Autism and no vaccinations

[Lollicup]

Do you know of a child who has developed Autism, but had never been vaccinated? Just wondering if you know of any.

[Ophelia]

No, but this thread may be of interest:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=538469

Also remember that other things can factor in also. For example, if a child was not vaccinated but his mother received the Rhogam shot during and after pg (and then BF'd), that could have caused problems since Rhogam did (still does?) have mercury.

Keep in mind that there are quite possibly other environmental triggers (mercury from eating fish, mercury in the air from coal burning, mercury dental fillings in the mother, chemicals and pesticides, etc)

[tayndrewsmama]

I do.

[xmasbaby7]

For me, the real question is, do we know of any children with autism who have had a chance to develop naturally with an intact immune system?

-Those mothers would have had no medications, shots or antibiotics during pregnancy or birth, and no other medical interventions (pain meds, or pitocin, etc.) duringa vaginal birth.

-The children would have received no vaccines, medicines, or formula and would have exclusively breastfed for at least six months.

These children would have had their gut flora in their digestive tract fully developed as it was meant to and should be very strong.

It isn't just the vaccines that is making our children immunocompromised. It is modern hospital birth.

[Lollicup]

Well, I unfortunately had to be hospitalized in L&D for 2 days because I came down with a kidney infection at about 28 weeks. I remember thinking that the hospital birthing experience wasn't for me as I could hear things going on down the hall. But, at that point I had to be hooked up to IV with antibiotics and dehydrating bag (sorry, I don't remember the exact name). From what I understand the dextrose solution in the bags contain aluminum. Is this true? I had a home birth.

Also, I just had my baby get her 2 shot. It was the DTaP, and from what I understand it has no aluminum, but has <0.3 of mercury -- great! I discussed my concern with my doctor as she pretty much brushed me off. She has had HIB before, but I think I may be done with shots for good.

I'm thinking, the antibiotics crossed the placenta and disrupted my baby's digestive system?

[carriebft]

The DTaP brands available do have aluminum in them. I found the Dr Sears Vaccine Book to be good on the vaccine ingredients but make sure its the updated version.

[stacey05]

Oh great...I had the rogham (sp?) shot during and after pregnancy. Plus, I am breastfeeding! None of my others children have autism and I received the shot with them too....but, I did not bf them as long as I am bf'ing this one (one yo). I thought I was doing something good by bf'ing him...should I be worried??? (no vaxes for this one, though)

Stacey

[sbgrace]

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...light=vaccines

Please take a look at this thread. The exact same question was asked not long ago in the special needs forum. Yes, there are unvaccinated (and protected from everything possible) kids with autism. Some of them have parents on this board who replied to the above thread. Autism is genetic. There are 139 replies (I think) and lots of examples of unvaccinated autistic kids. There are also examples of parents who did everything "right" (no vaccines, no antibiotics, exclusive breastfeeding, organic food, etc. etc.) and yet the child still ended up with autism. It's irritating to see parents "blamed" but I think it's because we want to think that it couldn't happen to us if we just do the right things. That thought has already been expressed on this thread. If you want the truth read the thread referenced above.

I have one autistic child and one typically developing. They were twins so had the same birth. But they were fraternal, have different genetics, and so one is autistic and the other isn't. Twin studies on autism are interesting. A fraternal twin is no more likely to be autistic if one twin is on the spectrum than any other sibling born to those parents (any child's rate is around 25% if a sibling has autism). Same birth and pregnancy. No increased risk. With identical twins there is a well over 90% chance that if one twin is autistic the other will also be on the spectrum. Genetics plays a huge role in autism.

Is your kiddo autistic or are you worried about that? If so you might check out the special needs board--lots of us there!

[moderngal]

yes, I do.
I know a woman that has 3 children- 1 was vaxed and is fine, 1 is vaxed and has autism, and her youngest received no vaxes and has autism.

[ZoeyZoo]

I personally believe it is a combination of genetic and environmental factors. I think there are genes that make people more suspectable to autism and that certain environmental factors can impeed/alter processes within the brain causing autism and turning those genes on. The environmental factors have really become an increasing burden on the immune system as the autism rate rises. For example think of all the irradation, pesticides, antibiotics, hormones, additional vaxes, etc. that are now present in our environment and food that weren't there 10, 20, or 30 years ago.

I don't think vaxes are the sole source of autism but I think they're contributing to it.

[Deborah]

One reason vaccines stand out as a cause for some parents may be that vaccines come in bunches.

We breathe, eat, play with toys and drink water sort of gradually. For most babies vaccines are one of the only times that a lot of toxic stuff is dumped into the system all at one time. So a child may be on the verge from a generally toxic environment and an inadequate diet, but then 6 or 8 or 9 vaccines at once come in as the last piece in the wall and end up looking like the main cause. Would a child have been able to dodge the diagnosis without the vaccines? Maybe, maybe not. If things are bad enough in the general environment, the diagnosis might be inevitable, but somewhat delayed.

On the other hand, for some children, without the vaccines, they might still have severe health problems, but muddle along, somewhat functionally.

[amnesiac]

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=661319

[kristin1924]

Originally Posted by xmasbaby7

For me, the real question is, do we know of any children with autism who have had a chance to develop naturally with an intact immune system?

-Those mothers would have had no medications, shots or antibiotics during pregnancy or birth, and no other medical interventions (pain meds, or pitocin, etc.) duringa vaginal birth.

-The children would have received no vaccines, medicines, or formula and would have exclusively breastfed for at least six months.

These children would have had their gut flora in their digestive tract fully developed as it was meant to and should be very strong.

It isn't just the vaccines that is making our children immunocompromised. It is modern hospital birth.

I agree with this. I do believe that my daughter's type-1 diabetes was caused by a pre-disposition/sensitivity added with a vaccine injury she had to a two-in-one combo shot, but it's also been mentioned to me that the epidural and/or the meds they used for my vaginal birth could have zapped her pancreas... I'll never find out, but I really want to hear more on what you think. It's all very interesting. And how the HECK can I get the guts to have an at-home birth with no meds for my next baby???

[CanidFL]

Originally Posted by stacey05

Oh great...I had the rogham (sp?) shot during and after pregnancy. Plus, I am breastfeeding! None of my others children have autism and I received the shot with them too....but, I did not bf them as long as I am bf'ing this one (one yo). I thought I was doing something good by bf'ing him...should I be worried??? (no vaxes for this one, though)

Stacey

There is a mercury free version also. I had this from my midwife. Call up your doc/midwife and get the brand name so you can look it up online.

Originally Posted by sbgrace

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...light=vaccines

Autism is genetic. There are 139 replies (I think) and lots of examples of unvaccinated autistic kids. There are also examples of parents who did everything "right" (no vaccines, no antibiotics, exclusive breastfeeding, organic food, etc. etc.) and yet the child still ended up with autism. It's irritating to see parents "blamed" but I think it's because we want to think that it couldn't happen to us if we just do the right things. That thought has already been expressed on this thread. If you want the truth read the thread referenced above.

Wow. Just because a person believes vaccines caused autism does not mean the parent is being blamed. There are also thousands of parents who believe there children were perfectly healthy, got their shots then a few months later had full blown autism. You can not discount these parents and what they know to be true. Yes, autism may be genetic in some cases and enviromental in others. No one really knows the truth until they actually study this.

[xmasbaby7]

Originally Posted by sbgrace

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...light=vaccines

Please take a look at this thread. The exact same question was asked not long ago in the special needs forum. Yes, there are unvaccinated (and protected from everything possible) kids with autism. Some of them have parents on this board who replied to the above thread. Autism is genetic. There are 139 replies (I think) and lots of examples of unvaccinated autistic kids. There are also examples of parents who did everything "right" (no vaccines, no antibiotics, exclusive breastfeeding, organic food, etc. etc.) and yet the child still ended up with autism. It's irritating to see parents "blamed" but I think it's because we want to think that it couldn't happen to us if we just do the right things. That thought has already been expressed on this thread. If you want the truth read the thread referenced above.

I have one autistic child and one typically developing. They were twins so had the same birth. But they were fraternal, have different genetics, and so one is autistic and the other isn't. Twin studies on autism are interesting. A fraternal twin is no more likely to be autistic if one twin is on the spectrum than any other sibling born to those parents (any child's rate is around 25% if a sibling has autism). Same birth and pregnancy. No increased risk. With identical twins there is a well over 90% chance that if one twin is autistic the other will also be on the spectrum. Genetics plays a huge role in autism.

Is your kiddo autistic or are you worried about that? If so you might check out the special needs board--lots of us there!

Personally, I don't blame parents AT ALL. I blame the obstetricians and pediatricians who are failing American families with poor health policy.

I completely agree that genetics plays a huge component as to whom will injured by vaccines, who will show symptoms without vaccination.

But I read that thread you linked to a while ago, too, and it no way covers all of the factors I discuss in my first post in this thread.

[sbgrace]

Originally Posted by xmasbaby7

Personally, I don't blame parents AT ALL. I blame the obstetricians and pediatricians who are failing American families with poor health policy.

I completely agree that genetics plays a huge component as to whom will injured by vaccines, who will show symptoms without vaccination.

But I read that thread you linked to a while ago, too, and it no way covers all of the factors I discuss in my first post in this thread.

The issue I have is your list...you write it as if the "to blame" person--OB/ped, whatever--had just done what you listed autism would not have happened. It's just not true.
Did you read reply 25 on your list? What was wrong with non-vaccinated, breastfed to three, no injections/meds during pregnancy, home birthed, third pregnancy (first two produced typical kids).

Some will then say it must be mom's vaccines as a child...enter no vaccine's as a child mom number 35.


There have been threads in the past with even more "compelling" stories of moms who having had an autistic child bought into all those theories and even when beyond what you mentioned and....still had another autistic child. This is just the most recent.

I do agree that autism is a mix of genetic and environment (sometimes at least--not always) but as I said if you want to "blame" pregnancy, birth, and post-birth environment the twin studies thing blows that away in my opinion. If the pregnancy/birth/post-birth were that important the would at least be a small increase in fraternal twins both having autism over other siblings in unrelated pregnancies. The rate, though, is the same. It just doesn't make sense/match with science. The environmental factors that are "causes" for most of these kids aren't the ones you mentioned. I will write more about those factors later.

And what bothers me about that is that it gives a person a false sense of security at the least. I really believed that I couldn't have an autistic child if I did the right things...even my OB told me that exclusively breastfed kids can't have autism.

CanidFL (and xmasbaby)...most of the kids with regression probably have underlying metabolic conditions (like mitochondrial disorder) that cause regression. There are plenty of kids like mine who regress around 18 months to two years without vaccines. I guess had my son regressed after vaccines I would have thought he was damaged by them too. Turns out he has a mitochondrial condition as do possibly 25% of people on the spectrum. Another large percent probably have genes that cause them to have issues with glutimate processing. Glutimate is in all protein foods. Not much you can do to avoid protein. I saw a study with fetuses later diagnosed with autism there was a much higher circulating testosterone level in those babies in pregnancy in every one of the later autism but none of the not autism group had high levels. Nothing you can do about that either but it is a pregnancy environmental impact. My point is I agree autism is often partly genetic. But the environmental factors that impact the majority (not all) as "causes" along with genes are much, much bigger than pollution/gut health/vaccines. We don't have as much control as we like to believe.

[CanidFL]

Originally Posted by sbgrace

We don't have as much control as we like to believe.

amen to that

[GoBecGo]

I know 3 and 2 fit this

-Those mothers would have had no medications, shots or antibiotics during pregnancy or birth, and no other medical interventions (pain meds, or pitocin, etc.) duringa vaginal birth.

-The children would have received no vaccines, medicines, or formula and would have exclusively breastfed for at least six months.

These children would have had their gut flora in their digestive tract fully developed as it was meant to and should be very strong.

perfectly, in fact even MOM wasn't vax and was born without drugs at home. Autism happens, no-one knows why yet (they're getting closer). By all means don't vax if you feel it is a risk but do not think for a second that not vaxing is a magic bullet against autism, because it is not.

[lotusdebi]

Originally Posted by sbgrace

We don't have as much control as we like to believe.

ITA with sbgrace. The part I quoted is what I hope everyone who reads this thread keeps in mind. I believe that my DS1 has Asperger's. I also believe that my father had Asperger's. It seems to be just another genetic trait in my family. I think there are plenty of reasons to decide against vaccinations. I don't think that Autism needs to be included among them. I, personally, find that offensive.

[CanidFL]

Originally Posted by lotusdebi

I think there are plenty of reasons to decide against vaccinations. I don't think that Autism needs to be included among them. I, personally, find that offensive.

I'm sorry you feel that way and I don't mean to be offensive. Many mothers including me have autism on their list of reasons not to vax. It's not the MAIN reason but definitaly a factor. I guess I could turn the tables and say people who refuse to see a connection between vaccines and autism are highly offensive the parents that believe vaccines triggered autism in their child.