Vaccines on NPR Science Friday - Page 3

[ASusan]

Originally Posted by SoBeIt

Chantele, it is so great to find you here. I was so proud of you, and so angry at how they handled you. I wrote this to the contact for Science Friday, as well as Talk of the Nation

"I am appalled with the biased and inflammatory segment on vaccines just aired on "Science Friday". I have been a fan of TOTN, not in the least for what has always seemed fair discussion that includes at least 2 sides of complicated issues. To endorse a segment like Friday 8/29's on vaccinations undermines the credibility of the entire TOTN organization. The only professional source given time on the show acknowledged no credible dissent to his opinion and Mr. Flatow kowtowed not only to his invited source, but to the idea that science itself is infallible. Then offered no other invited professional contrary opinion or position. The caller who jumped on the sword for thousands of parents concerned about vaccination was badgered and patronized, then written off as not really representative of "most parents in America". Holy cow, am I listening to NPR or Fox News? I expect this kind of sensationalist pseudo journalism from Bill O'Reilly. Shameful."

The way they dismissed you recalls the way war dissenters were labeled unpatriotic when we first invaded Iraq. Shut down the discussion and you can get away with murder. Thank you for going there. I believe you spoke for many many American parents.

Will you please post a link to the comments section? I can't find it on either the NPR site or the ScienceFriday site.

SOOO disappointed in Science Friday.

Thanks again, Chantele. YOU were the other expert on the show, even though they didn't put you in the credits.

[leila1213]

Chantele I was wondering if we might see you over here! I didn't catch all that much due to screaming 2 yo in the back seat, but I heard a lot of the aluminum discussion (I wanted to choke him over the references to breastmilk - where does he get off???) and his tapdance about how he doesn't get paid to speak out about vaccines. You did do great, so much more composed than I would have been. I too was angry at how he treated you. But I can only guess/hope that others listening would hear him say how your/other parents' concerns were "unreasonable", "irrational" etc, etc. and see that as an emotional attack, not a logical argument that a true scientist should be making in defense of good medicine.

And I love how he states that vaccines are the most heavily studied & therefore safest type of drug out there, on account of the 40,000 people in the clinical trials or whatever. Does the number of people make for good scientific method? How were they selected (or excluded - um, are these same people exempted from vaxes in real life?)? What reactions were they looking for (or ignoring)? What was the time period they were observed (can you say chronic, longterm illnesses)? Who reported reactions (parents, drs, consistency???)? AND WHO WERE THEY BEING COMPARED TO?? WAS THERE A NON-VAX CONTROL GROUP? NO!!

[elizaMM]

Originally Posted by SoBeIt

"I am appalled with the biased and inflammatory segment on vaccines just aired on "Science Friday". I have been a fan of TOTN, not in the least for what has always seemed fair discussion that includes at least 2 sides of complicated issues. To endorse a segment like Friday 8/29's on vaccinations undermines the credibility of the entire TOTN organization. The only professional source given time on the show acknowledged no credible dissent to his opinion and Mr. Flatow kowtowed not only to his invited source, but to the idea that science itself is infallible. Then offered no other invited professional contrary opinion or position. The caller who jumped on the sword for thousands of parents concerned about vaccination was badgered and patronized, then written off as not really representative of "most parents in America". Holy cow, am I listening to NPR or Fox News? I expect this kind of sensationalist pseudo journalism from Bill O'Reilly. Shameful."

Maybe they aren't entertaining the other side of the issue very much because they feel that, like global climate change, the evidence in support of vaccines is so monumentally huge that pandering to the neigh-sayers is just a waste of time.

I've been researching this stuff and just haven't found any credible reason not to vaccinate, aside from the potential aluminum issue, and I do wonder about his response about being exposed to millions of pathogens via digestive or respiratory system whereas vaccines are injected intramuscularly, which is also different than IV. But I don't know what that means.

[Deir]

Chantel! I heard you and they were total jerks!! I was especially annoyed at Ira Flato.

[candiland]

It's interesting. I worked in a ped. office for a little over a year. People would call whose children had obviously had a reaction to vaccines. It would get brushed off as, "Nah, not caused by the vaccine." So the stuff was never even reported.

If every ped. office does this with practically every phone call they get regarding vacc. reactions, it's no wonder they are considered so "safe"!

[antifreak]

Originally Posted by Chantele

I tell everyone I know in my daily life vaccinate, don't vaccinate, it's your choice, but make sure you do your own research. This topic has consumed my daily life. I'm sure the people that surround me on a daily basis wish I would shut up, but I'm not sure I even know how to do that..and if they don't want to be around me because of it this is what I think "I would rather be passionate about one thing and make change happen, than to sit back and resemble the person judging me who is doing nothing.."

That statement right there is highly intelligent and well thought out, and i totally agree, and i do very much the same in respect to vaccines, keep going there is no failure if you just keep going, keep trying, never stop"

[sophi4ka]

Just wanted to say that Chantele - you did so great!
I would feel totally intimidated by those two being so patronizing. I was so impresses that you didn't lose your cool for a second

[Turquesa]

So I'm bumping this up because I finally got to listen to a podcast of the show. Many congrats to our courageous and articulate MDC caller!

Here's what occurred to me:

1. Offit opens by saying that our generation doesn't vax our kids because we didn't grow up knowing all of those horrible diseases. Actually, we grew up before MOST of them had vaccines. I was born in 1975 and only had DTP, MMR, and polio. Compare that to today's schedule. Show of hands here: How many of you had never even HEARD of rotavirus until the vax came out! (My arm's the first to shoot in the air!)

2. I find it interesting that when the caller accused Offit of making millions from pharma, Offit evasively replied that he didn't "make any money to promote vaccines." Clever. Regardless of who promotes the rotavirus vax, he's the patent holder, so he profits.

3. His response to the aluminum concern was useless. His logic is that hey, we're already exposed to lots of aluminum. Why not introduce more by way of vaccines? Meanwhile, he didn't have a scientific leg to stand on. The caller was right. There are no studies.

Congrats again for the call!

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by Turquesa

So I'm bumping this up because I finally got to listen to a podcast of the show. Many congrats to our courageous and articulate MDC caller!

Here's what occurred to me:

1. Offit opens by saying that our generation doesn't vax our kids because we didn't grow up knowing all of those horrible diseases. Actually, we grew up before MOST of them had vaccines. I was born in 1975 and only had DTP, MMR, and polio. Compare that to today's schedule. Show of hands here: How many of you had never even HEARD of rotavirus until the vax came out! (My arm's the first to shoot in the air!)

After reading about how little I was vaxed with back in 1970's NZ - DTP, Tetanus and polio was IT - I'm with you. but then, I actually had measles and mumps as a child, not to mention chicken pox, AND survived, (gasp) so what do I know.

There are just too many vaccines. Period the end fullstop. If they'd stopped at just the 'horrible diseases", maybe this reaction against vax wouldn't be happening. But they had to keep going and going and going....

[k9sarchik]

There are WAY to many vaccines....and they just keep coming out with more and more and more.
Every sexually transmitted disease has some company trying to make a vaccine for it. There may come a day where our future kids and grand kids will require getting all these vaccines on top of what they currently have on the schedule.
Could turn into a 100+ vaccines! WTF????

Paul Offit is NOT helping the world at all. We all think it's scary now.....

[Ophelia]

Originally Posted by k9sarchik

There may come a day where our future kids and grand kids will require getting all these vaccines on top of what they currently have on the schedule.
Could turn into a 100+ vaccines! WTF????

Here is a potential schedule that compares previous years to the year 2020, although I'm not sure I understand the whole thing:

http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?is...070295&page=58

[bri276]

I've been researching this stuff and just haven't found any credible reason not to vaccinate,

the way you phrased this explains a lot. the way to research something is not to find evidence against doing it. approach it from a different angle; why must I inject this into my child? and then you start asking the right questions; how is this disease transmitted, what is the morbidity/mortality, risk factors, ingredients of the vaccine, how was it tested, etc. one vaccine at a time. starting with the one you're most concerned about is a good way.

I still can't understand how pharma has done SUCH a great job at making vaccines this unquestionable holy grail. there is literally nothing else I can think of in science (besides perhaps evolution-not to say I don't believe in that) that has to be accepted so unconditionally to maintain respect in the medical/scientific community. the CDC simply puts it on the schedule and voila, untouchable perfect sacred injection that no one with any credibility can possibly criticize. It's the best marketing job in the history of marketing.

[k9sarchik]

I have a friend whose brother said "If they make a vaccine for it my kids are getting it."
Some people ignorantly follow the herd and have no qualms about it.

[MaterPrimaePuellae]

Originally Posted by elizaMM

Maybe they aren't entertaining the other side of the issue very much because they feel that, like global climate change, the evidence in support of vaccines is so monumentally huge that pandering to the neigh-sayers is just a waste of time.

I've been researching this stuff and just haven't found any credible reason not to vaccinate, aside from the potential aluminum issue, and I do wonder about his response about being exposed to millions of pathogens via digestive or respiratory system whereas vaccines are injected intramuscularly, which is also different than IV. But I don't know what that means.

This is old, but... why not?

No one can responsibly argue that vaccines are completely safe or without risk. The risks are spelled out in the package insert. There are babies who die every year because of reactions to vaccines. That doesn't necessarily mean that all vaccines are bad for all people (just as some people have bizarre reactions to other pharmaceuticals and some don't), but *does* mean that a risk/benefit analysis is in order. I personally want to be the one to run this analysis for my babies, *not* a man with millions invested in the drugs he wants to inject into my children.

[elizaMM]

[quote=MaterPrimaePuellae;12144380]This is old, but... why not?

This is old but I don't know what it means to deliver pathogens intramuscularly or intravenously vs. deliver them through the respiratory system or digestive system because I don't know how the immune system works or doesn't work differently in these different places. The stomach has hydrochloric acid in it. Do the lungs have something similar to protect agains inhaled things? The nose has mucous and hairs which catch stuff on its way in. Obviously the muscles and veins don't have these kinds of defense mechanisms in place because we haven't had injections long enough to evolve them. But maybe it doesn't matter, maybe either way the little organisms enter our tissue and our antibodies attack them in the same way? I don't know.

Admittedly, I didn't phrase the original statement very well.

And I agree with everything else you said, MaterPremaePulei. Which may be a change from my earlier post. But I would REALLY like it if I didn't have to do so much darn research myself and I had someone I could trust to advise me. Its not that I don't find the topic intersting, its just that there are so many other interesting things to do.

[tayndrewsmama]

Soooooooo, did anyone else catch right in the beginning that Offit said that the "notion that MMR causes autism has clearly been refuted". Studies using "hundreds of thousands of children who got MMR compared to hundreds of thousands of children who didn't get MMR" clearly showed that autism wasn't related to MMR.

Now let's put aside the autism aspect. When has there EVER been a study comparing HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of vaccinated children to HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of unvaccinated children?

[Tapioca]

Exactly.

They really think we're all idiots, don't they?

[Deborah]

yep

your query reminded me of an early blog entry on inside vaccines:
http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/...we-are-stupid/