Food-grade diatomaceous earth

[mbravebird]

Anyone tried it? How is it different from azomite? Does it have more silica than azomite?

I got a bunch of info on food-grade diatomaceous earth in my package from the kefirlady today(yay! I have kefir grains!), and it really intrigued me. It apparently sort of scrubs the colon clean, due to its unique hardness and sharpness. It gets into the bloodstream in small amounts and helps clear the arteries, too, bringing down blood pressure and cholesterol. It also kills parasites and attracts and absorbs heavy metals and pesticide and drug residues. It's also a good source of minerals, and of course silica. People report improvement in joint and ligament pain, skin, the list goes on...

We've been giving it to animals for years to keep their intestines clean and parasites under control, and my guess is that traditional societies got some naturally, through dirt in their food.

Anyone have any experience or thoughts? It seems like it has the benefit of azomite plus some.

[Koalamom]

I have used it for pets, and I have used it th sprinkle outside to keeps paests away. For human consumption, I have only sprinkled it in my bulk wheat to keep moths from taking it over. So I guess I eat it but probably not in high enough doses to experience any of the benefits listed. But I am still alive and feel fine so it must be safe.

[MiaPia]

I just want to subscribe to this to see if anyone has tried this.

We use it for our chickens, and also sprinkle it around the yard, but I've never thought of taking it myself. I'm interested to see where this thread goes.

[mbravebird]

Well, since last night I found this site, which summarizes a lot of the claims/benefits of foodgrade DE, and lists some research:

http://www.diatomitecanada.com/the-s...eous-earth.htm

The info that the kefirlady sent me is more detailed. It basically describes how FGDE "scrubs" the colon and, through a combination of reducing parasites, eliminating toxicities, and cleaning the colon, causes increased nutrient absorption and reduction of toxic reactions -- thus making people feel and function better.

The above link says that FGDE does not enter the bloodstream, but still somehow lowers blood pressure and cholesterol.

Hmmmm.... interesting, huh? It does seem like it's different than azomite, mainly because of its high silica content, which is responsible for all the above benefits. I'm sure azomite has some silica, though. I wonder how much? They both are a good mineral source.

[JaneS]

Kaayla Daniel just did an intruiging article in the recent Wise Traditions about this. She rec Perma Guard. Then I looked it up and couldn't get beyond that it was an insect killer!

I really should do this though. I've been a bit lax in the chelation dept. after I got my fillings out.

[mbravebird]

Originally Posted by JaneS

Kaayla Daniel just did an intruiging article in the recent Wise Traditions about this. She rec Perma Guard. Then I looked it up and couldn't get beyond that it was an insect killer!

I really should do this though. I've been a bit lax in the chelation dept. after I got my fillings out.

Thanks for the Perma Guard info.

I think I'm going to order some. It helps break up clots without preventing normal clotting, which is a good thing in my family. It helps with parasites, which I've been thinking I might need help with recently. And it generally cleans the colon -- I'm a sucker for a clean colon... ! I get really excited about the idea of being able to absorb all those nutrients really well.

And it makes sense to me that, back in the non-industrialized day, we would have gotten silica in with our food as a matter of course, from cooking outside, etc.

[steffanie3]

Hmm, never thought of eating it either.

[mbravebird]

I just ordered some Perma-guard food grade DE from here:

http://freshwaterorganics.com/order.htm


And I found this discussion of experiences using food-grade DE on curezone:
http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=923446

And this summary of all the benefits of silica/FGDE, also on curezone:
http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1218368

And some more testimonials here(page three has a long and involved parasite testimonial):
http://www.foodgradede.com/testimonials1.html


I like that this is, like other TF practices, is something in its whole form that the human body would normally get through a non-industrialized lifestyle. It is safer than herbs for giving to kids to deal with parasite/colon issues. And I think it is safer than psyllium for cleaning the colon.

We are dealing with some parasite issues from our last house's well, I think. I am going to do an herbal paragone cleanse to get myself jump-started, because my understanding is that foodgrade DE takes a bit longer to deal with parasites. It seems like more of a "maintainer" of low-parasite living, although I have read testimonials that it alone can get rid of them if taken in larger quantities. So I think I'll give smaller amounts of FGDE to my son, because I'm just not comfortable giving intense anti-parasitic herbs to my son. I'll do my Paragone cleanse and then continue with the FGDE afterwards. I'm looking forward to seeing if I see other benefits in addition to eliminating parasites.

[TopazBlueMama]

I think it kills the bad guys AND the good guys though, so I'd make sure you're replenishing at least.
That's what I heard anyway from people that use it as an insect killer for their gardens, and I'd assume it would act the same in the body.

[mbravebird]

Originally Posted by TopazBlueMama

I think it kills the bad guys AND the good guys though, so I'd make sure you're replenishing at least.
That's what I heard anyway from people that use it as an insect killer for their gardens, and I'd assume it would act the same in the body.

Hmmm...are you thinking bacteria or parasites?

I didn't think it affected bacteria, good or bad. Am I wrong? I thought it left the bacteria and the mucosal lining intact.

If it doesn't, that is certainly a concern, and would make it not something for long-term use.

Are there other parasite-like things that are beneficial?

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by mbravebird

Hmmm...are you thinking bacteria or parasites?

I didn't think it affected bacteria, good or bad. Am I wrong? I thought it left the bacteria and the mucosal lining intact.

If it doesn't, that is certainly a concern, and would make it not something for long-term use.

Are there other parasite-like things that are beneficial?

This is my dilemma also. I'm going to see if we are actually *dealing* with parasites before treating with DE. And then consider this unknown alternative compared to the mainstream ones, if needed. Currently, we are trying some of the herbal alternatives listed in this post. But, we are having a bit of discussion about parasite alternatives upthread, starting about post #146. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...e#post12055464


ETA: don't inhale the silica dust particles either, as they can damage our lungs.


HTH, Pat

[mbravebird]

Originally Posted by WuWei

This is my dilemma also. I'm going to see if we are actually *dealing* with parasites before treating with DE. And then consider this unknown alternative compared to the mainstream ones, if needed. Currently, we are trying some of the herbal alternatives listed in this post. But, we are having a bit of discussion about parasite alternatives upthread, starting about post #146. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...e#post12055464


ETA: don't inhale the silica dust particles either, as they can damage our lungs.


HTH, Pat

Do you mean that you're trying Paragone currently? How is it working for you, if you don't mind me asking? I haven't started yet.

For our family, the herbal route is not necessarily the best, because many of the traditional herbs used for parasite removal have strong anti-clotting properties. I just can't give those to my son. I will be trying it for myself, though, now that we're not nursing.

So, here's the place where I read that food-grade DE does not mess with beneficial bacteria:
http://www.thefinchleyclinic.co.uk/n...ngredients.htm
And here's a probiotic manufacturer that uses food-grade DE in their formula, along with the bacteria, confirming that it must not harm the bacteria (interestingly, this is another soil-based form of probiotic, which I think there was some recent discussion of in a different thread):
http://www.altcancer.com/microflora.htm

I can't find the original place where I read that it doesn't damage the mucosal lining, but basically, the silica *builds* healthy tissue, including intestinal tissue, and the "amorphous" silica is well absorbed by the body. Here's a link that describes that process a little more:
http://www.diatomitecanada.com/the-s...eous-earth.htm

Actually, in that same link it describes why the amorphous silica is not definitely known to be harmful to the lungs, although everyone says to be careful anyway. It's the crystalline silica that is harmful to the lungs, a la silicosis.

This noncrystalline silica (food-grade) is not a hazard as the human body apparently can dissolve it. Silicosis refers to lung contamination and irritation by crystalline or free silica (SiO2). Crystalline describes the orientation of the SiO2 molecules which occur in a fixed pattern in contrast to the nonperiodic, random molecular arrangement defined as amorphous. Perma Guard™ Fossil Shell Flour is amorphous (non-crystalline) and is Generally Regarded As Safe (GRAS), but as an extra safety precaution the dust should not be inhaled.

AND, just to add a new fun fact to this subject, another non-herbal approach to parasites is MSM.
http://www.all-natural.com/msm.html

MSM has also shown amazing anti-parasitic action against Giardia, Trichomonas, roundworms, nematodes, Enterobius and other intestinal worms. When parasites attach themselves to the intestinal lining, they can live, reproduce and rob the body of nutrients indefinitely. MSM blocks parasites by competing for receptor sites on the mucous membrane. When parasites can not attach themselves, they are simply flushed out of the system. The same is true with food allergens. MSM coats mucosal surfaces and occupies the binding sites that could otherwise be used by challenging food allergens.

Now, MSM also has known anti-clotting activity, so we're not going to try that, but I thought I'd add it to the discussion for other folks.

OK, letting you all out of my brain now.

[WuWei]

Nope, no Paragone. But, I'll do a bit of reading about it. My apology, my link wasn't correct. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=167

As an fyi, the fact that something is *sold* as a probiotic doesn't indicate viability for repopulating the gut, unfortunately. This article was disconcerting about the number of probiotics purchased which have limited *viable* probiotics retained after heat destruction during transportation and storage, or limited by stomach acids and not making it to the gut, or limited by the actual probiotics which can survive the gut without a balance of other probiotics, etc. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=artBody;col1


I saw the quote that DE doesn't hurt beneficial bacteria. However, the referenced studies are not related to that claim. http://www.thefinchleyclinic.co.uk/n...ngredients.htm My concern is with a *leaky*, inflamed gut, the mucosa is more fragile. The whole mechanical "destruction" of the parasites leads me to be concerned about the cells and the other benefical microflora. Apparently, we have hundreds of different microflora in the gut and that the DE *only* mechanically affects parasites seems contradictory to my "common sense".

"Inhalation of crystalline (CS) and amorphous silica (AS) results in human pulmonary inflammation. However, silicosis develops only following CS exposure" (doesn't mean it it is safe to breath the particles of AS.)
http://ajplung.physiology.org/cgi/co...ct/288/6/L1010

MSDS says that ingestion of AS has no known adverse effects. (of course "they" said that about amalgam and thimerasol also...)
http://www.inertsil.com/technical_Da...c-products.htm
http://www.astlettrubber.com/pdf/tit...iumdioxide.pdf

"The IARC concluded that evidence is inadequate to describe amorphous silica as carcinogenic in either experimental animals or humans. The IARC concluded that crystalline silica is a probable human carcinogen." http://ceramic-materials.com/cermat/education/302.html

I understand that each alternative has risks. And must be weighed against each other.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the mechanical damage by the DE? This study indicates that the "Amorphous silica, a three-dimensional, inorganic polymeric silicon dioxide, SiO2, does not have a crystalline structure as defined by the absence of definitive lines in X-ray diffraction measurements. Amorphous silica can be naturally occurring or synthetic."
http://mrw.interscience.wiley.com/em...rrent/abstract

"Crystalline silica exposure has been linked to rheumatoid arthritis, scleroderma, systemic lupus erythematosus, rapidly progressive glomerulonephritis and some of the small vessel vasculitides. Silica primarily exists in its crystalline state as quartz, which is structurally and chemically different from amorphous silica (e.g., diatomaceous earth)"


If indeed

This noncrystalline silica (food-grade) is not a hazard as the human body apparently can dissolve it.

if it is *dissolved*, how is it mechanically destructive to parasites???

I can not find any medline or cochrane reports about DE used therapeutically in humans. The only reports about cholesterol lowering seem to be related to a study of 19 rats.

I'll take a look at MSM. Thanks for the suggestion.


Pat

[mbravebird]

Originally Posted by WuWei

I saw the quote that DE doesn't hurt beneficial bacteria. However, the referenced studies are not related to that claim. http://www.thefinchleyclinic.co.uk/n...ngredients.htm My concern is with a *leaky*, inflamed gut, the mucosa is more fragile. The whole mechanical "destruction" of the parasites leads me to be concerned about the cells and the other benefical microflora. Apparently, we have hundreds of different microflora in the gut and that the DE *only* mechanically affects parasites seems contradictory to my "common sense".

Yeah, this makes sense to me. It's a good question.

It seems like you're leaning away from using DE. Along the herbal route, the only big herb I saw missing from your list was wormwood. I thought it was one of the "big three" for parasites.

Good luck with everything!

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by mbravebird

It seems like you're leaning away from using DE. Along the herbal route, the only big herb I saw missing from your list was wormwood. I thought it was one of the "big three" for parasites.

Not leaning, except into the inquiry. I need to *understand* before making a choice. The wormwood has some issues, iirc, especially for children.


Pat

[Taedareth]

What is MSM?

Are MSM and DE ok when nursing?

[mbravebird]

Originally Posted by Taedareth

What is MSM?

Are MSM and DE ok when nursing?

MSM is actually a synthetically made supplement, which is the other hesitation I have about it. In the natural world, it occurs only in very small amounts. Here's an article about it:
http://www.bulkmsm.com/research/msm/page33.htm
Lots of people have used it to lots of benefit, though.

Supposedly, they've done studies saying that DE doesn't get into the bloodstream, although some people claim that it does. If it doesn't get into the bloodstream, it would follow that it doesn't get into breastmilk. But I can't find the studies that folks say have shown it doesn't get into the bloodstream...

The people who say it *does* get into the bloodstream think that it does so because of its ability to reduce cholesterol and bad fats, which has been studied. (those studies are here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9533930)

HTH...

[Taedareth]

Thank you. I'm interested in doing something for routine parasite cleansing purposes. Of course I couldn't do it while pregnant so now that my baby is 4mo I am wondering if there's something safe and effective. (I've tried the clove/wormwood/black walnut hull method before and don't think it was effective. I used the Hulda Clark recommended doses and got fresh herbs from Mountainroseherbs.com)

So, what brands of DE and MSM do you guys recommend?

[JaneS]

I'm reading Dr. Cass Ingram's The Cure is in the Cupboard about oil of oregano (he recs this brand only) and he is saying it's effective for parasites too:

http://www.p-73.com/default.asp

And a whole bunch of things including some VPD's which of course got my attention: measles, mumps, chicken pox, diptheria, etc.

[Panserbjorne]

yup, amazing stuff, though sadly not during pregnancy or breastfeeding.