Leaving The Frenulum?

[Xenogenesis]

Can a circumcision be performed "Without" removal of the frenulum?

Or should I be asking "Do they ever leave the frenulum intact?"

Or do they ever leave "part of the frenulum"?

I'm asking because it looks like my circumcised son may have at least part of his frenulum but I'm not really sure what it's s'posed to look like if they indeed left some of it alone.

[Frankly Speaking]

There will be some of the frenulum left but because of the way infant circumcision is performed, it doesn't really matter. The circumcision clamp crushes the frenular nerve and the frenular artery and the nerve atrophies removing all of the sexual sensations the frenulum would have provided. While there may be remnants or evidence of it, it is non functional. Sorry.





Frank

[Xenogenesis]

I guess that is the answer I didn't want to "hear" although I think I already "knew" yet wanted verification.

I read early on in my travels on the road to intactiveness that some men have some semblance "of sensation" in the area of the frenulum (or what is left of it). I guess this could not be physically possible unless he was circumcised as an adult? Do they leave the frenulum alone during an adult circumcision? Or is it physiologically plausible that the sensation lies in the area directly underneath where the nerves of the frenulum would be functioning if not severed from the penis? Or is it psychological in that he "remembers" the searing, scorching agony of having it cut into and away from the flesh of his most sensitive area?

[Sarah]

Laila- I think that there is a variety of sensation that people experience. I know that for some men they have pleasurable sensations at their circumcision scar and find it to be one of the more sensitive areas of their skin- perhaps because of a frenetic kind of nerve branching that happens as the raw nerves try to heal through the crush wound. Other men feel nothing, and others have painful sensations. Maybe it's subjective and maybe there is a real variety in the way that these wounds heal.

I know of a few (circumcised) men who have posted questions on a restoration list about their frenulum or the area where their frenulum was. For some of them it is a very sensitive and pleasurable zone, and for some of them, having their frenulum, or parts of it- is something they take some solace in... others, look at it with horror that someone was picking and choosing through their most sensitive anatomy. I am not in a position to know if what they feel compares in any way to what would have been, but it is something that some circumcised men do know to be a pleasure spot.

I do not think it would be outlandish for you to be glad that the circumcision was less severe than more severe, and I also don't think there is much point in beating yourself up with guilty feelings. I think that the best action for you to take in your position is to be prepared to be honest, appolgetic and supportive to your son... to be open and honest with the people in your life about it- and to contact the circumciser, insurance company, and the hospital where your son was circumcised explaining your regret and your anger that the structural importance of this anatomy was not explained to you prior to the circumcision. Demand a reform of their consent policy to include information on intact anatomy.

Love Sarah

[Xenogenesis]

Thank You, Sarah, for your explanation(s). I'm glad to hear that there is a wide range of sensation with a possibility of pleasure in that area although the primary function was surgically stripped away. My ds seems to have a frenulum-like structure at the base of his penis that seems to be neatly attached to some looser skin the good doctor deemed "necessary" to leave for him.

I am slowly learning how to move onwards from the overwhelming guilt to someday being able to contact the hospital with a letter that doesn't say

What Are The Five Stages Of Grief?

[Mommiska]

Laila - to you.

[Xenogenesis]

Thank You Carolyn.

[Frankly Speaking]

Laila:

It's not that they leave the frenulum alone in adult circumcisions, it's in the difference in the way they do it. In an adult circumcision, there is no crushing clamp. (At least here in the states) and the foreskin is excised and the mucosal and shaft skin is sutured. It appears that this method with no crush line allows the blood supply and nerves to re-establish a connection. One of my friends who was circumcised as an adult has commented on the extreme sensitivity of his frenular delta and I surmise that is the reason.




Frank

[Xenogenesis]

Why won't they follow the same procedure during "Routine Infant Circumcisions" instead of guessing how much flesh to strip from the penis? Is it because the foreskin itself "has" to be ripped from the head of the penis to begin with?

[Teresa]

<<I know that for some men they have pleasurable sensations at their circumcision scar and find it to be one of the more sensitive areas of their skin>>

You know, I read this in one of the Lou Paget books and at the time, first thought it was totally fetish-like! Then after considering it, remembered how sensitive some scar tissue on my knee was for about 12 years after a cycling accident. Fortunately it's pretty much gone now and I can kneel & crawl about with the children easily.

I had never considered that that might be the location where the most nerve endings are in a circumcised man (DH is intact).
Interesting 'adaptation'--in a sad kind of way.

[Frankly Speaking]

Originally posted by Last Minute
Why won't they follow the same procedure during "Routine Infant Circumcisions" instead of guessing how much flesh to strip from the penis? Is it because the foreskin itself "has" to be ripped from the head of the penis to begin with?

No, it's because infant circumcision is a crush and slash kind of procedure. There is no concern as to where the scar is or how much mucosal remains. There is little concern for the cosmetics as the only one to complain won't be able to complain for many years and will most likely regard whatever he gets as normal. Infant circumcision is done with the procedure that is most convenient for the doctor. Quick, down and dirty! NEXT!

It's very different for an adult. The doctor has a patient to please. The cosmetic results must be very good for the patient to accept it. Some men even specify how much mucosal is to remain and the angle of the scar. The cutting is done sans crushing and the skin is stitched back together. I suspect this method allows the blood supply to make new connections better and for nerves to better re-establish their pathways. The adult also gets to specify if he wants a loose circ or a tight circ.

The difference is shown in the time involved. An infant circ takes about 5 minutes while an adult circ takes 30-45 minutes.




Frank

[hakunangovi]

Laila, I was circ'd as a baby - I don't know how old, and I have no idea as to the method used. However I can tell you that I seem to have retained quite a bit of my frenulum (based on pictures of normal male anatomy) and it is the most pleasurably sensitive part that is left. Maybe I was "lucky" and got a freehand job instead of a clamp.

[kimkabob5]

This may be TMI, but the men I've been with all said the most sensitive part was the area on the underside right below the head where the frenulum once was (they were all circumcised - well there were only three!) except for my dh who says the most sensitive part is on the top right on the corona. So I think it depends on exactly where the clamp was applied.