charting to avoid September! - Page 6

[MarineWife]

Originally Posted by ladyinred

Just a quick question about my cycle this time. Occasionally I have cycles like this where the spotting just never seems to end but I'm not really sure why. This cycle AF "finished" then I had two days of spotting one day of nothing and then another day of spotting yesterday. What gives? How can I stop this? It's very annoying :P

I don't really know that there's anything you can do about the spotting. From looking at your chart so far, I doubt a doc would do much since it's still so early in your cycle. If it continued throughout your cycle, a doc would probably just tell you to take bc pills.

[Marlet]

So the way our bedroom is arranged I tend to think of lunaception often since the moon comes right in on our bed. So last night I was laying there willing my body to do soemthing and be done with whatever by Wednesday. Before I had gone to bed I played around with fake temps. to see how many it would take to get an o date and was a tad discouraged.

This morning I woke up 45 mins. early and my temp. was high! Now I know this means nothing really but it's higher than it's been for a bit and if I let the software adjust it (I did at first but was nervous it would just get my hopes up so I unadjusted it ) it's really high. I just wish this cycle would end!

[Twinklefae]

OtherMother'n'Madre :

Ug. First holes in my chart this month. Yesterday morning I acidentally wasted the memory while carrying the thermomtere down the hall, (it's a one shot deal) and this morning I forgot to put the thermometre back beside the bed. It's there now, so hopefully we'll get right back on track, but I was really hoping to get through a cycle without holes.

[ladyinred]

lol FF gave me dotted crosshairs this morning! Hilarious! I so know I haven't ovulated. Those two higher temps were because I woke up late over the weekend.

Sarah - I don't think the holes this early on should make too much of a difference, but I know what you mean, I hate having holes.

[CanidFL]

Originally Posted by Twinklefae

Ug. First holes in my chart this month. Yesterday morning I acidentally wasted the memory while carrying the thermomtere down the hall, (it's a one shot deal) and this morning I forgot to put the thermometre back beside the bed. It's there now, so hopefully we'll get right back on track, but I was really hoping to get through a cycle without holes.

That sucks. Can you get a thermometer with better memory?

Not much happening for me. My temps have been a little high but my sleep has been TERRIBLE for about a week

[MarineWife]

I hate missing data, too.

ladyinred ~ That's a perfect example of a reason not to pay for FF.

Nothing much going on with me, either. I had ewcf and hso cp for a day and then went back to creamy and mmm but no temp rise. My temp has actually been going down. My body tricked me again. It does this every cycle around the "normal" O time, cd14.

[Marlet]

I got some more questions.

1. On the "if dry all day you are safe for sex after 6 pm" rule when does your time count start over? At midnight when it's technically the next day?
2. I know you are supposed to be consistent with how you check CM (i.e. internally should be internally the whole cycle). I checked my cervix this afternoon and noticed EWCM. I know to mark that since it's the most fertile I've had today but I don't normally check internally so today would not be consistent. Is that ok? Should I make a note it was done internally jic?
3. Can someone explain the pre-o temp. dip to me? I was fooling around with my FF chart last night and entering in faux temps. to see when it would give me an o date (yes I do that often ) and it gave me one that I wouldn't agree with. I think it did it BECAUSE of a temp. dip and for no other reason (my settings are set to FAM but we know FF likes to give bad o dates). I know ovusoft won't just dole 'em out based off that. If I'm right and I did o it would be yesterday or today but FF won't agree with that. So what's up with the temp. dips?

[MarineWife]

Pre-O temp dip according to TCOYF: It occurs on the day of ovulation and is caused by high levels of estrogen. It's one of those hindsight things. You can't know you've had a pre-O dip until after you see a thermal shift. It doesn't change anything in terms of cta.

In regards to how to check CF, I think now that you have checked internally and found ewcf you should continue to check internally the rest of your cycle.

I'm not clear on what you are asking with the dry day rule. If you have been anov and have had fertile CF, you can follow the dry day rule after 4 days of dry or no cf. In other words, if you are dry for 4 days, you are safe to dtd the night of the 4th day. However, if you are not anov, the dry day rule only applies before you have any fertile cf. If you have had ovulatory cycles, once you get fertile CF, you are supposed to consider yourself potentially fertile until you O even if your CF dries up before you get a thermal shift. Does that make sense?

I need a new book. Every time I open mine pages fall out.

[Marlet]

Does everyone get a preo dip though? Or is it as random as everything else? Meaning can a chart show ovulation without any semblence of a preo dip?

On the dry day one what I mean is say I had a dry day (in general) and by 6 pm had been dry all day. Say I don't get a chance to get freaky until 1 am. Am I still safe or do I need to restart the count down to 6 pm again since it's technically a new day? When does the count down start over?

And as for cm, I wasn't trying to check internally. I was checking CP and noticed it then. I have yet to see any actually manifest since then (I'm between sticky and dry externally right now).


Oh and I was reading my TCOYF last nght and ran across the 5 day rule. I think it was you Marinewife, but last month someone was asking why that doesn't apply if you have a short lp. It doesn't say but it does say you aren't totally out. It becomes a modified rule if the cycle was 25 days or less and you are safe the first 3 days. Not sure if that got mentioned last month but I thought I'd throw it out there.

[MarineWife]

Some women get a pre-O dip every cycle. Some women notice it sometimes. Some women never get one. I don't think I've ever had one single very low temp the day before my thermal shift but my temp does seem to usually migrate downward for several days before O.

WRT to the dry day rule, I don't think you start over at midnight. I think the day starts over the next morning. That's what makes sense to me, anyway. I count charting days from temp time to temp time, so say 6:00 am to 6:00 am.

I'd still continue to check internally now that you've noticed ewcf internally. If you hadn't noticed any fertile CF, I'd say don't worry about it. However, now that you know you have fertile CF internally and not externally if you continue checking externally you could be fertile and not realize it.

Thanks for the clarification on the first 5 days rule and a short lp.

[CanidFL]

Originally Posted by OtherMother'n'Madre

Does everyone get a preo dip though? Or is it as random as everything else? Meaning can a chart show ovulation without any semblence of a preo dip?

On the dry day one what I mean is say I had a dry day (in general) and by 6 pm had been dry all day. Say I don't get a chance to get freaky until 1 am. Am I still safe or do I need to restart the count down to 6 pm again since it's technically a new day? When does the count down start over?

Anyone can get it during any cycle. It is variable. You can have O without a pre O dip. I would say you are safe from 6pm-6am or so. You are safe all night long unless you get tons of EWCM

Originally Posted by MarineWife

If you have had ovulatory cycles, once you get fertile CF, you are supposed to consider yourself potentially fertile until you O even if your CF dries up before you get a thermal shift. Does that make sense?

I need a new book. Every time I open mine pages fall out.

hmmm that is not how I read it. It said if you have long cycles then you can count yourself safe at 4 dry days after ewcm. They gave an example of a girl who went on vacation and was getting ewcm every 7 days or so but had 4 dry days in between and she was safe on the night of the fourth. I will have to read it again because you wouldn't know you O'd until after the thermal shift kwim?

I agree that you should continue checking internally now. I personally always check internally. There have been many times where I fell dry outside only to find globs of ewcm on the inside. I would have missed it if I didn't check internally.

[MarineWife]

Originally Posted by CanidFL

hmmm that is not how I read it. It said if you have long cycles then you can count yourself safe at 4 dry days after ewcm. They gave an example of a girl who went on vacation and was getting ewcm every 7 days or so but had 4 dry days in between and she was safe on the night of the fourth. I will have to read it again because you wouldn't know you O'd until after the thermal shift kwim?

I got that stuff about being anov from the section on charting after birth and while breastfeeding. I think the scenario was if you had not had an ovulatory cycle after giving birth but were getting intermittent patches of fertile CF. Personally, I would go with what you've said. If I have fertile CF and then dry up but don't have a thermal shift, I consider myself safe after the 4th dry day. That's because I know I have long cycles with at least 2 patches of fertile CF before I O. I don't know how that applies to others who don't have that pattern. For example, if you are ovulatory and your cycles are relatively normal length and regular and you are having an out of ordinary cycle where you get fertile CF and then dry up but don't get a thermal shift, you could still O at any time and, therefore, still be fertile.

The peak day rule says you are safe the evening of the 4th consecutive day after your peak day. The temperature shift rule says you are safe the evening of the 3rd consecutive day your temp is above the CL. These two should normally coincide so the 4th day after your peak will be the 3rd day of high temps. However, if they don't match up, you should wait until both rules have been met before considering yourself safe.

There's the patch rule that says you are safe the 4th consecutive nonwet day after your peak day but that's in Appendix B under special circumstances like being annovulatory or breastfeeding. I didn't think that applied to normal situations. Am I misunderstanding or missing another section about this?

[Sk8ermaiden]

I think I've read only 10% of women get a pre-O temp dip.

[CanidFL]

Originally Posted by MarineWife

There's the patch rule that says you are safe the 4th consecutive nonwet day after your peak day but that's in Appendix B under special circumstances like being annovulatory or breastfeeding. I didn't think that applied to normal situations. Am I misunderstanding or missing another section about this?

ahhh yes. I always seem to fall under "special circumstances" so that is probably why I follow that rule and it is stuck in my head. With the pcos and nursing I think I fall under this. I don't think a typical textbook cycle would have a patch of ewcm then dry up for 4 days without an O so no need to worry about it if you have regular cycles.

[AnnieA]

With regard to Pre-O dips, I had one this cycle and I thought it was odd because I didn't think I had ever done that. But I just went back and looked at my other cycles and it seems like about half the time, I get a Pre-O dip. Some cycles it is more pronounced than others. This cycle was very pronounced. I haven't been able to figure out the pattern of why it happens sometimes and not others.

[CanidFL]

Originally Posted by AnnieA

With regard to Pre-O dips, I had one this cycle and I thought it was odd because I didn't think I had ever done that. But I just went back and looked at my other cycles and it seems like about half the time, I get a Pre-O dip. Some cycles it is more pronounced than others. This cycle was very pronounced. I haven't been able to figure out the pattern of why it happens sometimes and not others.

Your chart is so pretty. I'm jealous

Not sure on the pre o dip. I have had it during a few cycles too but some cycles I have that gradual climb where it's hard to detect an O until you are 5 or 6 dpo

[MarineWife]

Originally Posted by CanidFL

ahhh yes. I always seem to fall under "special circumstances" so that is probably why I follow that rule and it is stuck in my head. With the pcos and nursing I think I fall under this. I don't think a typical textbook cycle would have a patch of ewcm then dry up for 4 days without an O so no need to worry about it if you have regular cycles.

Yeah, I'm in the special circumstances category all the time, too.

This morning I couldn't find my regular thermometer so I had to use my back up. It's the same brand. A couple of hours later I found my regular one and took my temp with that, too. The temp was the same even though I had sort of slept for another couple of hours.

[AnnieA]

Originally Posted by CanidFL

Your chart is so pretty. I'm jealous

Thanks! It helps to not have smaller children or nurslings! Also regardless of what time I need to wake up, I set my alarm on my phone to wake up at 5 AM every morning to temp and then if I am able to, I go back to sleep. I always had trouble remembering to take my BCP at the same time every day but I have never had trouble taking my temp at the same time every day!

[angelxxrose]

This is my first month off BCP and we are CTA. I think I agree with FF that I O'ed on CD 25 but I know FF can be wrong. Does it look like I O'ed then? Feel free to give any other observations about my chart. I am still learning to interpret everything!

Here is a link to my chart - http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/21137a

Edited to say - thank you in advance!

[CanidFL]

I would say you O'd on the 8th with a coverline at 97.5. Looks like you have a gradual rise too. The 9th-11th are 3 days in a row that are above the highest temp of the previous 6 days. Hope that makes sense Sometimes I don't explain things well in words.

ETA: Plus it looks like you still had EWCM on the 7th so that leads me to think you O'd on the 8th. BUT if you had something going on on the 4th like bad sleep then you could discard that temp and the FF is probably right.