Kindergarten Vaccines, please help!

[caricandothis]

Hi all! My dd is going for her Kindergarten physical this afternoon and I am gathering info to present to my ped as to why I would like to decline the vaccinations she is scheduled for.

She is set to get 4 vaccines:
5th dose of dtap
4th dose of polio
2nd dose of MMR
chicken pox

I've already told them that she will NOT be getting the chicken pox vaccine.

Can you answer these questions for me so that I have concrete answers to give to her? I am really bad about digesting information enough to recall it...I have a very difficult time with numbers and statistics etc etc etc.

MMR: My oldest son (13 yrs old) has JRA and cannot receive any live vaccines. His immune system is very compromised and I would think that IF my dd was to get it, it could pass on to him and cause him problems, right? Also, I am religiously against abortion and according to the research I have done, the MMR vaccine is made with human aborted fetal tissue, correct?

dtap: My older daughter received this vaccine and had a horrible reaction to it. She got cellulitis, it was awful. I've read that if you have a family history of adverse reaction that you shouldn't get this vaccine either, is that correct? I've read that it's not necessary and I totally buy that also. Should I tell them that I'll skip it for now and *IF* my dd is injured to where she might need a tetanus shot, I'd opt for the tetanus only shot?

Polio: Live version is out for reasons mentioned above. But the inactivated version contains formaldehyde and antifreeze (!!) and those aren't something I want traveling around in my dd's blood stream...am I correct there also?

I'm in NYS and am terrified at the thought of having to apply for a religious exemption. If my dr okays it, would a form from her be sufficient for school? Will they not allow my dd to go to school on Monday if I don't vaccinate her today? She's been fully vaccinated up until this point. I didn't start researching vaccines until my youngest (almost 2 yrs old) was almost a yr old. I regret having them all vax'd but I can't change the past, only the future.

Thank you for reading and for any and all info that you are willing to share with me. I truly appreciate this board!

Oh and also, I am pregnant (1st tri). Would these vaccines have any adverse reactions to my unborn baby *IF* she were to get them?

[tanyalynn]

Honestly, you don't need to defend your decision. Seriously. It's not worth the stress to you to try to convince your doctor and realistically, your doctor works for you. You pay them for a service and if you don't want the service, you just say no, sorta like the cable company always checking if I want more channels.

The dtap boosters are for the pertussis part--everybody assumes that the tetanus part lasts a long, long time (although some folks will point out that the baseline effectiveness is more assumed than you'd think, but that's not a booster issue). So I wouldn't worry about injuries based on lack of dtap boosters. (not that you need to argue this part with your doc, just so you don't worry)

Other folks will chime in with how to do religious exemptions in NY. I _do_ know that you shouldn't say a word about abortion, that is not legally considered a valid religious reason not to vaccinate (rational? no, but this is about the law). You need to be against the practice of vaccination, the actual idea of it, whatever the ingredients may or may not be.

My impression is that schools want all their records up-to-date within a reasonable amount of time after school starts, so although they'll say they need everything on the first day, there's usually some wiggle room (think of all the kids they send off to their doctors _after_ the first day to get more vaccines--they don't make those kids stay home until they've gotten all the doses).

Other parents have done this, and you can too.

[alegna]

You don't need to defend yourself. If you don't want them- just say no.

-Angela

[LotusBirthMama]

But the OP is in NYS and it is not fun to get a religious exemption there.

OP, I would try to have your doctor, based on family situation/history, write you a medical exemption.

[caricandothis]

Ah thank you so much for replying! And thank you for the advice about not mentioning the abortion thing.

So should I just say that "DD will not be getting her vaccinations today" and let it be? Not explain myself? What if (and I know she will) asks me for reasons?

I haven't taken my youngest DS back to this ped since his 12 month appt bc a) she forcibly retracted his foreskin : and b) she told me I'd *have* to get his HiB vax at 15 mos since I declined all his scheduled shots then. I just never made the appt bc he will not be getting that vaccine.

I hate confrontation and although I KNOW that I will be up for it since I've made this decision, I still dread it, yk?

[caricandothis]

Originally Posted by LotusBirthMama

But the OP is in NYS and it is not fun to get a religious exemption there.

OP, I would try to have your doctor, based on family situation/history, write you a medical exemption.

And that would be sufficient? I've tried reading thru the NYS vaccination requirements and exemptions page but holy head spinning, its difficult to understand.

If I cant' get one from her, maybe I could get one from another doctor or something. I am only about an hour from Ithaca, lol.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by LotusBirthMama

But the OP is in NYS and it is not fun to get a religious exemption there.

OP, I would try to have your doctor, based on family situation/history, write you a medical exemption.

Nope. Medical exemptions must be specific for THAT child. Not because of a family reaction. Skip the medical exemption.

A properly worded letter in NY is not that difficult.

-Angela

[alegna]

Originally Posted by caricandothis

Ah thank you so much for replying! And thank you for the advice about not mentioning the abortion thing.

So should I just say that "DD will not be getting her vaccinations today" and let it be? Not explain myself? What if (and I know she will) asks me for reasons?

Since you're in NY- if she asks say that you have come to understand that vaccination is against your religious beliefs. Do not answer further questions about why or what parts are against your religion.

-Angela

[caricandothis]

Just wanted to update that we are back from the appt and DD got NO SHOTS! Yay! I discussed my concerns with my ped (she's actually an NP but she's who we always see) and she totally agreed with me and said that skipping these boosters would be no big deal. She said that she'd write whatever letter she needed to write to the school stating that because of my older son's medical condition, she advises that the other children not be vaccinated (with the live vaccines). She's awesome!

She also said that our school district rarely requires anything but a note from the drs office stating why we've declined so yay!

Thanks so much for the encouragement, info and advice!

[spero]

Originally Posted by caricandothis

Just wanted to update that we are back from the appt and DD got NO SHOTS! Yay! I discussed my concerns with my ped (she's actually an NP but she's who we always see) and she totally agreed with me and said that skipping these boosters would be no big deal. She said that she'd write whatever letter she needed to write to the school stating that because of my older son's medical condition, she advises that the other children not be vaccinated (with the live vaccines).

That's great, but what concerns me is the other vaccines - IPV and Dtap aren't live vaxes. You're still going to need a religious exemption for those, if you plan to continue to decline them. (Right now children in NYS must have CP and Tdap boosters when they enter sixth grade, and I'm almost certain that the meningitis vaccine is gonna crawl into into the "required" schedule sooner or later - y'know, seeing how meningitis is now suddenly rampant on college campuses and all.)

She also said that our school district rarely requires anything but a note from the drs office stating why we've declined so yay!

Since this is NYS we're talking about, I'd confirm that with the school, ASAP. If that is indeed the case, you're going to have a lot of NYers wanting to move into your school district!

[spero]

Originally Posted by caricandothis

She also said that our school district rarely requires anything but a note from the drs office stating why we've declined so yay!

I've been thinking on this some more, and I just want to caution you about two things.

First, school exemption "information" from a doctor doesn't hold much water, in my book. It's become obvious to me, through my own experience as well as in reading posts here, that most docs actually know very little about vaccination laws and school exemptions; and that they are, in fact, passing around a whole lot of MISinformation. One mama recently posted that her doctor told her that her child's pre-K "couldn't make her" get the MMR - when, in fact, it is required by state law for entry into pre-K.

The second thing I want to address is what I've bolded above. If your child ever changes schools, that information can be shared, without your consent, with the new school according to Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) guidelines - which apply to the school setting specifically, and supersede HIPAA. (See this thread for more info.) If you have stated opposition to vaccines because of the specific reasons you listed in your first post, that is technically considered philosophical exemption and not allowed under NYS law. This could completely ruin your chances of getting a religious exemption in another school.

Just be very careful how you go about this. And be sure to update.

[emma1325]

"she will NOT be getting the chicken pox vaccine."


Use this line...just replace chicken pox with the rest of the vaccine names.

If they ask "why?" Say after thorough research you are not convinced of their short or long term safety. Period. No more discussion after this.

Repeat it a few times if you'd like...but go no further.

If they push and push, you can do this. Write up a contract stating that the doctor and clinic will accept any and all liability for any adverse vaccine reaction in your child...and tell the doctor your child can be vaccinated after he/she and the appropriate clinic/hospital administrator signs it. (They won't...and this will probably put a final end to the discussion.)

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by caricandothis

Just wanted to update that we are back from the appt and DD got NO SHOTS! Yay! I discussed my concerns with my ped (she's actually an NP but she's who we always see)

Problem #1: if she's not an MD her exemption won't fly in NY.

and she totally agreed with me and said that skipping these boosters would be no big deal. She said that she'd write whatever letter she needed to write to the school stating that because of my older son's medical condition, she advises that the other children not be vaccinated (with the live vaccines). She's awesome!

Problem #2: An exemption for child #1 based on child #2's reactions won't fly either. Problem #3: What about non-live vaccines?

She also said that our school district rarely requires anything but a note from the drs office stating why we've declined so yay!

Even if she were correct (and I'd never take exemption advice from a provider ) what if that "rarely" is YOU! You've just killed your chance for a religious exemption next year or for another school. I believe that NY requires yearly exemptions, though I'm not sure on that.

You should go to your tribe board and post there as well. You may find someone from your district.

_____________________________________________

Your religious beliefs can change, so you can exempt a previously vaxed child. You could also pretend your child is not vaxed to make life easier.


Some states, like NY and NJ allow the state to question the sincerity of your beliefs; the following is VERY important.



-For a religious exemption you need to be "against the practice of vaccination". If you give your reasons to be against vaccinations as:

"I'm against vaccination because they use aborted fetal cells" - This is a philosophical reason.

"I'm against pre-marital sex and some vaxes are for sexually transmitted diseases." This is a philosophical reason.

Again, you have to be against the the practice of vaccination. For a more through explanation of why this is read the Wexler decision below.

-Also, you DO NOT have to be a member of a religion doctrinally opposed to vaccination. You can be Wiccan, Lutheran, Catholic, Jewish, church of the flip flops, and still claim a religious exemption do to your personal religious beliefs against the practice of vaccination. Dr. Mercola does a good job of explaining this in my Religious Exemptions link below (you may have to register to read it).

-One more thing, you do not want to include specific biblical verses as your interpretation could be challenged. You need to describe your personal religious beliefs.


-Require that all questions regarding your exemption be in writing and give answers in writing. Do not give verbal responses.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Religious Exemptions

The Wexler Decision

To find out what exemptions are offered by your state (for school and such) check here:
http://www.nvic.org/state-site/state-exemptions.htm
http://www.novaccine.com/law-exemptions/


All states except West Virginia and Mississippi offer religious and/or philosophical exemptions, and the supreme court ruled that you do not have to belong to a non-vaxing religion or have clergy sign your religious exemption. Exemptions can be submitted in lieu of vaccination records (I would do it this way).

State mandatory vaccination laws have their roots in the 1905 U.S. Supreme Court decision, Jacobsen v Massachusetts. A Swedish Lutheran pastor, Reverend Henning Jacobsen and his son objected to a law requiring revaccination with smallpox vaccine because they had suffered severe reactions to the first vaccination. The nine Supreme Court justices at the turn of the century denied Jacobsen and his lawyers the right to present scientific evidence for harm caused by the smallpox vaccine, preferring to believe the lawyers representing public health officials who convinced them that doctors could predict ahead of time who would be injured by vaccination.

100wds.



A US Federal Court ruling (binding on NY only) that determined that you do not have to belong to a particular religion to use a religious exemption is:
Sherr v. Northport-East Northport Union Free Sch. Dist., 672 F. Supp. 81, 89-90 (E.D. N.Y. 1987)
http://www.vaclib.org/exempt/consent.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/...es_chptr13.htm

Sample Religious Exemption Letter

Quote:
To whom it may concern;



(We / I) {First and Last name(s)}, as the {(parent (s) / guardian(s)} of ______________________(name of newborn child) are exercising (our/my) rights under the US Constitution, PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, ARTICLE 21. CONTROL OF ACUTE COMMUNICABLE DISEASES,TITLE VI. POLIOMYELITIS AND OTHER DISEASES, NY CLS Pub Health § 2164 (2002), to receive Religious Exemption from Vaccination, ALL injections, prophylaxis, & testing due to our genuine and sincere religious beliefs which are contrary to the practices herein required.

US Federal Court held in Sherr v. Northport-East Northport Union Free Sch. Dist., 672 F. Supp. 81, 89-90 (E.D. N.Y. 1987), that a religious belief is subject to protection even though no religious group espouses such beliefs or the fact that the religious group to which the individual professes to belong may not advocate or require such belief. Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as amended Nov. 1, 1980; Part 1605.1-Guidelines on Discrimination Because of Religion.

Sincerely,

Your signature.
Date

[spero]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II

I believe that NY requires yearly exemptions, though I'm not sure on that.

Nope, you don't have to re-submit the request for exemption each year, as long as you stay in the same school district.

[A&A]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

Honestly, you don't need to defend your decision. Seriously. It's not worth the stress to you to try to convince your doctor and realistically, your doctor works for you. You pay them for a service and if you don't want the service, you just say no, sorta like the cable company always checking if I want more channels.

.

: