ABC TV explores, was Jesus married?

[DaryLLL]

Tonight, 8PM eastern, ABC TV has a show, Jesus, Mary and Da Vinci. Seems it takes off where the popular bestseller The Da Vinci Code leaves off, to explore differing theories about the relationship between Jesus and Mary Magdelene.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/World...i031103-1.html

Taking this along with the consecration of the first gay Anglican Bishop, IMHO the world of Christianity is getting very hot.

[DaryLLL]

Dang, my dh just told me, we will not get this show b/c the Patriots are playing on Monday Night football, and our local ABC affiliate is having an hour long pre-game show! So, no "Primetime" show.

If anyone gets to see it, can you post a review? We also found it is going to be re-broadcast at 2AM, but our VCR won't record and I know I won't be able to stay up that late.

[kama'aina mama]

I'm reminded of something Susan Sarandon said in an interview I saw. She got in trouble in Catholic school for asking the nuns "Well, if Catholic marriages are the only ones that count and Jesus invented Catholicism does that mean MAry and Joseph weren't really married??" And she swears she was honestly young and naive... not being a brat. She REALLY wanted an answer!

Daryyllll My local does some screwy things... I will try help you out if I can.

[DaryLLL]

Thanks, kama! Actually my dh has come thru (he is interested in this subject too) and fussed with the VCR and has seemed to get it working!

In ref to whether Joseph and Mary had a good Catholic marriage, :LOL

I know they were betrothed when she conceived, but were they actually said to be married after that, and before the birth? I would need to look that up.

CNN.com has an article about the show too now, jarringly juxtaposed with a racy Victoria's Secret ad--

http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/TV/1....ap/index.html

[Teresa]

I think that since Joseph and Mary (and Jesus, too, of course) were Jewish they were probably engaged/married in accordance with the Jewish rituals of the time.

[Paxetbonum]

slightly OT, but just so y'all know, Catholics don't beleive that Catholic marriages are the only ones that "count." THey just view a sacramental marriage as requireing two baptized persons, that's all. The sacrament of matrimony is enacted by the married persons in their bedroom on their wedding night and thereafter. Not by a preist. He is merely a witness to their vows.

Mary and Joseph had a perfectley valid marriage in the Hebrew tradition. They never consumated their marriage so it was not really sacramental in that respect.

[kama'aina mama]

Forgive me! I shouldn't have left that misunderstanding hanging around like a bad stink! Ms Sarandon was young when she asked these questions and they reflect a childish understanding (mis!) of some of the basic issues. It was, in part, a comment on the nuns that they failed to see her childishness and took it immediately for disrespect.

paxetbonum, you know that last statement of yours is controversial. Many people believe that Jesus had younger siblings. That even if you believe in the Virgin Birth (which again, not all Christian do) it is possible that at some time after the Nativity their marriage became a real one.

Darylll, have you seen the show? How was it?

[Megan_Cherry]

I saw it. Very interesting! I don’t know where to begin. They basically where saying that there is no proof either way of Jesus’ marital status. They say that the reason no one knows much about it is because Mary and the child were wisked away after JC's death and resurrection. The search for the Holy Grail is not a challis but the blood line of Christ. This blood line was protected by a secret society that included Da Vinci. So Da Vinci left a clue to this idea in his painting of the last supper. On Jesus’ right hand side there is a very feminine looking Peter. But people say that Da Vinci was really painting Mary of Magdala. He also left out the cup or the Holy Grail . . . or did he?
Then they were looking at the scene in the garden when Mary first sees the resurrected Christ. He says "Don’t touch me” or other interpretations "Don’t embrace me." This seems a bit of a stretch but supposedly a woman would not hug another man unless he was her husband. Husband or not I think any woman who was a close personal friend of Jesus would have the reaction of wanting to hug him after coming back to life after such a horrible death.
Lastly the special looked at the Gnostic gospels of Thomas and Mary Magdalene. Said to have been uncovered only 50 years ago and suppressed by the early church these were the lost gospels. In these gospels Jesus was said to have frequently kissed Mary on the (hole in the page). They were old scrolls so our imaginations can run free on that one. This also brought up the idea that in the 5 century AD the pope declared that Mary was a prostitute in order to make her look bad, maybe to help bury her writings. The Vatican finally admitted that this idea was untrue in 1969. Boy, what else are they gonna come around to admitting in the future?
It concluded by saying that although there is no real evidence of Jesus’ and Mary’s secret marriage, it is true that Christianity has over looked how truly important Mary was to Jesus as an apostle.

[DaryLLL]

I just finished watching the tape. Had chorus with my dd's this morning, then lunch. It was supposed to be re-broadcast at 2AM last night and dh couldn't get the timer to work, but between him and dd they got it taped. It finally came on at an odd time, like 2:35 or something. For once I am glad they are night owls.

So, I thought it was good, for an hour show. Some of the impt authors in the field, Pagels, Starbird, one of the authors of Holy Blood Holy Grail, and of course, Dan Brown the author of The Da Vinci Code, were interviewed.

Also a couple pastors and priests, theologians and art historians.

Most of the info was familiar to me. They did not delve deeply enough into the legends in Southern France about St Sarah the Egyptian, and the huge prevelance of black Madonnas there. Apparently there are dozens of churches and shrines dedicated to MM and St Sarah there. (That legend goes that after Jesus' death and resurrection, MM was taken by boat, along with a few other disciples, first to Egypt, then to Provence, to escape persecution by enemies of Jesus. She was supposed to be pg or already to have had their child[ren] by then. St Sarah could have been their "black" child, as MM may have been Egyptian herself in the first place. There was no town of Magdala on Lk Galilee back then [nor a Nazereth for that matter]. Magda, or a similar word, means tower in Hebrew, ie: pertaining to her as a tower of faith. You could say, Mary the Great.)

So, the show covered the fact that the Holy Grail (chalice, wine cup) was not depicted in Da Vinci's painting Last Supper, as the grail was MM herself, depicted on Jesus' right hand in drag as young John "the Evangelist." Da Vinci being a believer in this heresy, as were Botticelli and other Florentines of the day. The grail was supposed to hold the holy blood, as Mary as the "vessel" of Jesus' bloodline, would have done.

There was some good coverage of the gnostic gospels pertinent to this topic, the Gospel of Mary (Magdelene) and the Gospel of Philip.

There was a brief touching on the role of the Knights Templar as protectors of the Holy Grail and the Grail family.

There was nothing about the Cathar Inqusition and extermination.

And the final points were made that Mary M was more impt in the early centuries of the church, as the Catholics still call her, the apostola apostolorum (Apostle to the Apostles), but was later discredited as a prostitute. (Altho the idea of a prostitute does fit in to the gnostic myth of Sophia, IMO.) And finally, in the 20th century, cleared of this appelation.

So, if you like, further reading :

Holy Blood Holy Grail
The Da Vinci Code
The Woman with the Alabaster Jar
The Jesus Mysteries
Beyond Belief
The Other Bible

[Tracy]

Sadly I fell asleep for the last fifteen minutes.
But I think it should have been two hours long. I felt it was lacking a bit. Like you Darlll I too read Holy Blood HOly Grail so I would have liked a bit more of that information.

certainly the church down there in the south of france with that wild priest and where all the great thinkers would show up.... Everyone made a sabbatical to that place.

I think it is insane to say that is not a woman in The Last Supper. It totally was in my estimation.

by the way, I recall the line of blood being the Hapsburgs...no?

[DaryLLL]

Originally posted by trabot
.

by the way, I recall the line of blood being the Hapsburgs...no?

You mean the Merovingians? The legend is that one of the first first Mervongians, Merovee, is reputed to have been conceived by his mother, who went swimming while pg and was repregnated by a sea creature, a fish (the first symbol of Jesus). Not that Jesus was still around then, but one of his descendants started this French royal family, which was later wiped out by order of the Pope.

Don't forget a new character in Matrix Reloaded was called the Merovingian. He'll be back this week!

[Irishmommy]

My understanding is that the Hebrew? word for virgin and the word for girl were very similar, and that originally Mary was just a young girl, and not specifically a virgin, then or for ever.

[DaryLLL]

Irishmommy, what I understand is the so-called prophecy (in Isaiah, Hebrew Scriptures) that a virgin would bive birth to some sort of savior figure was mistranslated when the Hebrew Scriptures were translated into Greek in around 300ish BCE. This book was called the Septuagint. What should have been "young girl"or maiden (almah) was wrongly translated as virgin (parthenos). (Bethulah is the Hebrew for virgin.) Then the evangelists interpreted this as a prediction about Jesus' birth as Messiah about 600 yrs later.

BTW, it is extremely common in pagan myth for a god or goddess to mate with a mortal and conceive a hero.

BTW again, this is a thread about Mary Magdelene, not the mother...

So, back on topic: one other episode from the Bible not covered in the show was the wedding at Cana. It is speculated that was Jesus' own wedding, or why else would he and his mother be so concerned about running out of wine?

And of course, he is continually referred to as a bridegroom.

[Megan_Cherry]

opps double post

[Megan_Cherry]

Remind me where I can read about the wedding and the water to wine thing again.
That is very true that Jesus is referred to as the bridegroom. Its exciting to think that Jesus was more like the rest of humanity than we thoght. Did this sinless man feel lust, love and commitment to another woman?
I agree with what that preist said about Christianity having an unhealthy view on sex. I can see how the truth may have been manipulated to serve the agendas of the vatican.
I know that some people could say that Jesus' marital status is not what we should focus on. But a commitment like marriage is defining to our total being.

[Tracy]

re: jesus siblings..

"According to the Gospels, Jesus had several "brothers and sisters" (see "Mary" for possible meanings), but James and Jude are the only ones mentioned elsewhere in the New Testament—James as a leader of the early church in Jerusalem, and Jude in the short letter bearing his name. Originally, Jesus' family was skeptical of his ministry: "Even his brothers did not believe in him," says John's Gospel. Apparently the Resurrection changed their minds, because they joined Mary and the disciples in the Upper Room to wait for the Holy Spirit.

James, probably the oldest of Jesus' brothers, made the decision at the Jerusalem Council that Gentile Christians did not have to obey ancient Jewish laws. He may have lived an ascetic life and was reported to have spent so much time in prayer that his knees "were like those of a camel." Jewish historian Josephus reported that Jewish leaders stoned James to death. Eusebius said he was thrown from the top of the temple and beaten to death with a club. It is unclear whether this James or another wrote the epistle bearing his name."

it goes on...

http://www.ctlibrary.com/ch/1998/59/59h035.html




darylll I thought I read somewhere that the blood line of the Merovingians married into the Hapsburgs... I can't for the life of me remember where I read that, I would have guessed holy blood/holy grail...but maybe it was somewhere else... or of course, I have just got it all wrong, which is VERY possible.

[merpk]

DaryLLL ... tiny point ... you were close; the Hebrew word for "tower" is "migdal."

[DaryLLL]

Originally posted by Megan_Cherry
Remind me where I can read about the wedding and the water to wine thing again.
That is very true that Jesus is referred to as the bridegroom.

John 2, Megan.

[Irishmommy]

Originally posted by kama'aina mama
...Many people believe that Jesus had younger siblings. That even if you believe in the Virgin Birth (which again, not all Christian do) it is possible that at some time after the Nativity their marriage became a real one.

I knew I wasn't imagining things!!

DaryLLL, this is what I was answering in my last post!!!

I did (honest!), know that you were talking about Mara Magdalene.

[luckylady]

I enjoyed the show. I LOVED the book (DaVinci Code). i do totally believe that MM was "erased" from teh bible to further the male agenda of the day. I found a great website with lots of writing and stuff if you are interested in learning more.

As a fallen catholic, I find it comforting to think that Jesus had a female partner is his ministry - the yin/yang balance. it just makes more sense to me.

http://www.magdalene.org/contents.htm