working parents, and would therefore be the length of a full school day, as headstart often is.


Rant over.
ZM

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issue...nFactSheet.pdf

Here is a link to Obama Zero to Five plan.

I know I am starting to turn into a crackpot, but it appears the govt wants to shape our children's minds from the beginning.

If Obama really wanted to make life better for young children, he ought to put in a plan that makes it affordable for moms to stay at home with their kids.

Great, now I have nobody to vote for.....

[paquerette]

Originally Posted by I-AM-Mother

I believe you do run a great program. However, this is most defiantly the stories I hear. My fil is a high school math teacher at a "Blue Ribbon" school in Pennsylvania and has horror stories about the generation of children being raised and brought up.

I can't speak for the entire state or anything, but having lived here for 30 years I have noticed a distinct lack of respect for children in Pennsylvania, beginning at birth. It stands to reason that children treated like that all their lives will grow up exhibiting the traits you describe.

[transformed]

Originally Posted by kacymoose

If Obama really wanted to make life better for young children, he ought to put in a plan that makes it affordable for moms to stay at home with their kids.
..

you arent a crackpot. I may be though. :

Think about this though - the only reason our country exists is to consume. Notice how ALL the news circulates around "consumer spending" being up down, etc.

"The economy"

"The Unemployment Rate"

At the risk of turning this into a socio-political conversation, and with all due respect, The whole point of our country is to have WORKERS. We need kids in quality schools and after care programs so that ALL parents can WORK, and we need them understanding at a young age (birth) that life is all about working. Life is work. We are gerbils on habitrails. We are Americans. (Or Ants, if you will.)

I have never taken an economics class, and it may reflect in my observations, but those are just me-looking at the situation-from my perspective. That is what it looks like to me.