Letter to LLL - Page 2

[mama24-7]

Haven't I seen ads somewhere for a company that will give you a tent to put up at a community event, something for baby changing & nursing? I believe those are private tents.

I agree w/ PP'ers who have said that it may be those organizing the entire thing saying mothers have to nurse behind the tent & it may be that the Leader(s) are told that they have to say that in order to have the tent there. Perhaps it's the Leader(s) organizing it figure it's better to be there, w/ the tent, w/ those silly rules, & being able to meet mothers & give out info than to not be there at all?

I'd be interested to see what the response is, if the Leader has time to respond.

Sus

[mama2mygirl]

Originally Posted by Livviesmom0207

I'm the volunteer from last year at that fair that was told I HAD to nurse DD behind the curtain....I LOVE that letter.

I think this is horrible.
However, I have no objection to a quiet curtained area to nurse. Add air conditioning and it would be heaven. But I think it should be a choice to sit there.

[miche28]

This is such a tough subject - on the one hand, I totally agree that it's not helping to normalize BF when mothers are segregated. On the other, there are some women who simply don't feel comfortable (for whatever reason) BF in a public space and not having a quiet place might mean that they don't attend at all or bottlefeed their baby instead.

LLL is in a tough place with these kinds of issues - because is it better to not be out there at all or be there but with an imperfect solution? Public events like this can be so effective at reaching mothers who don't know about LLL or aren't likely to attend a meeting that I cut groups a fair amount of slack in balancing the situation.

My LLL chapter attended a baby fair in the spring (and will again in the fall) and while there was a nursing area, we also ended up with a number of moms who wanted to use our booth space to nurse in (totally open and very busy). This time I think we'll have to have a more comfortable chair!

[NZmumof2]

I'm also a voice against the majority of women wanting to nurse in private. I want to be an active part of my community. I nurse walking down the street, in the park, on the edge of the pool and anywhere else dd needs to be nursed. I walked into my brother's funeral last week nursing my baby facing a crowd of over 500 people. I think if we all lived in communities where this was commonplace we would have far fewer women wanting somewhere private to nurse. I won't be excluded from community events for the 4 years each of my kids has wanted nurse frequently. And when they hit the frequent unlatching / look around phase people just get to see my nipples - not that scary I promise!

[annie_noah]

I also have trouble believing that the majority of women want a private space to nurse.

[Swan3]

Originally Posted by NZmumof2

I'm also a voice against the majority of women wanting to nurse in private. I want to be an active part of my community. I nurse walking down the street, in the park, on the edge of the pool and anywhere else dd needs to be nursed. I walked into my brother's funeral last week nursing my baby facing a crowd of over 500 people. I think if we all lived in communities where this was commonplace we would have far fewer women wanting somewhere private to nurse. I won't be excluded from community events for the 4 years each of my kids has wanted nurse frequently. And when they hit the frequent unlatching / look around phase people just get to see my nipples - not that scary I promise!

Although I agree that more women should want to NIP there may be issues other than just not wanting to NIP. I do anyway but do feel uncomfortable baring my belly and with these girls there's no way I feel I can nurse and walk down the street! But good on you!

With these tents I know I've seen them sold as a comfy place to nurse where there are otherwise no chairs...something to consider.

I hate that anyone would be told they HAD to nurse behind a curtain though...

[mags]

Originally Posted by MCKH

ITA with you that moms should nurse wherever they feel comfortable doing so, be it out in the open for all to view or in a private nursing area if that suits them better. However, LLL Leaders are already overworked and underappreciated. Do you know that the average Leader resigns her title within 5 years? I don't think your particular Leader was trying to make anyone feel like they HAD to nurse in the private tent. I would definitely give her a break. JMO.

: To the OP-

I think it is amazing (in a good way) that your LLL even put up a tent like that! Our LLL is so small and so poor we don't even have the woman power or resources to man a booth/tent like that. If I saw a tent like that in our area, I would faint, b/c stuff like that just wouldn't happen around here, even if it isn't the, "ideal" tent.

If I were a LLL leader that received a letter like that, I would bawl my eyes out and throw in the towel. Seriously. You don't know all the circumstances as to why the booth was set up that way. To send out a letter like that to a LLL leader in an accusatory and condescending nature (I mean, geez, all that info you included in your, "letter," your LLL leader knows all that info, you're talking down to her, she's not an idiot!) just sucks! Do you know how much time, effort, and $$$$ out of your own pocket it takes to be a LLL leader???? How about instead of criticizing your LLL leader, taking the time to write a long letter and having ppl online critique it, you go through the process of applying to become a LLL leader???? You become a LLL co-leader to HELP and SUPPORT your LLL leader with things like this and to work with her, instead of sending some letter to let her know exactly how disappointing the LLL tent was to you and then tack on at the end that, "IF" she makes changes, you will volunteer again! :

I'm sorry, but this letter is just rude and un-lactivist if you ask me! If you send a letter like this to your LLL leader, or any LLL leader as far as I am concerned, what you will most likely accomplish is to break her spirit. As a LLL leader myself, I would be both crushed and outraged to recieve a letter of this nature, and worst of all from one of my own members!!!! LLL is not perfect, we try the best that we can with what little we have. PLEASE, if you have an issue don't write her a nasty letter, talk with her about it in a gentle way. She would probably welcome the feedback and you may even find out that certain things were out of her control. I can definitely tell you that she will not take it well if you send THAT letter to her. I don't think anyone would.

[scraphappy-Red]

Originally Posted by mags

If I were a LLL leader that received a letter like that, I would bawl my eyes out and throw in the towel. Seriously. You don't know all the circumstances as to why the booth was set up that way. To send out a letter like that to a LLL leader in an accusatory and condescending nature (I mean, geez, all that info you included in your, "letter," your LLL leader knows all that info, you're talking down to her, she's not an idiot!) just sucks! Do you know how much time, effort, and $$$$ out of your own pocket it takes to be a LLL leader???? How about instead of criticizing your LLL leader, taking the time to write a long letter and having ppl online critique it, you go through the process of applying to become a LLL leader???? You become a LLL co-leader to HELP and SUPPORT your LLL leader with things like this and to work with her, instead of sending some letter to let her know exactly how disappointing the LLL tent was to you and then tack on at the end that, "IF" she makes changes, you will volunteer again! :

I'm sorry, but this letter is just rude and un-lactivist if you ask me! If you send a letter like this to your LLL leader, or any LLL leader as far as I am concerned, what you will most likely accomplish is to break her spirit. As a LLL leader myself, I would be both crushed and outraged to recieve a letter of this nature, and worst of all from one of my own members!!!! LLL is not perfect, we try the best that we can with what little we have. PLEASE, if you have an issue don't write her a nasty letter, talk with her about it in a gentle way. She would probably welcome the feedback and you may even find out that certain things were out of her control. I can definitely tell you that she will not take it well if you send THAT letter to her. I don't think anyone would.

Thank you for saying this!

[annie_noah]

Originally Posted by mags

I'm sorry, but this letter is just rude and un-lactivist if you ask me! If you send a letter like this to your LLL leader, or any LLL leader as far as I am concerned, what you will most likely accomplish is to break her spirit. As a LLL leader myself, I would be both crushed and outraged to recieve a letter of this nature, and worst of all from one of my own members!!!! LLL is not perfect, we try the best that we can with what little we have. PLEASE, if you have an issue don't write her a nasty letter, talk with her about it in a gentle way. She would probably welcome the feedback and you may even find out that certain things were out of her control. I can definitely tell you that she will not take it well if you send THAT letter to her. I don't think anyone would.

I think that in a community of liked-minded people, there is room for us to make suggestions for improvement to our approach. Perhaps some of the wording in the letter could be changed to ensure that it doesn't come across as accusatory and instead talks about the things that we can do together to make nursing in public more acceptable, but I do think it is fair to write a letter of that sort. Not everyone has the time to go through the process to become a leader (many of us volunteer our time in other ways), but I don't think that means that we have no right to critique and to make suggestions for improvement.

I've been a manager and a leader in business and recreational contexts for a long time and if I was crushed anytime someone made a suggestion for how I could improve things, I would have thrown in the towel a long time ago. Instead I embrace suggestions, I empower people that bring good ideas into a team, and I encourage feedback.

Originally Posted by Swan3

Although I agree that more women should want to NIP there may be issues other than just not wanting to NIP. I do anyway but do feel uncomfortable baring my belly and with these girls there's no way I feel I can nurse and walk down the street! But good on you!

I agree that nursing while walking down the street takes a lot of coordination. I can do it with a ring sling, but only after years of practice!

However, with regards to the baring the belly, there are a few quick solutions I have learned that allowed me to tuck away my belly fat, but still nurse in public. Immediately PP, I often wore a Bella Band under my shirt. That not only hid the belly fat, but also helped to keep it under control, so that it wasn't flabbing all over as I walked around. Now what I more often do is to wear a tank top under a t-shirt. I then pull down the tank top and pull up the other shirt to nurse so that my belly is not exposed. Wearing a nursing top is another solution.

I understand that not all moms are comfortable nursing in public, but I think it is important that more of us do so that people start to see it as normal. That's why I'll always offer suggestions to allow women to deal with any insecurities they have about NIP.

[Koloe]

Originally Posted by annie_noah

I also have trouble believing that the majority of women want a private space to nurse.

I think for mothers with newborns who are just starting to nurse and haven't figured out how to latch the baby on easily yet this is likely to be true. I know I didn't like nursing around strangers when I first started nursing. But once I figured out how to be a bit more discreet (i.e. I didn't need my shirt wide open to see everything. ) I don't usually like being segregated because my DD nursed all the time for a very long time.

[MizLiz]

Originally Posted by mags

: To the OP-

I think it is amazing (in a good way) that your LLL even put up a tent like that! Our LLL is so small and so poor we don't even have the woman power or resources to man a booth/tent like that. If I saw a tent like that in our area, I would faint, b/c stuff like that just wouldn't happen around here, even if it isn't the, "ideal" tent.

If I were a LLL leader that received a letter like that, I would bawl my eyes out and throw in the towel. Seriously. You don't know all the circumstances as to why the booth was set up that way. To send out a letter like that to a LLL leader in an accusatory and condescending nature (I mean, geez, all that info you included in your, "letter," your LLL leader knows all that info, you're talking down to her, she's not an idiot!) just sucks! Do you know how much time, effort, and $$$$ out of your own pocket it takes to be a LLL leader???? How about instead of criticizing your LLL leader, taking the time to write a long letter and having ppl online critique it, you go through the process of applying to become a LLL leader???? You become a LLL co-leader to HELP and SUPPORT your LLL leader with things like this and to work with her, instead of sending some letter to let her know exactly how disappointing the LLL tent was to you and then tack on at the end that, "IF" she makes changes, you will volunteer again! :

I'm sorry, but this letter is just rude and un-lactivist if you ask me! If you send a letter like this to your LLL leader, or any LLL leader as far as I am concerned, what you will most likely accomplish is to break her spirit. As a LLL leader myself, I would be both crushed and outraged to recieve a letter of this nature, and worst of all from one of my own members!!!! LLL is not perfect, we try the best that we can with what little we have. PLEASE, if you have an issue don't write her a nasty letter, talk with her about it in a gentle way. She would probably welcome the feedback and you may even find out that certain things were out of her control. I can definitely tell you that she will not take it well if you send THAT letter to her. I don't think anyone would.

I just retired from LLL (after 4 years as a Leader) and this post totally speaks to me...

Why not just phone the leader or talk to her face-to-face about your feelings about the nursing mothers tent... there is most likely some rationale behind this set up (and I`m not saying that this rationale should not be challenged), but I`m sure that she`d appreciate an opportunity to explain and discuss the reasoning behind this... perhaps there is no great reason, and she`ll appreciate a perspective that wasn`t considered.

In any case, a letter like this is close ended and has an accusatory tone. LLL works hard to promote breastfeeding, as we all know. Going after volunteers like this isn`t really constructive.

[Viola]

Originally Posted by miche28

LLL is in a tough place with these kinds of issues - because is it better to not be out there at all or be there but with an imperfect solution? Public events like this can be so effective at reaching mothers who don't know about LLL or aren't likely to attend a meeting that I cut groups a fair amount of slack in balancing the situation.

I think this is a good point. I think the letter is good, but it's possible they felt like it was a trade-off just to have a presence there at all. I think it is perfectly valid for you to say that you think this is a negative thing and maybe that LLL chapter should rethink doing it in the future; I think if you made the tone a little more conciliatory it would be better.

Also, if you could send a similar letter to the county fair organizers, that might be more useful.

[Leilamus]

Originally Posted by mags

: To the OP-

I think it is amazing (in a good way) that your LLL even put up a tent like that! Our LLL is so small and so poor we don't even have the woman power or resources to man a booth/tent like that. If I saw a tent like that in our area, I would faint, b/c stuff like that just wouldn't happen around here, even if it isn't the, "ideal" tent.

If I were a LLL leader that received a letter like that, I would bawl my eyes out and throw in the towel. Seriously. You don't know all the circumstances as to why the booth was set up that way. To send out a letter like that to a LLL leader in an accusatory and condescending nature (I mean, geez, all that info you included in your, "letter," your LLL leader knows all that info, you're talking down to her, she's not an idiot!) just sucks! Do you know how much time, effort, and $$$$ out of your own pocket it takes to be a LLL leader???? How about instead of criticizing your LLL leader, taking the time to write a long letter and having ppl online critique it, you go through the process of applying to become a LLL leader???? You become a LLL co-leader to HELP and SUPPORT your LLL leader with things like this and to work with her, instead of sending some letter to let her know exactly how disappointing the LLL tent was to you and then tack on at the end that, "IF" she makes changes, you will volunteer again! :

I'm sorry, but this letter is just rude and un-lactivist if you ask me! If you send a letter like this to your LLL leader, or any LLL leader as far as I am concerned, what you will most likely accomplish is to break her spirit. As a LLL leader myself, I would be both crushed and outraged to recieve a letter of this nature, and worst of all from one of my own members!!!! LLL is not perfect, we try the best that we can with what little we have. PLEASE, if you have an issue don't write her a nasty letter, talk with her about it in a gentle way. She would probably welcome the feedback and you may even find out that certain things were out of her control. I can definitely tell you that she will not take it well if you send THAT letter to her. I don't think anyone would.

: I think sometimes people forget that LLL is a non-profit and is able to function because of volunteers. All LLL Leaders are volunteers and we do it because we have a passion for breastfeeding and helping moms and their children. I really respect you for writing to your local chapter and wanting to change the set up but I think you might be more effective if you change your approach a bit. I do hope you contact your LLL and find out more about this situation and see if you and other moms in the area can make a positive change.

[Nicole77]

I just wanted to update that I have heard back from the leader. She has had the same thoughts and is pleased to report that this year the tent size is doubling and will hopefully be more open. So, that could be good progress and hopefully families will be welcomed into some areas of the tent at least. When a nursing mother's tent was hosted by the fair itself with no LLL assistance there were issues with unwelcome elements so it has of course been a good thing to see the LLL step in and make the booth more welcoming and safe.

Regarding comments, I want to reiterate that it is not the closed tent that I was feeling unhappy about. It was the idea that nursing should happen only behind the curtains, only in front of other nursing mothers. Obviously if you do not need/want a quiet space you could just as easily sit down at a table or bench anywhere in the fair. As evidenced by one poster's experience at this same fair last year, a closed off tent called a Nursing Mother's Tent where only nursing mothers are allowed can definitely lead some to believe that all breastfeeding should take place out of sight in the tent and then pressure mothers to be hidden while nursing. I understand that some of you disagree with this position but it is still one that makes me uncomfortable.

I do think that my letter could have been more positive than it was. I was having a bad morning when I wrote it and that may shine through unfortunately. I was certainly not intending to attack her or negate the good work that she and LLL have done and I apologize to any of you volunteers who may have felt that from the letter. I think that is important to challenge and question even the organizations that we support, pushing always for positive change forward (albeit in a positive way!), rather than just assuming that the best possible is being done and any questioning is out of line. JMNSHO!

I do hold LLL to a high standard and believe that diplomacy along with creativity can be used when faced with a situation where a location makes demands that you do not feel comfortable with. Again, a simple change of name when LLL took over to "Family Quiet Area" or something like that, along with a slight change of layout to include a large curtained area open to all parents with several chairs for feeding babies, a changing table, and a few small toys for older children, along with a smaller curtained area inside with a few chairs for those mothers who need extra privacy would be a creative way to provide the tent that the fair needs, information on breastfeeding, a bit of privacy for those who want it, and an atmosphere of normalcy and healthiness around breastfeeding. I know that this is a cultural goal that LLL already strives for on a daily basis and my concerns about this particular tent do not negate this. Thankfully, the LLL leader who received the letter at least seems to have taken it in the spirit it was intended.

[SheBear]

Well, a bit off-topic now, but I am glad I read this thread....I think I'll suggest setting up a booth/tent (or at least asking if we can) at the next county fair/baby expo in our area. And I'll volunteer, too!

Here's what I'd consider the "ideal"....an area that provides shade and some degree of privacy, with several folding camp chairs (much more comfy for nursing than folding metal chairs!), cold water, play area for toddlers/older kids, and a small, totally private spot for diaper changes. Also a private spot (with electrical outlet) for anyone who needed to pump. Maybe snacks (available for purchase? Maybe a bake sale to support the LLL chapter? Would depend on fair policies, of course....). Lots of fans, or AC if possible.

I'd call it "Family (or Parent) Comfort Station" or maybe use the word retreat/oasis/sanctuary, but in conjuction with family/parent, not mother/nursing.

Along with basic chapter information and basic bfing information, I'd offer little pocket cards that detail the breastfeeding laws for the state, and a few other bits of encouragement, etc. Free samples of relevant items if they could be obtained (nipple cream, diaper rash cream, nursing pads, etc.) and coupons for relevant items (Motherwear catalogs/coupons, etc).

A baby carrier display would be nifty, esp. if parents could try out a few different options!

A little goodie bag for toddlers/children would be cool...maybe a bf-friendly coloring book (we could make one, if there's not already something like that out there somewhere for free/cheap), stickers, temporary tattoos, etc.

And of course, a Tip jar!

wow, if all that was possible, it'd be the most popular booth of any fair!