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Would you vax an older child to help protect a younger child?  

post #1 of 25
8/31/08 at 12:28am
Thread Starter 
Would you vaccinate an older child to help protect a younger child? For example, vaccinating your toddler with the DTAP to help protect your newborn against pertussis? Dr Sears recommends in his book that older children, teens, and adults vaccinate against this to help protect newborns/infants (less spreading of the disease). We have a newborn due in Sept - and trying to figure out what to do with both of my children (newborn and toddler). I have learned a lot and continue to learn and make decisions. We have not vaxed DS since before he was 1. He is not 2.5 y/o.

FWIW, he has had 3 out of 4 of the DTAP vaccines. So he skipped the one at the 18mos visit.
post #2 of 25
8/31/08 at 2:01am
Odds are that's enough of the shot to confer "immunity" from the scientific view point.... but in blunt probably un"fluffy" terms: I would not poison one child to, in theory, maybe, possibly potentially, protect the other. Besides you can't keep the new babe in a bubble and even if you did choose to do boosters with whole family, the guy in the check out at the grocery may not have so.......See where I'm going with this? I am being a bit hard core, sorry... My dd was almost fully vaxed until 18 mos. old even after severe reaction : but as we learned more and had our second child 5 1/2 yrs later we chose no vaxes for him. She is old enough now for "her immunity to be waning", at least that's what I am told. I would not, though, choose to give her boosters to try to help her bro avoid the diseases. On principle if for no other reason. She will receive no other vaxes, ever.
post #3 of 25
8/31/08 at 2:53am
The pertussis vaccine does not prevent carriage and transmission, so no I wouldn't give that one for that reason.

-Angela
post #4 of 25
8/31/08 at 4:46am
Sorry but I dont see the justification of vaccinating an older child to keep another from getting sick?

How many adults no longer are vaccinated and around a baby? Would you ask anyone around your baby if they are up to date?

Just wondering
post #5 of 25
8/31/08 at 9:06am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
The pertussis vaccine does not prevent carriage and transmission, so no I wouldn't give that one for that reason.

-Angela
Can you please explain this? What does the vaccine prevent. The vaccine would help my son not get pertussis, right? Which means then he would not be able to transmit it if he never got it. Am I incorrect here? Still learning all the time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by loveyourohana View Post
Sorry but I dont see the justification of vaccinating an older child to keep another from getting sick?

How many adults no longer are vaccinated and around a baby? Would you ask anyone around your baby if they are up to date?

Just wondering
I totally understand what you are saying here. The reason I would be more likely to give my toddler son a vaccine is because he is older so in theory his immune system is more developed and the brain body barrier is more developed. So his larger, more developed body may be able to handle the vaccine better.

But...I am still learning and making decisions all the time. So not sure what I am going to do yet. It is a continual learning and decision making time for me.
post #6 of 25
8/31/08 at 9:51am
No, I did not vaccinate my older children when I had my youngest.
post #7 of 25
8/31/08 at 9:57am
No. By that theory, all people who come in contact with your newborn will need to recieve boosters/ etc. Is your older child in day care?
post #8 of 25
8/31/08 at 10:17am
Laura, I'm right along with ya.

I've got 4 DC, and another due in November, and I'm planning on DTaP boosters for them, so that they will be less likely to get pertussis and have it around my newborn.

My theory is that, yes it is a sucky vax with not so great prevention rate, but 60% is better than nothing. And that if they have some immunity to pertussis (like I believe the vax does give them *some*) then they will be able to fight it better, and not transmit to the baby, KWIM?

IDK about adults....I mean, I think adults are less likely to get pertussis (or are just better at fighting it) and I think that asymptomatic people are less likely to transmit than someone who is activly fighting infection, right?

Now this is all MNSHO for ME only, not trying to debate:
I'm of the camp of selective delayed vaxes, starting around 2yo, and DTaP is one of the first ones I've chosen for the teatnus and pertussis reasons. I think I have a moral obligation to use vaccines that are effective (if even marginally) and provide a "herd immunity" to our communitity. That's where I'm at...
post #9 of 25
8/31/08 at 10:29am
My understanding of the transmission issue comes from a study done in Israel that established that DTP did not prevent transmission of pertussis, but did prevent the clinical manifestation - ie coughing. So, while vaccinated people do not develop the cough, they can carry and transfer the illness itself. Also, adult carriers can carry and cough without knowing that they have WC as it is much milder in adults.

So, back to transmission. From the little that I do know, no study has been done on the DTaP and transmission. However, I cannot assume that the DTaP would prevent transmission when the DTP did not - I personally would like to see clinical trials/research that shows with certainty that DTaP does prevent transmission (or does not - whatever the conclusion would be). I am hoping someone else here has links to this.... if such information does exist.
post #10 of 25
8/31/08 at 10:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by laurabelle1317 View Post
Can you please explain this? What does the vaccine prevent. The vaccine would help my son not get pertussis, right? Which means then he would not be able to transmit it if he never got it. Am I incorrect here? Still learning all the time!
It IS confusing.

Okay- here's the basic layout-

Pertussis starts with a bacteria. The bacteria creates a toxin. The TOXIN is responsible for the worst of pertussis (the cough that is so intense)

The vax is against the TOXIN. It is designed to prevent the toxin from being made by the bacteria.

SO- even vaxed people can catch the BACTERIA and pass it on, even if the TOXIN never is created within their system.

Whoever they pass the bacteria on to can still have the toxin do its stuff in THEIR system.

Does that help?

-Angela
post #11 of 25
8/31/08 at 2:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
The pertussis vaccine does not prevent carriage and transmission, so no I wouldn't give that one for that reason.

-Angela
:
post #12 of 25
8/31/08 at 5:01pm
I would start by researching each vaccine, look at the studies on each one, read the vaers reports on each one, and not look at age. Even adults can have devistating reactions to vaccines! There is a danger on both ends both vaccs and unvacc. I personally believe mercury poisoning is being misdiagnosed as autism. As well as aluminum, and allergic reactions. My son reacted though! And a 1 in 150 chance is not worth the risk in my eyes for my child, but you may be in a different mindset. I would suggest not making a choice one way or another until you have researched everything. I left a thread here on former NIH president, and her views on CBS, if your interested.

You may want to take a look also at the fact that some vaccines shed... meaning if you give your older child a vaccine that sheds, you could be creating more of a risk than not vaccinating around a newborn. Your newborn could end up with a disease because you vaccinated the older sibling. I cant tell you offhand which ones, but its something to look further into

As far as the DPT... The DPT is the MOST reactive vaccination, even over MMR, they see more reactions with it than any other vaccine given! And usually it is to the Pertussis strain! That is why they have DT. It is bad enough that if I ever considered partially vaccinating the DpT wouldn't even be an option!

You have some reading to do mama, but there is tons of information here on mothering. I will PM you what I have found to be useful if you would like.
post #13 of 25
8/31/08 at 10:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by taterbug1999 View Post
I would not poison one child to, in theory, maybe, possibly potentially, protect the other.
ITA. I am not vaxing because I believe many ingredients in vaccines are potentially dangerous. I also don't think vaccines are effective. Since these are my reasons for not vaxing. There is no way I would vaccinate ANY of my children.
post #14 of 25
8/31/08 at 11:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by loveyourohana View Post
As far as the DPT... The DPT is the MOST reactive vaccination, even over MMR, they see more reactions with it than any other vaccine given! And usually it is to the Pertussis strain! That is why they have DT. It is bad enough that if I ever considered partially vaccinating the DpT wouldn't even be an option!
Just to be clear and state the over-obvious: The DPT is not given anymore; now it's DTaP. I'm guessing that's the one you're referring to?
post #15 of 25
8/31/08 at 11:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nummies View Post
Is your older child in day care?
No, he is not in day care. He is home with me each day. Has playdates with some vaxed and some unvaxed kids. And he is in church nursery on Sundays with just a few other kids - that would be the closest thing to day care, but no, not any daycare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post

Does that help?

-Angela
It does help. Thank you. Would you mind looking at my other thread too and seeing if you have any input on it? http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=959310

Quote:
Originally Posted by loveyourohana View Post

You have some reading to do mama, but there is tons of information here on mothering. I will PM you what I have found to be useful if you would like.
I have been reading, and researching and re-reading and re-researching. It is never ending, ya know?

I would love for you to PM to me what has been useful to you. Thanks!


Thanks everyone for your help and insight.
post #16 of 25
9/1/08 at 12:45am
have you read about this private study of american children showing that vaxed kids have a higher incidence of allergies and neurological disorders?
post #17 of 25
9/1/08 at 11:28am
Nope. Because, as others have pointed out, the vax doesn't prevent transmission - it just keeps you from 'getting sick'. So you can still pass it on. So, theres no point.
post #18 of 25
9/1/08 at 12:32pm
Since DTaP does not prevent the person from harboring and spreading the disease no I would not vaccinate my older child or anyone else against it with the idea that it would protect someone else.
post #19 of 25
9/1/08 at 4:14pm
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post #20 of 25
9/1/08 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by junomama View Post
Just to be clear and state the over-obvious: The DPT is not given anymore; now it's DTaP. I'm guessing that's the one you're referring to?
Yes the DTaP... I write from my phone sometimes so I don't always catch those small and yet sig. Mistakes.
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