Preparing for a nasty teacher

[sebandg'smama]

School starts next week for ds. He is anxious about starting french. He likes the idea of learning a new language, but the reputation of the teacher, "Mr. French" is terrible.

From other parents I have heard how he singles kids out, shames and berates them. There are 2 teachers at this school who have a child with this teacher and they try to do their prep work in the class so that they can observe Mr. French.

A few parents years ago tried to have him fired with no success.

Basically we have told ds (who is highly sensitive) to just work hard, don't bring attention to himself, try to stay away from Mr. French. He's not a kid who gets in trouble, but it breaks my heart about the possibility that he will be a target or a witness to Mr. French. sigh.
I will write a letter/speak to him and the principal if a situation arises.

But in the meantime, does anyone have any suggestions on how to weather a mean teacher?

[supervee]

Don't cry. They love that.

[miss_sonja]

I couldn't read and not post...that sucks. Is there any alternative?

[karne]

Is French required for your ds? I had a very difficult 5th gr. teacher in elem. school. While there wasn't an option of moving out of the class (small private school, one grade teacher for each grade), what DID help me was my parents support. They never doubted how difficult or stressed I was, never blamed me or asked me to try harder. They supported as best they could, spoke to the teacher as necessary, and I just made it through. I'll never forget it.

[CarrieMF]

the parents should keep at both the principal & the school board about this teacher. The principal here fired a teacher 2 years ago becuase of complaints from the parents.

FWIW I had a horrid French Teacher, we didn't start until Grade 7 & it was mandatory from 7-9. I elected to take French in Grade 10. There were 44 kids in our grade, in Grade 10 28 of us were in French. By Grade 12 8 kids were, the teacher's DD & her friends. Nasty doesn't begin to describe this guy, we never got along from the start but I was never a kid to put up with his BS either. We used to play these silly games(in english, not even in french). I started to refuse to play them in Grade 8 so his "punishment" was for me to write out verbs, boohoo I was learning. By Grade 9 there were 6 of use writing verbs during these play classes.

I know some of the parents tried to get this guy fired too, but the board wouldn't do it. I'd document ANYTHING and EVERYTHING this guy does. If your son was older I'd suggest have him hide a tape recorder or something.

[BCFD]

Originally Posted by CarrieMF

If your son was older I'd suggest have him hide a tape recorder or something.

Ohh...that's so sneaky that I love it!!! He's 9? I say give him the tape recorder!!! Just tell him to be discreet with it. Can they use taping devices for notes? If so, I'd say it was for that.

[sebandg'smama]

Originally Posted by miss_sonja

I couldn't read and not post...that sucks. Is there any alternative?

Sadly, there is no alternative. He has to take french (which I want him to and so does he) and this teacher travels to a few different schools.

I was just lying down with my son as he poured out all his anxieties before he fell asleep. I let him know that we would back him up and help him learn the language so that he doesn't have to ask the teacher questions in class.

I will document everything.
I love the idea of taping the teacher, but don't think that is feasible.

Thanks for your responses.

Has anybody had any experience of going to the school board with complaints? I do not have a lot of faith in this principle (not an unkind person, she just doesn't inspired confidence, yk?), but wonder if I have to go through her first or if I can go straight to the board?

[LilyGrace]

Check your laws with the tape recorder. Some areas don't permit it if the person you are recording isn't aware.

I had a nasty teacher in 7th grade. Her name was Mrs. Rude. Really. Anyhow, she yelled, berated, and screamed at us from the 2nd day of school on. It quickly escalated to the point of her throwing things at us.

Every day I went to the office directly after class and filled out a complaint form, detailing what happened that day. So did a few other kids. It wasn't until it got really bad around March that I decided to circulate a petition because nothing else was working. The principal and office staff was 'pooh-poohing' us, claiming it wasn't that bad. So I recorded her one day, and brought the petition around to every 7th and 8th grader the day after. I still remember exactly what it said: This is a petition to disemploy Mrs. Rude from her position at _____ School. And I remember because she found out about both the tape and the petition, hauled my butt down to the principal and grabbed my best friend on the way. Our parents were called and then the fun began. First, I learned that I was not allowed to tape her. It would never count because she wasn't aware. Then I was threatened by the teacher that she was going to sue me for libel (the petition), and she continued her tantrum by screaming that she never screamed at her students and I was making it all up.

That was enough. Parents, principal, office, courtyard...all heard her ranting like a lunatic. She was removed from the school the next year and sent to a different position (tenured, couldn't be fired easily). I still have no idea why my mom didn't back me up sooner, but oh well.

And out of it I grew an intense dislike for math, plummeting down from being on the math team the years previous to needing to repeat algebra 3 times before I got it.

So.......now as a parent, I say step in when needed, stand up for your child's rights to be in a learning environment (check your handbook and learn the school statement by heart, usually it's something like "we pledge that every child at X Elementary will have the chance to grow and learn...blah, blah, blah), and don't back down until a plan is made that is acceptable. Teach your child how to reach out, too, how to be the squeaky wheel and fill out complaint forms. They go in the teacher's file and retribution should not be tolerated at all. If the school doesn't have a standard form, help him make his own, recording the abuse every day and requesting a copy for himself so you both have a paper trail of what is going on. If he doesn't learn French this year he'll at least learn how to handle civil rights.

[CarrieMF]

You don't HAVE to go to the principal first, but I would at least once. Then go to the school board if the P doesn't do anything.

[phathui5]

Could he take French somewhere else? Our local community college offers foreign language classes for children. You could get him tapes, or a tutor. There have got to be other options.

[Baby Makes 4]

That's tough. My son had a horrible teacher in grade 2. Madame Legoth. She never should have been allowed around children.

We found out that he was going to have Mme. Legoth again for grade 3 and we switched him from the French program to the English program to avoid her. It wasn't worth the damage to my son's self esteem to have him sit through another year with her.

She actually called me at home and screamed at me over the phone when she found out what we had done and why. Crazy!

[daisymama12]

Is there the remote possibility that your son will not mind the teacher? It isn't necessarily a foregone conclusion that it/he will be awful.

There is a teacher in my ds's school who is strongly disliked by some parents, they have petitioned against her, etc. and some parents like her, and I know one mama well who actually requested her for her second son!

My sister was dreading grade 6 for her daughter, because she got the dreaded Mme. H. We talked on the phone all summer about it, and it turned out great - not only fine, but actually great.

And if he turns out to be horrid, the pp's have good suggestions.

Good luck!

[sebandg'smama]

Originally Posted by LilyGrace

Check your laws with the tape recorder. Some areas don't permit it if the person you are recording isn't aware.

I had a nasty teacher in 7th grade. Her name was Mrs. Rude. Really. Anyhow, she yelled, berated, and screamed at us from the 2nd day of school on. It quickly escalated to the point of her throwing things at us.

Every day I went to the office directly after class and filled out a complaint form, detailing what happened that day. So did a few other kids. It wasn't until it got really bad around March that I decided to circulate a petition because nothing else was working. The principal and office staff was 'pooh-poohing' us, claiming it wasn't that bad. So I recorded her one day, and brought the petition around to every 7th and 8th grader the day after. I still remember exactly what it said: This is a petition to disemploy Mrs. Rude from her position at _____ School. And I remember because she found out about both the tape and the petition, hauled my butt down to the principal and grabbed my best friend on the way. Our parents were called and then the fun began. First, I learned that I was not allowed to tape her. It would never count because she wasn't aware. Then I was threatened by the teacher that she was going to sue me for libel (the petition), and she continued her tantrum by screaming that she never screamed at her students and I was making it all up.

That was enough. Parents, principal, office, courtyard...all heard her ranting like a lunatic. She was removed from the school the next year and sent to a different position (tenured, couldn't be fired easily). I still have no idea why my mom didn't back me up sooner, but oh well.

And out of it I grew an intense dislike for math, plummeting down from being on the math team the years previous to needing to repeat algebra 3 times before I got it.

So.......now as a parent, I say step in when needed, stand up for your child's rights to be in a learning environment (check your handbook and learn the school statement by heart, usually it's something like "we pledge that every child at X Elementary will have the chance to grow and learn...blah, blah, blah), and don't back down until a plan is made that is acceptable. Teach your child how to reach out, too, how to be the squeaky wheel and fill out complaint forms. They go in the teacher's file and retribution should not be tolerated at all. If the school doesn't have a standard form, help him make his own, recording the abuse every day and requesting a copy for himself so you both have a paper trail of what is going on. If he doesn't learn French this year he'll at least learn how to handle civil rights.

I am so impressed that your 7th grade self was able to organize so well!

I would like to empower my ds to stand up for himself and others.

Ya know, my heart is with homeschooling, and this is enough for me to want to pull him out. I gave him that option. He has had amazing teachers so far, and his grade 4 teacher is one of the best in the school. He wants to go to school.
sigh. I wonder when Mr. French will be up for retirement.

Daisymama12, he's had the teacher in his class a few times (substituting) and was scared by him.

[_betsy_]

I would tell him not to rely on the hearsay of others, and to give Mr. French a chance. Maybe he'll end up loving the class. Maybe he'll end up liking Mr. French. Maybe it isn't as bad as it's made out to be, and he should keep an open mind and decide for himself.

[mojumi]

Originally Posted by sebandg'smama

From other parents I have heard how he singles kids out, shames and berates them. There are 2 teachers at this school who have a child with this teacher and they try to do their prep work in the class so that they can observe Mr. French.

In my experience there can be a cultural difference between native-french French teachers and american teachers. The french idea of 'strict' could easily be the american idea of 'mean.'

However, that you mention that other teachers who work with Mr. French feel they want be present in the classroom with their children while he teaches them signals to me that there is something very wrong with this teacher.

I have had personal experience with a 'mean' french teacher who selected individuals to humiliate. It was terrible for everyone -- the child who was made to feel the object of scorn and ridicule every class, and the classmates who had to watch and either go along or become targets themselves. I would never want that for my child.

If other parents (the teachers you mention) are able to sit in on classes, perhaps you could as well? Then you'd have either a first-hand sense of what is going on, or your presence would keep Mr. French's behavior in line. Or both. And if you keep a journal of everything your son describes to you as happening (or that you witness) in the class, then you can refer to it if a meeting with the teacher/administration feels necessary.

Good luck to you and your son.

[rabrog]

If it were that bad, I'd be sitting in the class every darn day. Don't go to the principal or the board until you have what you need for something to happen. I'm sure after you go to the board, you do not want your child in this teacher's class again.

Jenn

[Callimom]

Is he in French Immersion or will he be taking French with this teacher and the bulk of his classes with other teachers. For me it would affect how I would approach it.

In either case, I'd suggest talking to him about respect.
If it were my child I would counsel him to behave with respect towards the position of the teacher, but to also expect that he would receive that level of respect back and that if he doesn't it reflects on the teacher and not on him.
I'd tell him that if he ever felt scared that he had my permission to leave the classroom and go to the principal's office (or his primary teacher if Mr French isn't for help), or to ask the secretary to call you.
I would let him know I wanted to know how the classes went and that I would support him and help him however I could.
If Mr French is the full time teacher, would probably pull him out of class semi regularly to give him a break and I would make it clear to the principal that this is why you were doing it. In Ontario you can remove a child for music instruction for 1/2 a day each week. A girlfriend had a similar challenge last year and she used that as leverage to get her son out of class for a break. She scheduled music for right after lunch and he just didn't go back to class.
Good luck
Karen

[PGNPORTLAND]

Originally Posted by sebandg'smama

From other parents I have heard how he singles kids out, shames and berates them. There are 2 teachers at this school who have a child with this teacher and they try to do their prep work in the class so that they can observe Mr. French.

I'm not sure why he has to be in that classroom. Would you send your child anywhere else where you heard he might be treated this way? I would agree with skipping the french class and putting him in a french class at a community college? Hire a tutor and split the cost with other parents who don't want their children exposed to this kind of treatment?

I am speaking as someone who had teachers like this throughout my years of primary and high school. I was a "good" quiet kid and yet I still feel traumatized by the experience of these "teachers".

[ChristaN]

You might want to consider reading the book Snakes in Suits. It has some good tips for how to avoid becoming the target of a psychopath in your workplace. Some of the same ideas might be good to pass on to your son to avoid becoming the target of the psycho teacher.

I do empathize with having a sensitive child who will have a hard time even witnessing the berating of other students, though.

[Ms Apricot]

We've had the "mean" teacher twice (different teachers). I've had some success by meeting with the teacher and just letting them know that I'm aware of what happens in the classroom and implying, without stating directly, that I'll take steps to intervene if there is a problem. I keep it civil and professional, even sympathize a little about the difficulties facing teachers - accommodating different needs, large class sizes etc. I find that if the "tough" teacher knows we don't mind "tough" but won't tolerate "mean" (unfair, unreasonable expectations, negative reinforcement), they lighten up - at least with my kid. I let them know that my child responds best to positive reinforcement - what are they going to say to me - they know that belittling and cruel comments aren't appropriate.

It's bullying - an adult bully vs. child victims - so it helps to read up about bullies and tactics to deal with them.