Need advice

[ma_vie_en_rose]

So, DSD has been playing soccer recreationally through the Y since last year. We supported this until the last season she played in the spring where she spent the entire time at games standing on the field not doing anything or taking multiple "rest" periods. Basically, it became a giant waste of time to go to the games to see her not doing anything more than socializing. It was even worse considering DH works on Saturdays and the weather here is very, very hot. Dragging the whole family out in the middle of the day in the Texas heat was really frustrating when she was not participating at all.

DH explained to her mother last spring that he did not think soccer was a good fit considering these things and would not support her continued participation in it since it was really interferring with his time with her and his energy for work later in the night. Not to mention we have a new baby coming when this will be going on. It is just too much for our family this fall.

Her mother was a bit annoyed because DSD "loves" soccer so much. Basically, DSD loves the idea of playing soccer with her friends from school but not actually playing it. DH talked with the ex about looking for something more suiting for her to do that, if at all possible, did not involve Saturdays. The ex agreed mainly because DSD would be doing choir this year with school and had set a rule with their kids of only one extracurricular activity at a time. Not only did they talk together, but they talked with DSD about looking for something she enjoys more. DSD was in some agreement despite being a bit upset that DH was calling her on her BS of not playing in the games. She was really interested in trying volleyball or even more so taking guitar lessons.

Fast forward to the past month when fall soccer sign ups have been going on and the ex has been pestering DH relentlessly to sign DSD up for it again. Apparently, a number of the ex's friends have their kids playing this fall, and she wants the social time. DH keeps telling her that it really is not something he wants to agree to given all the reasons they had previously discussed. She has her mind set though that DSD HAS to play.

To make matters worse, she has talked DSD into wanting to play it this fall instead of looking into other activities. She discusses this with DH in front of DSD. Of course, when DH stays firm to what he has previously said, DSD is very upset. The ex is putting him in the bad guy position.

So, DH finally told the ex that she can do whatever she wants as far as signing her up. However, he would not be taking her to games on his weekend. The ex said she is okay with that. Come today, and she calls DH to say that she signed her up. However, she is now NOT okay with DSD not going to games on our weekend and is demanding that DH let her pick DSD up for those games.

Now, that seems as if it would be a somewhat reasonable compromise except for a few things. Whenever we have allowed the ex to pick DSD up to do something, she keeps her for hours longer than has been agreed to--every single time. That would be DH's entire time with her on Saturdays since he goes to work at 6pm. The other is the simple fact that she has not taken DH's opinion on the mattter into consideration and done exactly what she wants this whole time. He is beyond frustrated and feels totally backed into a corner.

So, my question is how would you handle this situation? Would you allow the ex to pick her up for it or not let her go at all or bite the bullet and take her ourselves?

[strangeduck]

I've always had to pick my daughter up and take her for her softball games on ex's weekends, or birthday parties or whatever. Ex's wife refuses to go to dd's games because her sons never played a sport so it was unfair that dd got to play. (Nevermind that I payed for all fees and equipment...and yes, ex does pay child support, but believe me, that $250 a month doesn't go far and certainly doesn't cover sports or anything else extra.)

But since they made it clear that they wanted nothing to do with it, I made the decision to take all the responsibility for her sports and other activities. That means on weekends I pick her up for the activity and return her right after.

My suggestion would be for your dh to explain to ex that the only way he will allow her to go to games on is if ex takes her to the games and brings her back right after. Then give her two or three Saturdays, and if she continues to bring her home hours later, he won't allow her to do Saturday games. And maybe you could go to one or two games during the season and that way ex can't say that you and dh aren't supporting dsd.

[ma_vie_en_rose]

Originally Posted by strangeduck

I've always had to pick my daughter up and take her for her softball games on ex's weekends, or birthday parties or whatever. Ex's wife refuses to go to dd's games because her sons never played a sport so it was unfair that dd got to play. (Nevermind that I payed for all fees and equipment...and yes, ex does pay child support, but believe me, that $250 a month doesn't go far and certainly doesn't cover sports or anything else extra.)

But since they made it clear that they wanted nothing to do with it, I made the decision to take all the responsibility for her sports and other activities. That means on weekends I pick her up for the activity and return her right after.

My suggestion would be for your dh to explain to ex that the only way he will allow her to go to games on is if ex takes her to the games and brings her back right after. Then give her two or three Saturdays, and if she continues to bring her home hours later, he won't allow her to do Saturday games. And maybe you could go to one or two games during the season and that way ex can't say that you and dh aren't supporting dsd.

Well, if we gave her a chance to take her, it would be a day to day thing. The first time she messes up, it's done. kwim

As far as not supporting DSD, it would a hard case to sell considering we have been at every single game she has had prior. The ex only goes on her weekend.

It really is a matter of principal at this point for DH. Yes, it is a right fight. The thing is that he always backs down from these fights in the past to make things easier on DSD since her mother makes her privy to all matters between them. He is sick of being taken advantage of. This is just another incidence in a long line of them. At what point can he put his foot down? kwim

[strangeduck]

Ugh..I hate it when biomom's have such double standards for behavior, it gives the rest of us a bad name.

I think at this point that you just need to put your foot down and no...this is not what we agreed on and we're not going to be manipulated in this way. Explain to dsd that going back on a prearranged situation is not right and it's important to stand by her word. Tell ex that she can do whatever activity she wants on her Saturday, but that dh's Saturdays are reserved for family time.

I'm sorry you're going through this.

[jjawm]

I would stick with what was agreed upon first. It's your and dh's time with dsd, and your plans should trump hers in this case. There's always next season for soccer. And she might find something she really does enjoy more than socccer.

[pranamama]

if the child wants to do it and her friends are there I'd support it and suck it up and take her to at least half the games that fall during your time. You will be giving her an identity and something productive to do. My eldest did soccer for years, and it was really a great activity for her. I noticed a big difference in her attitude when she was playing vs when she wasn't playing. Not to mention the soccer kids have kept their grades up and stayed out of trouble, in contrast to some children who didn't do any activities. My younger two havent done it yet because of the divorce, who wants to be on a team and miss a lot of games and practices because one of your parents can't be bothered to get you there. Being a little bit uninvolved and loving the social aspect is still better than nothing to do and growing a bad attitude and missing out on the opportunity for more physical fitness.

Maybe you could have mom bring her and arrange to pick her up or vice versa if it is really hard for you.

[guestmama9904]

i don't think participation in sports has to be about whether the kid is actually good at it. just being on a team, being outside in the fresh air and learning to play a sport has many benefits physically and psychologically.so if dsd likes going to soccer, enjoys socializing and has been interested in this activity for a while i too would say try and suck up the inconvenience and let dsd enjoy this activity.

[mammastar2]

It sounds frustrating.

On the other hand, whether because of how her mom has presented it or not, it also sounds like right now your dsd wants to be signed up for soccer again this year, has friends from school who are signed up, and is in the middle of a big conflict between her parents over who, if anyone, will take her. That must really bite for her!

I'm not sure that your dh needs to 'take a stand' by refusing to take her 'ever' on his weekend, just because he dislikes how her mother has gone about the sign-up. Wouldn't it be more reasonable to say "Hey, I may not be able to make it every Saturday given these other things going on in our life. When that's the case, I will call you and see if you can take her. Other weekends, we may have other plans as a family, but we'll play it by ear"?

Sometimes kids don't participate in organized activities in the way that we would like them to, and may be more keen on the social aspect, but that's part of it too. It is 'recreational' soccer, and she's forging friendships and having a good time, even if she may be goofing off a bit.

[ma_vie_en_rose]

Okay, I see that I am going to have to explain our position on her playing this sport a little more clearly...

The issue with soccer is that she is NOT participating in it other than talking to her friends. She seriously stands on the field for one period of play and steps to the side when the ball comes her way because she really is not that interested in playing. We have to set aside hours of our day for her to stand on a field for 15mins and socialize for the rest.

We honestly couldn't care less whether she is good at it or not. What we DO care about is that she puts some effort into it. If it is going to require effort from the rest of the family to get her there and pay money, then yes she needs to try to play. We are all for her involvement in sports. However, this just is not a good fit for her, and that is why DH mentioned to her mother about finding something more appropriate for her to do.

DH and I agree that we should guide our children to find things that they do have a passion for and not just doing something to take up some time... not just theirs but the entire family's. If soccer is something she feels like doing on occasion for the social aspect, she can play soccer with neighborhood kids in the yard on her own time. That is what I did as a kid. I did not need a whole organized sport. kwim Now, I was passionate about gymnastics and that is what family resources went to doing.

We look at the kids' extra curricular things as just that--extra. While we want them to be involved in things, it also has to work for everyone else in the family. For what DSD is getting out of this, it does not hold enough value to make it worth the time and effort-- right now. We told DSD we could look at it again for next spring if she really, really wanted to do it instead of something else. It just does not work for the fall for all the reasons mentioned above. That was not good enough in the ex's and now apparently DSD's book. It is a bit frustrating to not have our feelings taken into account in any way. kwim

[mammastar2]

Well, does the entire family have to come when she has a game? Could sometimes dh go, sometimes you go, sometimes you guys just drop her off and go to another activity with the younger ones during the game, then pick her up after?

[bronxmom]

any chance you can have the mom take her to the soccer games but get extra time on another day to compensate - i kind of hear what you are saying about the soccer and it sounds frustrating, but it seems like sd wants to do the soccer and it seems a little heavy-handed to say no to her, esp if that's where all her friends are; maybe you could say you want her to put forward more effort this fall if she's going to be allowed to continue in the spring - but at the age of 10, i think kids can be that way about sports and maybe we shouldn't be imposing our expectations on them of what that time should look like

also, if mom picks sd up to take her to the game then couldn't you pick her up after, thus resolving the danger of her not being back on time

[ma_vie_en_rose]

Originally Posted by mammastar2

Well, does the entire family have to come when she has a game? Could sometimes dh go, sometimes you go, sometimes you guys just drop her off and go to another activity with the younger ones during the game, then pick her up after?

Well, given that we have limited time with DSD, we make the most of what we do have. So yes, we all go to the games to support her. kwim DH is already having to work on Saturday nights (restaurant industry), so a few hours are taken away there. His schedule is something that he is not able to change. Typically, we try to avoid activities on Saturday because DH's job is very stressful on Fri/Sat nights given the volume of business. He takes off Sun/Mon, so that is more of our family "weekend" time.

In other words, blocking time out for this is a big deal when it is not something she takes seriously. That is our pretty firm opinion of her playing soccer. Like we said, if it was something she truly cared about and put effort into, it would not be as big of a deal to take time out for it.

For instance, she has a choir day camp/performance on a Sat coming up in a couple weeks that we are rearranging numerous things in our schedule to make it to because she is VERY, VERY serious about singing. She loves it immensely and tries very hard at it. That makes us very proud, and we will do anything we can to support it.

[ma_vie_en_rose]

Originally Posted by bronxmom

any chance you can have the mom take her to the soccer games but get extra time on another day to compensate - i kind of hear what you are saying about the soccer and it sounds frustrating, but it seems like sd wants to do the soccer and it seems a little heavy-handed to say no to her, esp if that's where all her friends are; maybe you could say you want her to put forward more effort this fall if she's going to be allowed to continue in the spring - but at the age of 10, i think kids can be that way about sports and maybe we shouldn't be imposing our expectations on them of what that time should look like

also, if mom picks sd up to take her to the game then couldn't you pick her up after, thus resolving the danger of her not being back on time

Yes, been when it costs a good deal of money and time, we should be willing to cough it up for that kind of behavior? Honestly, I am surprised more people are so "well, if that's what she wants to do..." about it.

IDK perhaps if we had more disposable income (we have been paying half of the cost for her activities) and an actual weekend like most people, it would not seem as such a big deal. Maybe, maybe not.

As for her friends, they do soccer, volleyball, tennis, basketball, etc. It isn't like she wouldn't have friends doing the other activities that she may enjoy doing more. kwim I don't think her friends really played much of a deciding factor. It is that her mother's friends' kids are playing. So, she would have people to hang out with at the games. kwim That is her standard MO there.

The idea of picking DSD up afterward is a great suggestion, though. I may bring that up to him. Thank you.

[guestmama9904]

i am not sure if they have this in texas but here in MN we have soccer at local parks put on by the state sponsored park board and the total cost per season including uniform shirts is 15$. thats it. it's twice a week for 2 months for 15$. my son will be staring it this sept.

when my brother was about 7 he joined a soccer team because it sounded fun and some of his friends were on the team. he was not a talented soccer player by any means and for much of the game he would twirl around in circles or talk or even sit down in the middle of the grass. it was funny to our family, not seen as a nuisance or him to commiting himself i mean he was 7 years old and in a junior soccer team at the park, it just wasnt a big deal.
it sounds a bit more involved for your family and i can definitly relate to feeling like with kids only with you for some of the time you want every moment to "count" and be fun for everyone but... this is real life and its not always fun for everyone. unfortunately it sounds like this has become a struggle between the twwo families and when your dsd looks back on soccer it would be nice if she could just remember that her two families both took her and watched her have fun.

[ma_vie_en_rose]

Originally Posted by arismama!

i am not sure if they have this in texas but here in MN we have soccer at local parks put on by the state sponsored park board and the total cost per season including uniform shirts is 15$. thats it. it's twice a week for 2 months for 15$. my son will be staring it this sept.

I WISH! That would be much, much more reasonable. Texas is very, very competetive when it comes to sports, though. The only thing that is recreational for most sports is through the Y. That is costing about $190 for the few months of fall soccer. That is cheap compared to the other highly competetive option of the local youth sports league. That is all we have here, though.

I agree that we would like her to have fond memories of it. That is why DH said no more after this last session. It is only becoming stressful now because her mother has gone back on what they originally agreed on with stopping and finding something else. This is just another symptom of their co-parenting issues that I think they need to deal with better.

[AnnieA]

I totally understand where you are coming from! Except our activity issue is with swimteam. This past summer, both of my DSDs did swimteam and it was a complete waste of time. I have already told my DH that I will not be participating next summer. We rearranged our whole family's schedule for practices and meets and when I would take the girls to practice, DSD 10 wouldn't even hardly swim! So I get it. If this were my situation, I would ask DH to have a conversation with DSD and gently explain that a decision had already been reached and she was in agreement and now that is being changed and DH will not support it. We have also had issues with their mom not bringing them back in a timely fashion so we wouldn't allow the pickups either.

[bronxmom]

Instead of splitting the cost of soccer, would it be possible to reach an agreement with the mom that since she feels strongly about supporting the soccer then she should pay for it and that you will pay for/support another chosen activity that your sd likes. Since the mom went back on the agreement, this seems fair to ask and esp if you agree to compensate by paying for something else. This might ease your resentment of the financial burden of paying for something you think is a bad idea (which seems like a big issue) while allowing your sd to find another activity that might help her find something she's more genuinely interested in (another big concern of yours). Your daughter comes out ahead and both parents get what they want. I would not make this a sticking issue b/c it sounds like your sd does end up in the middle. And I think if she's kept out of half the games because she is with her dad then that will come back to bite you - I wouldn't go there. I would work for some kind of compromise.

[ma_vie_en_rose]

Originally Posted by bronxmom

Instead of splitting the cost of soccer, would it be possible to reach an agreement with the mom that since she feels strongly about supporting the soccer then she should pay for it and that you will pay for/support another chosen activity that your sd likes. Since the mom went back on the agreement, this seems fair to ask and esp if you agree to compensate by paying for something else. This might ease your resentment of the financial burden of paying for something you think is a bad idea (which seems like a big issue) while allowing your sd to find another activity that might help her find something she's more genuinely interested in (another big concern of yours). Your daughter comes out ahead and both parents get what they want. I would not make this a sticking issue b/c it sounds like your sd does end up in the middle. And I think if she's kept out of half the games because she is with her dad then that will come back to bite you - I wouldn't go there. I would work for some kind of compromise.

That's a great suggestion. The only issue is that money is very, very tight ight now since we are expecting in the few months and medical bills have been overwhelming. Not to mention DD2 is having surgery next month. Also, we MUST buy a second car (we have been running on only one for years) becasue we have outgrown our current car situation. So, you see where I am going with this. $200 for another activity is just not going to happen right now when $100 was a stretch to start. The only way it could work is in the spring to pick up a seperate activity. Also, I don't know if her mother could afford the whole amount on her own either. It could be worth bringing up, though. Thank you.

[aricha]

I'd encourage my husband to enforce the agreement, and to be up front about things with everyone. It was discussed why he didn't want her to do soccer this season and some other activities were agreed to. He was flexible enough to say, when she changed her mind that she could sign up with the understanding that she would be missing the games on his weekends. That was the agreement when she was signed up, so the choice now is between one of the two agreements-- un-sign her up OR she goes on Mom's weekends only (and your weekends if it fits into your family's schedule occasionally).

People will not stop doing something that is working for them. If your husband's ex can get her way like this, she will continue to do it when she wants something. If you want to change her behavior, you have to change your behavior.

Standing up to her has certainly never been easy, but the most positive changes in his co-parenting with his ex have come when he has stood strong to what he believes.

[boobybunny]

Sports are rarely a bad idea for young women. Self esteem, delayed sexual activities, healthy bodies, why would you not support that? Even if she is not an active participant, she is still having to practice, and she has the social aspects of the team.

My daughter is nine and a half. She plays Basketball. She has skills clinics every Saturday of the year. She has dribble walks every wednesdays during the summer and she plays on two teams in during the season. This is all her doing. I let her miss whenever she wants, and it works out to about once a month..can you guess when?

Her father is NOW very supportive of this. He has never been athletic and he has to travel to see the kids. If he were not supportive of her in sports (much like he was not supportive of our son playing soccer) he would hear about it from me.

We fought the battle of sports in court. Basically the Judge ruled that sports were not alienating their father's relationship.