Can someone give me some info

[seren]

I am not trying to start a debate. Iw ould just like some info. What exactly is wrong with circ? I had my son done never thinkning it might not be good. Any info would be helpful. THanks!

[somemama]

http://www.mothering.com/10-0-0/html...cision85.shtml

[Gitti]

Dear Seren,

First of all, what's done is done. You can not change that, so it is best to accept it no matter what you will learn now.

But being born a boy does not necessitate surgery upon birth.

The foreskin is a natural part of all males and the vast majority of males in the world are not circumcised.
As a matter of fact, the U.S. is the only country in the world that does it routinely for none religious reasons.

But it is becoming a thing of the past here in the U.S. and if you stick around a bit, and lurk, you will be informed and maybe if you have another son you will chose to leave him intact.

Here is one of my favorite sites. Please check it out.

It’s a boy - http://www.circumstitions.com/Itsaboy.html

Good luck to you and your baby boy!

I am the proud grandma of 6 yr. old intact Samuel and not yet born intact baby boy to come in February. (And to be left intact!)

[Kylix]

What's wrong with circumcision?

It's not my body to alter. It should be my son's decision if he wants to remove a part of his body. We would never consider removing a part of our daughter's body without her permission especially if it is for purely cosmetic reasons.

For there is NO medical reason to remove the circumcision. It does not prevent infection and even if it did--that would be analogous to remove a child's tonsils at birth or removing a girl's breast tissue at birth because breast cancer runs in the family.

To me, it is a BASIC human rights issue. It is not my body. It is not my decision. Leave your child's sexual integrity INTACT.

Kylix

[momsmyjob]

When my boys were born I felt that it was something they were born with and mother nature intended for it to be there for a reason and I didn't feel it was my place to say it shouldn't be.

[Frankly Speaking]

Serenity:

Every one has a reason for doing it or not doing it and for everyone it is different. My reason for not doing it is because it is sexually damaging. The original intent for circumcision getting started in America was to reduce the sexual sensitivity of the penis. It was originally intended to stop boys from masturbating by removing a part that is very sexually sensitive and by also reducing the sexual sensitivity of the glans by exposing it. Just as for a woman, the glans of the penis is designed to be an internal organ like the clitoris, eyes or tongue All of the other reasons that have developed since then have come about just to justify continuing the procedure. There are no health benefits and the social benefits are spurious. That is well known now.

Imagine if you put a Band-Aid around your finger and left it there several weeks. I'm sure that you could see that finger would become much more sensitive to touch. The foreskin works like a Band-Aid for the penis, keeping it sensitive. It is very telling that circumcised men become impotent years before their intact counterparts. It is also now known that from a functional standpoint, the male frenulum is most analogous to the clitoris in sexual function and the frenulum is always disabled during infant male circumcision. From a functional standpoint, male infant circumcision is the same as cutting off the female's clitoris.

Adult men who have been circumcised typically report that after 3-5 years, their sexual sensitivity decreases by as much as 80%. Most are very unhappy with what they have chosen to do to themselves because they believed the myths.




Frank

[shelbean91]

Seren- don't feel too bad. Before dd was born, I hadn't known of anyone who hadn't circ'd their son either. If she had been a boy, we probably would have circ'd, just b/c I didn't know it wasn't an option. I found MDC when dd was about 6 mos old so I had enough time to figure out that I didn't want to do it if I had a son. So, ds is intact. DH was a little unsure about it at the time, but I didn't tell him until after- ds was born 5 weeks early, so we didn't have much time to discuss. I told him on the way home from the hospital.

[Quirky]

Seren, I am assuming you're Christian....if so, there are some websites out there that talk about some Biblical perspectives on circ. LMK if you're interested and I can find them for you (or maybe someone who has them closer to hand can do it).

[seren]

Jane, yes I am a Christian. I'm LDS, sometimes better known as Mormon. I would be very interested in those sites if it's not too much trouble. Thanks!

Serenity

[Frankly Speaking]

Seren:

Although it is a controversial issue, there is ample evidence that circumcision is sexually damaging. Common sense, reason and logic also tells us that it is. The foreskin is like a sleeve that completely surrounds the glans and preserves and protects it. Imagine a Band-Aid wrapped around your finger for a couple of weeks and how tender and sensitive that finger will be when you remove the Band-Aid. The foreskin does the same thing for the penis. Even though you have already circumcised one son and your husband is circumcised, they will have adequate sex lives but they will never have all of the sex lives they would have had if their penis hadn't been modified. Do you really want to damage the sex life of another son just because two men have already had their sex lives diminished? I think that is something that you should give serious consideration and I know you will. No one wants to deprive their son of something that gives such pleasure.

Religious discussion is not allowed here and I will not go into it except to say that Jesus shed his blood to end all blood sacrifices and circumcision is a blood sacrifice. God will not tell you to do this to your son but will tell you not to do it. I hope you don't mind but I'm going to send you some links in a Private Message if you have it enabled.




Frank

[seren]

Frank, yes my pm is enabled. Go ahead and send me some links. Thanks

[AnnMarie]

Originally posted by seren
I still haven't decided yet if I will circ my next son. Chances are I might. Dh wants to. Right now the biggest reason to circ another boy would be so he wouldn't be different from his daddy and his brother. But, I haven't decided yet.

I really hope you won't do it, especially for that reason. Do you see men going around comparing their penises? Is your father or FIL circumcised? You'd be surprised but a lot of people don't even know.......which throws the to look like Daddy reason out the window. Your husband and son already have a lot of differences, why must their penises be the same? If Daddy was missing a finger because his parents thought it was best to have it cut off at birth would you do the same to your son because you feel they should be the same, or would you do the research and do what's best for your son and realize there is no reason for them to be the same?

As to my birth center. I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

I disagree. Any place that offers circumcision has something wrong with it, especially when we're talking about midwives.

She didn't try to change our decision. And I don't think she shoul dhave.

You are very wrong. She should have told you the risks and that it's unnecessary. THAT is also her job, to make sure you are informed of all the pros and cons of any procedure you are offered. When I was pregnant with my last son I actually fired my first midwives because they did circumcisions, and without pain relief. Midwives to me stand for gentle births, certainly not the horror that circumcision brings for the baby.

If I do decide to circ another child it will be a very well informed and prayerful decision. We are very religious and no matter what info we recieve if we pray and God tells us to do it, then we will do it!

Remember, God put it there, who are we to take it off? We can't do better than his design. The foreskin does have a function...many actually.

Please look at these links:
http://www.intact.ca/video.html
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9712/23/ci...on.anesthetic/
http://www.cirp.org/library/pain/
http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/
http://www.cirp.org/
http://mothersagainstcirc.org/
http://www.infocirc.org/MensHlth.htm
http://www.mothering.com/10-0-0/html...cision85.shtml
http://faculty.washington.edu/gcd/DOC/

Last question.... would you ever consider circumcising your daughter? Some people do, and they use the same reasons people use for male circ: http://www.fgmnetwork.org/intro/mgmfgm.html

[shelbean91]

Aside from all the function a foreskin has, one of my main decisions to NOT circ was having a huge open wound in urine and feces for weeks was totally repulsive to me. I think of a paper cut with lemon juice and know how much that hurts- imagine a wound that much larger in that sensitive of a spot.

Even if you buy the 'it doesn't hurt during' argument, how could anyone think it doesn't hurt during the healing process?

It was hard for my DH to accept at first, but I'm the one who does all the research, etc. I told him if he could look at all I did and see the video of it happening and be willing to be there when it happened, he was welcome to take ds to the appt to have it done. I knew there was NO way he would ever do it. He trusted my judgement.

I'm not faulting your initial decision, like I said, I could have easily been in your position. However, if you take all the info and still decide to cut future sons, well....I don't even know what to say to that. Peer pressure (to look like dh, ds, locker room, etc.) is a really lousy reason to have major surgery. That's really all it is- any argument for circ - is basically a variation of peer pressure.

[AnnMarie]

Procedure,
http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/methods.html
http://www.intact.ca/video.html

General info,
http://www.mothering.com/10-0-0/html...cision85.shtml
http://www.circumcision.org/info.htm
http://www.noharmm.org/separated.htm
http://www.mensjournal.com/healthFit...cumcision.html
http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/ilearned.html

MGMvsFGM,
http://www.fgmnetwork.org/intro/mgmfgm.html
http://www.noharmm.org/comparison.htm
http://www.circumstitions.com/FGMvsMGM.html
http://www.circumstitions.com/Develop.html

Rates,
http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/bollinger2001/
http://www.courtchallenge.com/refs/rate1m.html
http://www.icgi.org/Downloads/normal...ircumcised.htm

Medical communities,
http://www.nocircnc/medicalstatements.htm
http://www.circumcision.org/studies.htm
http://www.intact.ca/saskmemo.html
http://www.icigi.org/Downloads/FullDisclosure.pdf

Risks and Complications,
http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/complications.html
http://www.nocirc.org/consent/form.html
http://www.infocirc.org/uti2.htm

Breastfeeding,
http://www.nocirc.org/statements/bre...ement2002.html

Cancer,
http://www.cirp.org/library/statemen...s/1996-02_ACS/

Personal experiences,
http://circumcisionquotes.com/menumen.html
http://www.circumcision.org/mothers.htm

IntactvsCirced penis care,
http://www.nocirc.org/publish/4pam.pdf
http://www.nocirc.org/publish/5pam.pdf
http://www.tornwing.com/peacefulbegi...ysgenitals.htm

Hygiene&problems
http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/vanhowe/

News articles,
http://www.cirp.org/news/

Pain,
http://www.circumcison.org/response.htm
http://www.infocirc.org/babypain.htm

Sexual side effects,
http://www.boystoo.com/medical/conversion.htm
http://www.reserach/cirp.org/
http://www.noem.org/lost.html
http://www.norm.org/lost.html


The Royal Australasian College of Physicians 2002 Position Statement. Routine Circumcision of Normal Male Infants and Boys - Summary Statement.
http://199.88.87.143/position/racp2002.htm

The American Academy of Family Physicians 2002 Statement. Position Statement on Neonatal Circumcision.
http://www.nocirc.org/position/aafp2002.html

The American Academy of Pediatrics states: "Existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn circumcision; however, these data are not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision."
http://www.nocirc.org/position/aap1999.htm

The American Cancer Society, states in a letter to the AAP: "We would like to discourage the American Academy of Pediatrics from promoting routine circumcision as a preventive measure for penile or cervical cancer... Perpetuating the mistaken belief that circumcision prevents cancer is inappropriate."
http://www.nocirc.org/position/acs.html

The American Medical Association:
http://www.nocirc.org/position/ama2000.html

The Australasian Association of Paediatric Surgeons states, "It is considered to be inappropriate and unnecessary as a routine to remove the prepuce, based on the current evidence available."
http://www.nocirc.org/position/aaps.html

The Australian College of Paediatrics, citing the Australasian Association of Paediatric Surgeons, states: "Routine male circumcision should not be performed prior to 6 months of age." In addition, it considers that, "neonatal male circumcision has no medical indication. It is a traumatic procedure, performed without anaesthesia to remove a normal functional and protective prepuce."
http://www.nocirc.org/position/acp.html


The British Medical Association Guidelines advise "The BMA opposes unnecessarily invasive procedures being used where alternative, less invasive techniques, are equally efficient and available."
http://www.nocirc.org/position/bma.html

The Canadian Paediatric Society recommends: "Circumcision of newborns should not be routinely performed."
http://www.nocirc.org/position/cps.html


For more go to: http://www.cirp.org/library/statements/

[somemama]

Seren, Welcome to the anti-circ board! (Since I'm not sure anyone has said that officially to you!) I live in Utah, where there is a complete lack of information about intactness (anti-circ.), so I understand what you are saying. I will PM you a couple of LDS-specific scriptures regarding circ, if that is ok.

Seren, here is a quote for you, by Maya Angelou: "When you know better, you do better." I think this completely applies to circ. And I think that is how you can explain it to your sons, if and when they ask someday--You did what you thought was right at the time, for both of them.

You might have one tall son, and one short son, or one son with a big nose and one son with a short nose, or one son with blue eyes and one son with brown eyes, etc. They don't have to look exactly the same to be brothers.

My dh is circ'd, my son is not. That is not what makes them father and son. I don't think the "penis difference" will matter to either of them.

Have you had a chance to read through the article I linked? It's very informative. A great book to read (by the same author--Dr. Paul Fleiss--is What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Circumcision. It discusses everything you need to know--including how to handle the father/son or brother/brother differences.

Did you watch the circ of your son? There are videos if you haven't seen the procedure performed.

It sounds like you tried to do what was best at the time with the information you had (back to the Maya Angelou quote.) You tried to get a good doctor and use anesthesia. Now, armed with new information, you can go to the next level, of leaving your son intact. (Are you pregnant currently? Sorry if I missed that.)

I applaud your willingness to learn something outside of your comfort zone. That is not always easy. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to discuss this more. I grew up very LDS, so I can discuss that with you, too. Best of luck. Parenting is never easy!!! Sincerely, Julie

[somemama]

P.S. There are mamas here (Last Minute comes to mind) who have circ'd one son and not the next. I know that seems radical, but it's really not. You do have the choice to leave the next one intact--it doesn't have to be automatic, just because you chose that in the past.

[Quirky]

ITA, mamajulie. Well said.

[Nemmer]

Thank you mamajulie! I also PM'd her the LDS specific scriptures. Seren, I really hope you understand that we do want to help you find the information and guidance you are looking for. Please feel free to browse this forum and continue to ask questions.

[Gemini]

I never heard any anti-circ stuff EVER before a friend asked my husband if we were having a boy, if we would circ or not. He gave us some articles on it, and then we decided we wouldn't if we ever had boys (he was anti-circ of course).

Other than that....nothing. My OB never volunteered any information to us. Not having any boys, I don't know what info I would have gotten in the hospital. And no, I wouldn't have asked for it either (meaning the pros and cons of it). As far as I knew, it was the norm and I didn't have the mind at the time to question it otherwise.

Seren~I have a good friend that has two boys, and they're older. One is 20 and the other is 15 now. The first son did get circ'ed for lack of information on my friends part. She wishes that she wouldn't have done it after getting more information years later. So when her second son was born she didn't circ. It has never ONCE been an issue for the younger son to look like his brother or his father. He is very close to my friend so she would hear from him there was any issues from his friends. If you don't make it an issue, it won't be an issue. That's what my friend said. Just some food for thought.

And another thing, the AAP doesn't recommend circ's anymore either. I believe they now say it is un-nessesary. Is that right ladies? Perhaps for me in my younger years of not being very knowledgable, knowing this may have swayed me to look into it more.

[Xenogenesis]

Can someone give me some info

Welcome to the boards, Serenity!

My five year old is circumcised.

My two year old was left intact.